Matthew 10:34-38 becomes a disturbing reality when you begin following Jesus

reply to post by jmdewey60


See, I don't conform to the idea that there is some malevolent entity that feeds off of souls. The only malevolent entity that I believe in is man and his greed for more money and more power.

The bible is only a telling of what man's greatest pitfall is: greed. There were hundreds of empires that came before the bible was written, and the bible built its stories off of what happened in the past, nothing more.

The god in the bible is nature, the way of things, not some judgemental man who sits in the sky. It all depends on how you interpret what the bible says in what form the message comes in. Some prefer to read it as a literary story where everything that is written is what actually happened. I prefer to read it literally, but I also read it in a different context, a context that is based within reality, and my interpretation of what the bible says makes perfect sense when judged beside the natural order of things.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

. . . my interpretation of what the bible says makes perfect sense when judged beside the natural order of things.

I'm not sure what that interpretation is exactly.
I know you are saying the universe is perfect, so I am saying the opposite, that the universe careens about as it is swept in the wind of the serpent that spins in a great circle around all creation. It is what created the material universe and it is part of it and as long as it keeps causing things to swirl about, we are not safe and are subject to misfortune we can not escape.
The spirit is what holds our souls together and the great spirit is God who is not part of creation by having no dependency on the material for His existence. We being of a physical nature to live in interface with the material are dependent but the purely physical fails us and can not keep our souls together.
We are spirit and physical so when the material universe captures our bodies to take it down the natural process, our souls get captured as well and are stuck in the earth. So the earth and nature and the universe are not exactly our friends though they provide a place of habitation at least for a bit of time in the current state of the existence of creation. God being pure spirit is able to grab our spiritual selves and to free it from a prison of being a mere shade in the depths of Hades, and take us to air and light and wind (otherwise known as spirit).
Paul says some day the universe will be better but I have no idea how long that will take. Meanwhile we ask God to sustain us until that day.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
If Satan can come and go as he pleases and even masquerades as an angel of light, how can you be so sure Christianity is not a work of Satan?

There are two Gods in our world. Both of them does miracles, heals the sick, brings forth wisdom, blessings (spiritual and material), spiritual gifts (gift of tongues) etc. Both are powerful and very involved in humanly affairs. But one of them is masquerading as a Benevolent God but is a false God and his doctrine will lead to destruction in the day of the judgement.

If you hear any Christian Church preach any of these, they're probably worshiping NOT the same God Jesus calls Father:

- It's okay to pursue your dreams, become a software engineer for Microsoft after all as a Christian, God will bless the works of your hands and prosper you in everything

- It's okay to dream for a better life and workout a plan to fulfill it

- God's will is to bless (materially) his children (what about the martyred saints, the disciples who lived in poverty??)

- If you obey God, and be righteous, He will grant all the desires of your heart/prayers (without consulting/seeking his Will - the real God first)

- The more you love God, the more you get blessed. Doors start opening. You get promotions, you get your dream job. You get fantastic deals.

- God only blesses (spiritually, but more importantly, materially) those he loves

- The more you give to God (tithes, charities etc) the more you get material blessings and he listen more eagerly to our prayers.

- It's okay not to devote yourself wholly to God or share the Gospel to anyone if it's not your calling or talent

- It's okay to get a nice house, nice car, nice neighborhood to raise a family

- It's okay to have hobbies

- It's okay to pursue riches as long as as the motivation is giving back to Church or charities, etc.

- It's okay to enjoy and get the good things in life

- Flaunt your riches and tell others that God blessed you with riches and come along to Christianity!

reply to post by jmdewey60


The universe is perfect in the sense that it does what it does perfectly. It has sustained us and itself for 13 billion years and beyond, without fail.

It is so huge and complex that in order for it to sustain itself for 13 billion years without fail, it must be perfect. There is no other word to describe it other than perfect.

Just because there is danger does not take away from its perfection, just because it's indifferent doesn't take away the fact that it IS.

The spiritual and material are interconnected, you cannot have one without the other. Without the spiritual world there would be nothing to perceive the material world and it would not exist. If there was no material world, there would be nothing to house the spirit and it also would not exist.

