Star of Romney 'My Hands Didn't Build This' Ad Received Millions in Government Loans and Contract, page 3

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reply posted on 26-7-2012 @ 12:23 AM by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by RealSpoke

It would be like me saying I put myself through college, when the government gave me loans for some of it. Sure I did the work to pass the classes, but they still helped me.

These people are complete hypocrites and liars. Fail for Romney camp...

No, they allowed you to put the work, time, effort, sweat, and tears into the college degree that resulted. If someone got a scholarship and graduated successfully and then was told they aren't responsible for their success they should be outraged. It doesn't matter how the opportunity to succeed comes about, there are those who step up to the challenge and those who fail. Those who step up should NEVER have that success minimized.

Regardless those roads and things that "we" didn't build were build on our tax dollars. So, in short, wrong. We DID build it. Those business owners paid for those roads, or did the money come from thin air?

edit on 26-7-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 26-7-2012 @ 12:35 AM by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Romney has to take Obama out of context to get a decent ad. Still... Many people already know what Obama actually said and are laughing at Romney over this.

I understand what he said, and it is still demeaning. The ad does take it out of context, but even in the correct context it's deplorable.

reply posted on 26-7-2012 @ 02:23 AM by longlostbrother

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

It's not even vaguely deplorable.

reply posted on 26-7-2012 @ 02:27 AM by longlostbrother

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Why are you choosing to lie?

He never said they weren't responsible, but that they had help.

Everyone gets help. It's not controversial.

Maybe if you're so self-obsessed that you don't notice others, then maybe you could delude yourself into thinking that no one has ever helped you, but it's just that, a delusion.

reply posted on 26-7-2012 @ 04:46 AM by dawnstar

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

and those who opted to go straight into the workforce and paid taxes which helped others get their higher education, spent 30+years learning a trade, shouldn't be considered unworthy of life by those graduates!!!
which is why now, the companies are screaming that they have no skilled laborers! why bother, when you know that you will not be earning enough to keep up with the bills, have a family....

face it, there wouldn't be this discussion now if the well to dos and college educated weren't acting like they were the only ones "working hard" and deserving to have the world given to them on the silver platter and the heck with everyone else...

reply posted on 26-7-2012 @ 04:52 AM by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Why are you choosing to lie?

He never said they weren't responsible, but that they had help.

Everyone gets help. It's not controversial.

Maybe if you're so self-obsessed that you don't notice others, then maybe you could delude yourself into thinking that no one has ever helped you, but it's just that, a delusion.

Last I checked the roads and infrastructure was built on our tax dollars. He was attempting to make people believe they need the government, I am sorry you don't get this. There is a message in there he could have gone with, he chose his message carefully, and his wording carefully.

reply posted on 26-7-2012 @ 04:53 AM by OccamsRazor04

reply to post by dawnstar

That has nothing to do with the current topic, although I can't say you are not somewhat correct.

reply posted on 26-7-2012 @ 05:09 AM by longlostbrother

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Sorry, did you use the word "our"?

As in, all of us, not just you?

So you mean, your fellow citizen helped pay for the road you drive on? You mean you had help?

And who built them? Was the it the "government" you claim Obama was forcing you to acknowledge?

Bu-bu-but I thought you never had no help mr island.

edit on 26-7-2012 by longlostbrother because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 26-7-2012 @ 05:35 AM by dawnstar

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

yes, well, what can I say, the trip to work is like running an obstacle course with a myriad of potholes littering the street some of which could take out my car!!! I don't see where the gov't would want to take credit for them!!!

you really don't think you need the gov't???

how many people in this nation are working 40 hours a week then coming home and sitting at a table with a meal on it that is at least some, if not all, purchased from food stamps?? isn't the companies they are working for kind of depending on the gov't to feed these people???

how many kids, and recent graduates are depending on student loans and grants to pay at least some, if not all of the tuition??

how many companies are depending on tax incentives, sba loans, ect. to keep their businesses running or starting them up??

how many landlords are counting on the gov't to pay at least some, if not all, of their tennants high rent??

how many medical clinics are counting on the gov't to pay their patients bills??

how many drug companies are counting on the gov't to buy the drugs for people??

how many stores and businesses are counting on the gov't to give some of the people money to spend at their stores?