Like I said in another thread, if you change any of the strong or weak forces by even the tiniest fraction of a percent, the universe would cease to exist. If that fact doesn't prove just how perfect the universe is, then I don't know what will.

reply to post by ahnggk


There are two gods? Would these two gods be good and evil?

Good and evil are part of the same source, just as black and white are both part of the same color wheel. There is no such thing as two in the grand scheme of things, there is only one, the source of all things. This source, or nature, is the 'one' god mentioned in the bible.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Just because there is danger does not take away from its perfection, just because it's indifferent doesn't take away the fact that it IS.

Its more than a danger, it is a certainty that something very bad is going to happen to you, and like you said, the universe does not care and the fact that it continues on is no consolation.

Without the spiritual world there would be nothing to perceive the material world and it would not exist.

Whatever world there is, it is contained in the universe, hence the word, universe. You can not somehow sit outside of the universe and observe it objectively.
There is a malevolency inherent to it which is inescapable. You can love "nature" all you want but it will never "love" you back.

If there was no material world, there would be nothing to house the spirit and it also would not exist.

Spirit implies action so if there was nothing to apply an action to, then by definition there would be no spirit. If the universe somehow ceased to exist, whatever and whoever was of spirit would revert back to a proto-spiritual form of pure thought. But that is just academic since we can't cause the universe to cease to exist once it has been brought into existence.
Right now the dragon rules the heavens and we don't have the ability to kill it quite yet. When we are perfected and glorified then we will take its place and bring harmony when we take that energy and harness it as full-fledged masters of the universe. That is the universal myth of everything which all others use as their foundation. People have a birthright but it is squandered on short-term goals and desires, and the long term vision for the future of humanity is lost.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I don't care if nature loves me back or not, it has given me life and that is all I really care about, enjoying the beauty of it. I have no qualms with it not loving me back, I have family and friends for that, which nature has provided to me as well.

If there is malevolence then there is an equal amount of benevolence. The universe is all about balance, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, and that applies to everything.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If there is malevolence then there is an equal amount of benevolence. The universe is all about balance, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, and that applies to everything.

Take this verse in Matthew 10

28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

A lot of people would take this to mean God, as the destroyer of souls, but it never says that and goes on to seeming make God out as being quite the opposite.
So how is it that there were souls, even if only in the potential, before creation, then there is this material universe destoying them, but never able to make new ones, and then somehow be a "balance"?

reply to post by jmdewey60


I'm not sure I understand question. Are you asking how can there be balance when the material world destroys souls?

I don't take that verse as a literal destruction of the soul and body, but an oppression of the body and soul. You can't destroy energy, it only converts to another state, so literally destroying someones soul is impossible.

Did I answer the right question?

ETA: In my opinion there was no beginning or end to the universe, it has only changed forms. The fact that math is an infinite line of numbers goes to show there is room for infinite time in this universe.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I don't take that verse as a literal destruction of the soul and body, but an oppression of the body and soul. You can't destroy energy, it only converts to another state, so literally destroying someones soul is impossible.

Energy is a physical thing, so a person's spirit is not just an ordinary bunch of energy. It would be a cohesive sort of thing that can combine with the physical in the form of a body to be a fully actualized soul.
If the spirit of a person is trapped by a prison of sorts (as part of the universe) that keeps it from a body in order to have life, then that soul is virtually destroyed since it can never function as intended: a human spirit having come about as a separate "thing" for the express purpose of existing as a physical person.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Energy cannot be destroyed, that is scientific fact. A soul is energy in the form of consciousness, so a persons soul cannot be destroyed.

Not all energy is physical, your conscious energy cannot be observed because it is the thing observing.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


So what is your philosophy, then?
Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die?
Have your fun while it lasts and don't worry about what happens after we die since we won't be around for it anyway?

reply to post by jmdewey60


My philosophy is to enjoy the time that I am here and to not think about what happens after I die. This doesn't mean that I haven't thought about what happens after I die, because I have. I believe we are reincarnated, meaning we never truly die, but our memories do.

reply to post by ahnggk


There isn't anything wrong with having money. God is against materialism. The Bible says pure religion is to care for the widow and orphan in their times of need and that's impossible to do if people are struggling to pay the gas bill and keep the lights on paycheck to paycheck.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Money is the gateway to greed though. Money is the exact thing that is wrong with this world today.