I could go on, I really could!!

but, well, like it or not, weather you agree with it or not, and personally I don't!! WE NEED THE GOV'T!!!

to me, it is contrary to the values of our country, and it is leading us all, even those rich successful people, into a state of servitude!! and well, to be frank, one of the first steps to fixing a problem is to understand what that problem is! and our problem is that the gov't is siphoning way too much money out of the free economy and picking just who, what industries should be beneficiaries of those funds, and which ones should find themselves in a famine.
because, dependency will always lead to SERVITUDE!!

if you are one of those successful business men that are offended by what he said, well....
if you are a landlord, lower your rent to a reasonable level...
if you are an employee with a crew of food stamp recipients, pay them enough to buy their own food....
if you are a doctor, go independent and make your fees affordable for the average patient to pay without insurance.
if you know someone who is on the gov't dole, make an agreement with them , you will help them out, if they will drop out of the gov't programs....
ect...
eliminate the need for the gov't!
then come back and tell us we don't need it!

reply posted on 26-7-2012 @ 11:01 PM by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

how many people in this nation are working 40 hours a week then coming home and sitting at a table with a meal on it that is at least some, if not all, purchased from food stamps?? isn't the companies they are working for kind of depending on the gov't to feed these people???

how many kids, and recent graduates are depending on student loans and grants to pay at least some, if not all of the tuition??

how many companies are depending on tax incentives, sba loans, ect. to keep their businesses running or starting them up??

how many landlords are counting on the gov't to pay at least some, if not all, of their tennants high rent??

how many medical clinics are counting on the gov't to pay their patients bills??

how many drug companies are counting on the gov't to buy the drugs for people??

how many stores and businesses are counting on the gov't to give some of the people money to spend at their stores?

I could go on, I really could!!

but, well, like it or not, weather you agree with it or not, and personally I don't!! WE NEED THE GOV'T!!!

to me, it is contrary to the values of our country, and it is leading us all, even those rich successful people, into a state of servitude!! and well, to be frank, one of the first steps to fixing a problem is to understand what that problem is! and our problem is that the gov't is siphoning way too much money out of the free economy and picking just who, what industries should be beneficiaries of those funds, and which ones should find themselves in a famine.
because, dependency will always lead to SERVITUDE!!

if you are one of those successful business men that are offended by what he said, well....
if you are a landlord, lower your rent to a reasonable level...
if you are an employee with a crew of food stamp recipients, pay them enough to buy their own food....
if you are a doctor, go independent and make your fees affordable for the average patient to pay without insurance.
if you know someone who is on the gov't dole, make an agreement with them , you will help them out, if they will drop out of the gov't programs....
ect...
eliminate the need for the gov't!
then come back and tell us we don't need it!

How do you keep missing the point, do you simply want to just ignore what I am saying. Government is not providing food stamps. I am.
Government is not providing student loans. I am.
Government is not giving tax breaks. I am.

Where does the money the government uses come from? Me. You. Other hard working Americans. WE did this. Not government.
Obama wants people to think like you do, that we are dependent on government for all our needs. It is simply not true. Government does nothing, We The People do.

reply posted on 27-7-2012 @ 12:26 AM by KeliOnyx

Originally posted by sputniksteve
reply to post by buster2010

I am not looking to play a game of semantics, but you do know the definition of a loan right? It is money that has to be paid back, usually with interest. That is much different from a Grant.

Personally I call getting a loan, using that beginning capital to build a business, turning a profit in order to pay back the loan with interest as "doing it on your own" but that's just me. I am not trying to compare this example to what anyone else did but just saying.

The whole problem with that line of thought is, if it is a guaranteed by the Government than no you didn't do it on your own. If the Government had not been there to back that loan the bank would likely have told him to go play with himself. If he had secured the loan on his own credit your argument would be fine. The whole thing is the President never said the business owner wasn't responsible for their success, he did however point out that no man is an island.

reply posted on 27-7-2012 @ 03:17 AM by longlostbrother

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

No one is missing your point. You're point is just wrong.

Who maintains the footstamp system? The government?
Who collects taxes and does all the practical work to make infrastructure? The government.

You're confusing paying for something and doing something.

On top of that Obama never said, no matter what you wish, that businesses owners aren't responsible for their businesses success, but instead, and pay attention here, that we all have help. From infrastructure to education to loans to tax cuts to neighbours calling you when your businesses alarm is going off; we all have help.

You are desperate to make this into an anti-business screed from a President you obviously dislike, but that's dishonest. Be honest. We all need, and we ALL receive help, from friends, family and the government. It's not just about your tax dollars paying for the government.

reply posted on 27-7-2012 @ 03:40 AM by OccamsRazor04

reply to post by longlostbrother

You are desperate to make this into an anti-business screed from a President you obviously dislike, but that's dishonest. Be honest. We all need, and we ALL receive help, from friends, family and the government. It's not just about your tax dollars paying for the government.

That there is proof you have not been listening to me. I do not see it ass anti-business, I see it as a pro-government move by Obama. He wants us thinking we NEED government to survive. We do not survive by the whim of government, government survives by OUR whims. We The People. Not government. as I already said there IS a message in there that Obama could have run with. He chose not to, he chose to make this about how great and wonderful government is and how we would all be lost without it (him). So go back and look again, I am not making this an anti-business statement, but it IS insulting.

reply posted on 27-7-2012 @ 04:07 AM by longlostbrother

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by longlostbrother

You are desperate to make this into an anti-business screed from a President you obviously dislike, but that's dishonest. Be honest. We all need, and we ALL receive help, from friends, family and the government. It's not just about your tax dollars paying for the government.

That there is proof you have not been listening to me. I do not see it ass anti-business, I see it as a pro-government move by Obama. He wants us thinking we NEED government to survive. We do not survive by the whim of government, government survives by OUR whims. We The People. Not government. as I already said there IS a message in there that Obama could have run with. He chose not to, he chose to make this about how great and wonderful government is and how we would all be lost without it (him). So go back and look again, I am not making this an anti-business statement, but it IS insulting.

There is no proof I, or the others who think your position is untenable, have not been listening to you.

Many people DO need the government to survive. In many cases, tens of thousands of cases, government has stepped in and created environments for businesses to flourish, whether it be creating public transport, laying fibre-optic cable or creating tax breaks which favour small businesses.

Here's Obama's ACTUAL quote:

We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more … There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires. So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for president – because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.”

Now read that and tell me Obama was bashing businesspeople people, or claiming that people need the government to survive.

He's talking, broadly, about society.

The only people pretending not to get this are political propagandists.

No one ACTUALLY thinks those comments are meant to belittle businesspeople... no one serious,

reply posted on 27-7-2012 @ 05:14 AM by dawnstar

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

seems to me that the gov't is usuallly a decade late and a few million dollars short when it comes to stepping in and addressing problems...
so, well, let me put it this way...
if "we the people" (mainly the "rich successful business man" were feeding their poor starving workforce, there wouldn't have been a need for food stamps...
if "we the people" (namely the colleges and universities) we taking measures to ensure that no kid was left behind, well, we wouldn't have needed the student grant or student loan program..
if "we the people (namely the rich successful business man" we holding the safety and well being of their workforce above the profit margin, we wouldn't have need labor and minimum wage laws.
if "we the people" (namely the industrial base were concerned with the well being of the people, we wouldn't have needed the epa!!!

and to put it plainly, it's not the pions that are on the golf course in competition with our elected officials. it's not them that can call them up and chat with them. it's the "rich and successful businessmen that are holding the offices, it's the rich and successful businessmen that have a ear! and most of what the gov't does benefits the "rich and successful business man more than it does the pions!!
why are we fighting four or more wars at the moment....to protect the interests of the rich and successful oil industry???/

so, if the gov't wasn't providing food stamps to the starving masses, who would? I suppose magically, overnight, those rich successful business man and women would hire the unemployed, pay them livable wages, restore their diginity and let them earn their keep the way it's supposed to be??
no??
charity???????
DEPENDENCY=SERVITUDE!!!

reply posted on 27-7-2012 @ 10:37 AM by Dragoon01

No one NEEDS the government to survive.
The government is a middle man that takes a cut. Pure and simple.
for thousands of years people built roads, educated each other, conducted trade , provided charity, stability and security all without the "help" of the kings men. The king and his men and by extension modern government do nothing more than operate a shakedown crew.