Why are the wars fought? For money. Why is there famine? Because of money. Why are there poor people? Because of money.

Money is the epitome of what is wrong with this world today, everyone wants more of it and some will do anything in their power to acquire more of it, including starting wars based on lies and deceiving billions with religion and twisting the truth in order to keep billions ignorant and stagnant.

The entire purpose of religion is not to save people, but to get that moolah.

Why do you think money was invented in the first place? To acquire material things. Money is based on materialism.

I am new to posting on ATS but I felt lead to say a few things. I want to start out with I respect each and everyones views and do not wish to upset anyone. Don't you all agree that when one reads the Word of God that each person will have their own interpretation of how they perceived it? I feel each person has had life experiences that have molded them into who they are and what they chose to believe in. I myself love the Lord with all my heart,mind and soul. Jesus calls us to love one another. The greatest gift is love. We testify and plant the seeds and the Lord waters them. I feel to reach out to someone about the Lord, who is rejecting Him, we need to hear what the person has gone through in their life and love them. Be gentle in explaining the Lord when anyone has questions about the Lord. Jesus is not a religion. It took me a long time to get where I am today in my walk with Christ. Each situation that is put before me I pray about it and ask the Lord. That is how my walk with Him grows and my belief in Him became stronger and today is still growing. I hope everyone has a beautiful day.

Originally posted by kingkra
what if bible is wrong.....and there is no god....and jesus was just a human......nothing else

Then you have nothing to fear. You will eventually die, go into a grave or be cremated and that will be all there is to the story. Nobody will tell you "I told you so". All of this discussion and arguments of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit would be nothing but mental masturbation. Right?

But what if there is a God? And what if the Bible is correct? And what if Jesus was God on earth and sacrificed himself for us so that we could attain eternal life? What if there is a heaven and eternal life? What if there is a hell or a lake of fire?
Maybe it would be wiser to search and search and search to find if God is real rather than searching to prove that He is not.

Atheists are quick to point out that they don't believe in a God because of the lack of empirical facts. Yet, they are content to talk about the infinite size of the universe; something they have not seen. Many are quick to talk about quantum physics and parallel universes, again something they have not empirically seen...nor can they show it empirically to those of us who don't understand these things. Now let's add in Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Loch Ness Monsters, Atlantis, the Bermuda Triangle, Aliens, UFOs, universal consciousness, ad nauseum....all of which most people have not seen empirical proof of. To believe in something that cannot be empirically proved is FAITH. Faith can and often does leave to RELIGION. And Religion often leads to hate and intolerance.

Now, if you believe that the universe is truly infinite, have you checked every corner of it to find God?

I think Jesus said; "Seek and ye shall find".

May the Grace of God be upon you.

P.S. I have been where you may be. I was raised in a certain "christian" church and then rejected it after reading the Bible the first time. I walked away from God. I then studied many philosophies. I then tried the Charismatic christian thing and rejected it also. Walked away from God again. Studied more philosophies. I even became an atheist buying into the Objective Philosophy of Ayn Rand.

Then one day rather recently, I looked at myself and my sins and I was abhorred. My pride, my ego, my false self-esteem, my self-justifications for my immorality, adultery, fornication, and pornography; that is, my sins, came down heavy upon my head. I instantly knew that my years of anguish, depression, mental suffering, and physical sicknesses were due to my sins. This all came about because I had also looked at the world, trying to find a way out of the wars, the economic chaos, the riots....trying to figure out how people have changed so much just in my lifetime...things that used to be "good" are now "bad". That which is "bad" or "evil" have become "good", even badges of courage. I knew that I was partly to blame.

Originally posted by kellie01
I am new to posting on ATS but I felt lead to say a few things. I want to start out with I respect each and everyones views and do not wish to upset anyone. Don't you all agree that when one reads the Word of God that each person will have their own interpretation of how they perceived it? I feel each person has had life experiences that have molded them into who they are and what they chose to believe in.

Welcome Kellie! I agree with you. People twist the Word according to their level of materialism. But Jesus message and God's instructions are a clear cut on this one, it's quite radical by anyone's standards.