"you sure do have a nice business here sir, sure would be a shame for something to happen to it, Why dont you just pay for this here business license so we can make sure that your building is safe to occupy".

All you you government sycophants need to get yourself out of the box and stop buying into the lie that you need a republican or a democrat. You dont need any of them.

The points being made so far pay no attention to the system as it is set up. You cant build your own electrical grid because the government would not let you. You cant build your own roads because you will run afoul of government. You cant operate a bank to loan money out to people without government intervention. All the rules and regulations make it impossible for individuals to operate business without government intervention. No one should be surprised that a government hack would take credit for transportation and communication. What we should be surprised about is the fact that given the government intervention that we have any transportation or communication at all!

reply posted on 27-7-2012 @ 10:43 AM by groingrinder

Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by BIHOTZ

Your father had no teachers?
Your father had no access to an electrical grid? Or public sewers?
Your father never benifited from any of the dozens of tax breaks, etc., that the US government offers?

I find it absurd that you are willing to dismiss all the tax money your father DID obviously benefit from.

Everyone has access to and benefits from these things you mention. Why is it then that everyone does not have their own successful business? It is because they sit back and watch dancing with the stars and NFL football instead of going out and working hard to achieve success. The government is NOT RESPONSIBLE for that.

reply posted on 27-7-2012 @ 10:48 AM by longlostbrother

Originally posted by groingrinder

Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by BIHOTZ

Your father had no teachers?
Your father had no access to an electrical grid? Or public sewers?
Your father never benifited from any of the dozens of tax breaks, etc., that the US government offers?

I find it absurd that you are willing to dismiss all the tax money your father DID obviously benefit from.

Everyone has access to and benefits from these things you mention. Why is it then that everyone does not have their own successful business? It is because they sit back and watch dancing with the stars and NFL football instead of going out and working hard to achieve success. The government is NOT RESPONSIBLE for that.

Not responsible for what?

reply posted on 27-7-2012 @ 11:33 AM by longlostbrother

reply to post by Dragoon01

No, and you must know that's BS.

You can't build your own electrical grid, because the sort of investment it would take to develop and roll out the technology is prohibitive to any one individual or a group.

On top of all of that, even if you could, the size of corporation it would take to maintain it in a way that would be safe, regulate it so it wasn't a scam, and improve it so that it could DRIVE business, not react to business, would be impossible.

How do I know?

Well, name ANY example in the entire history of the world, where a nation of say, even over 20K people lived for say 10 years, without a government.

Go on.

Once you accept that not only is society necessary for safety and progress, but also a CORE HUMAN INSTINCT you can squabble over which end of the political spectrum is "correct" for 6 billion people, but there's one thing absolutely certain, society is government, and vice versa, they are interlinked.

If you honestly can bring yourself to help others and receive help from others, in an organised society, please go, go off into the wood, or the desert, but don't expect all of us to give up on society because you think the cost of doing business is too high.

edit on 27-7-2012 by longlostbrother because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 27-7-2012 @ 01:17 PM by longlostbrother

Here's some classic Romney:

"You Olympians, however, know you didn’t get here solely on your own power. For most of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers, encouraged your hopes, coaches guided, communities built venues in order to organize competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them. We’ve already cheered the Olympians, let’s also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities."

How about this, from a few weeks ago:

“I know that you recognize a lot of people help you in a business. Perhaps the bank, the investors. There is no question your mom and dad, your school teachers. The people who provide roads, the fire, the police. A lot of people help.”

Romney, shoving big government down our throat, then selling us t-shirts saying the other guy is shoving big government down our throats... watch the right-wing ideologues declare that this is somehow different... should be fun..

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