Luke 16:13 (KJB)

No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon

In the modern context, the question becomes, which one are you willing to obsess? Which dream would you take, to preach the gospel in the most hostile and desperate regions of the planet without pay or to become the richest man/woman in the world? Or in simpler situations, just to reach a point where you become financially secure, not necessarily rich by your neighbor's standards. Where do you lay the security of your future, is it more to God, or more to your education, your job, or your inheritance, or government benefits, or insurance? Would you risk your life even everything you have just to cross the border because that country is much better materially?

If you really Love God or even say if you are desperately 'in-love' or 'infatuated' with another person. You would research for hours what makes that person 'tick' would you? You would find out what they love and what they hate. Then you'll do further research the reason why they hate this and love that.

If you love God, you'll want to find out why God loves Jesus, righteousness, justice, and wisdom and why He hates money. How you'll find the disturbing realities of money how evil, haunted, psychologically manipulating, and dirty it really is that you would WANT to quit your job and give everything away to the poor.


@3NL1GHT3N3D1

There are two gods? Would these two gods be good and evil? Good and evil are part of the same source, just as black and white are both part of the same color wheel. There is no such thing as two in the grand scheme of things, there is only one, the source of all things. This source, or nature, is the 'one' god mentioned in the bible.

God endowed Lucifer with much abilities, intellect, power, and beauty. The fact it's these powers that led him to sin and rebel. Seeing that Lucifer is very much intelligent, and wise and to mount a rebellion against God, makes you realize, he may had similar capabilities to God. You wouldn't mount an uprising if there's absolutely no chance you can beat a foe, wouldn't you? especially for someone really smart. To heal the sick, resurrect the dead (animated by demon spirits), control nature, make you ridiculously rich materially, are all just too easy for him.

Satan can also behave like a very loving entity. He can impersonate God, but worse, he can be the god that will allow you to go to church and pursue wealth at the same time, bless you both with health, wealth, and happiness!

To the desperately wicked persons, Satan might appear to them as who he really is. To Christians, he would appear as God or even an angel, he would be as gentle as a dove. I mean this guy is ridiculously smart. I mean only someone stupid would try to deceive an upright person into doing evil stuff dressed like a crook and uttering foul language. Make no mistake, evil entities are smart, very smart!

Does it make you feel good, does it give you esteem and pride? If it feeds your worldly desires, it's probably the devil. That's why Jesus mentioned when you do good things, do it in secret. Don't take any credit for what you do good. Like if you had a really good car that you love so much and your friends are crazy, you drove like champ in the track and you say, it wasn't me, it's the car!! Don't you wish you can bring that car anywhere, even in bed?? Because you're so happy with it, it never stops for anything, it gets you through hell, never gives up and never lets you down!

reply to post by ahnggk


That description of Satan sounds a whole lot like humans. Some are good, some are evil, some have beauty, some are very smart, some have power over others.

We also have the abilities of god, we can create life, we can transform landscapes and alter nature.

Some peruse others to go to church all while raking in the dough. The ones in power are ridiculously smart because they have obviously deceived billions into believing in a false doctrine.

Humans rebelled against god after gaining self-awareness because they started taking advantage of one another and destroying nature.

Humans can imitate being good, saying they aren't in it for themselves when they really are. All these similarities between Satan and humans leads me to believe that in a general sense, humans are the Satan the bible speaks of. 'Satan' is the one who runs religion and the one who perverted the message of the bible. 'Satan' is called the deceiver and the accuser, humans are the biggest deceivers and accusers around.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by ahnggk

 

That description of Satan sounds a whole lot like humans. Some are good, some are evil, some have beauty, some are very smart, some have power over others.

Nope, all are evil since all are condemned to the fire. Few are endowed with much powers, shapeshifting, supernatural abilities etc. Most are spirits of nephilim race which many are animal or human hybrids with limited capabilities - more popular as ghosts but actually these spirits. It should be obvious why they seem to favor possessing women and children due to their perverted nature when these nephilims (fallen angels and animal/human giant/monster hybrids) are still living(before flood). I'm getting these info from Book of Enoch which is outside of the Canon Bible. But like I've said in my other thread, we are not to trust the popular Canon Bible due to many inconsistencies. The Book of Enoch doesn't disagree with Gospel of Jesus.

We're not dealing with something out of children's fables, but someone very smart and very intelligent and very evil.