Mass shooting in Aurora, CO (At Batman Film Premiere)

Originally posted by HolographicPrincipal
reply to post by samcrow

 

I had mentioned this in another post, but I will reiterate. The following tidbit is from a Reuters article which includes Jacobsen's opinion (read: smear job)

But he recently quit the program. A person who works in the neuroscience lab said Holmes did not join the other doctoral students at an end-of-the-year celebration in a local pub. Instead, a professor stopped by the impromptu party to tell everyone that Holmes had withdrawn from the program, with the clear implication that he had fallen behind academically, this source said.

So. A... PERSON stated that Holmes didn't show at the pub, yet a PROFESSOR stopped in to tell them Holmes had withdrawn. So this is alleged information twice removed. And this PERSON is making the assumption that Holmes had fallen behind academically.

So we don't know what the truth is. And unfortunately, I'm hearing a lot of "gossip" regarding his personal life, gaming habits, attitude, intelligence, etc. that are all pretty much unfounded. There is a whole chunk o public out there that are building their own ideas regarding what this guy was like, and presuming guilt, based solely on media speculation.

edit on 7/25/2012 by HolographicPrincipal because: correction

My point exactly. There are an awful lot of 'implied facts' coming from unnamed/anonymous sources. Like I said previously, stumbling on prelim exams is somewhat common, especially in rigorous programs, so I struggle to believe that an (allegedly) poor showing on his prelims while working under a T32 grant at a top tier school would've a) really been much of a surprise considering considering there were probably three or four other students in that had been in a similar situation in that program and b) that this was somehow the 'straw that broke the camel's back.'

I also think the timeline is completely wrong.

Here's where the 'academic struggle' excuse falls apart:

1. Holmes had, according to the police, been planning this for approximately 4 months. That puts the 'start' date somewhere around mid-MARCH.

2. What little information we have from UC-Denver points there being no indication that Holmes was struggling until he (allegedly) stumbled on his prelims.

3. However, prelims in that program are taken in JUNE.

So, he's a good student, everything's clicking along fine, he's funded, etc., but he suddenly decides to start stockpiling weapons and body armor. Then, THREE MONTHS LATER he unexpectedly fails his exams and that's the catalyst for something he had apparently already been planning FOR MONTHS? I don't buy it.

reply to post by jd0Fengland


I read about that today and I'm not buying the story

however

lets say he went to a prostitute or two, so what? How many of our politicians, Police officers and Military go to them? I'd say, without being nasty, one in every 3 males has visited a prostitute at least once in their life time.

Originally posted by senselessness
The only gaps I have seen are the ones you conspiracy theorists find with a biased view point. You are looking for gaps with the media who rarely get things right and make many mistakes, and gaps with witnesses who are rarely reliable when they have gone through a traumatic event.

I agree with you when it comes to outlandish ideas about YouTube videos "predicting" something or mind-control.

However, please explain to me how the police officer is heard on the radio discovering the perpetrator at his car with a gas mask, and then the images of a gas mask laying on the ground at the other end of the building, marked as evidence where it lay.

Please explain to me the witness in theater 8 who stated that they held the fire exit door shut to prevent someone from entering and then ran because they feared the person would shoot through the door. Who was that person trying to get in if the gunman was now shooting in theater 9?

I am not one to believe nonsense, but I do have some serious questions about how this played out and the little parts of this that simply do not make sense.

Why was that gas mask found where it was if Holmes was wearing it when detained, and who was it trying to get in through the fire exit of theater 8 when he was still shooting inside the building?

If you can answer these two questions for me, I'll gladly reconsider my thoughts on this being covered up because the police failed to apprehend a second person and are therefore trying to pin it all on the one person they did catch.

Logic is telling me that there was a second person, the police let them go through error or simply missed it, and they are now trying to pretend that James Holmes was acting alone to avoid embarrassment and questions.

I certainly don't want to criticize the heroes who attended, they all deserve commendation for dealing with that they had to deal with. But my common sense tells me someone in that police department is not telling the truth about what happened that night. These two fundamental questions have to be answered, and if they cannot be answered or they refuse to answer them, I will continue to think that there is something else going on here.

Maybe he failed the exam because he was spending time and obsessed with the theater plan.

Originally posted by senselessness

Originally posted by LordAdef
reply to post by senselessness

 

I take your point.
But there are suspicious gaps within this simplicity. Many in fact.
Ok, he snapped and decided to kill in the Batman's premiere. Why? Because he was probably a fan. But he didn't watch the movie! As a mad fan I would watch the premiere first and murder in another day.. I don't really know..

The only gaps I have seen are the ones you conspiracy theorists find with a biased view point. You are looking for gaps with the media who rarely get things right and make many mistakes, and gaps with witnesses who are rarely reliable when they have gone through a traumatic event.

You are also asking completely irrelevant questions based on what you consider normal behavior... Take your above quote for example... no offense, but it is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. You are questioning why he did it during the Batman premiere.... Then you create some crazy question like "Why didn't he watch the movie first?"... That is freaking ridiculous. That is your gap? A stupid gap that you created based on absolutely nothing but your opinion of how "normal" people would act? Psychotic people are nothing but normal for your information. And, what makes you think he didn't already see the movie? That's right, you don't know.

You guys are so hell bent on this not being just some psychotic guy with above average intelligence going postal that you actually create "gaps" instead of find real ones to support your belief.

edit on 24-7-2012 by senselessness because: (no reason given)

He could have already seen the movie online through illegal websites. Sometimes they hit the sites 3-4 days prior than the theaters because they hit some overseas sites before US. So if not seeing the movie yet is a "gap" for some of you, you might be able to eliminate this gap. My ex use to watch movies before they hit the theaters often online on illegal sites. Holmes may have done the same.

reply to post by Manhater


Once again, the lighting and camera used changes everything. Ask any photographer how a person can look different in so many ways in photography. The angle, how the person tilts their head, etc. Lift your chin and a photograph might show a person with a double chin. Lower the chin and it appears slimmer. If you put a big wide goofy grin your face, your nose can flatten out, cheeks appear wider, and your eyes shape will change as well. Also take a look at all the various photographs of him at court. Some photos/videos show flaming red hair and yet others show orange with bits of bleached yellow (where the dye has faded). As for the eyebrows, overexposure in a camera shot can almost eradicate eyebrow hair if it is sparse or light colored. It can also darken in a darker setting. Most normal people always look a bit different in photographs. Especially as they get older, etc. We also do not know when the first photo was taken.

reply to post by samcrow


Just to add some info to your post, prelim was June 7th and dropped out 3 days after. It doesn't add, being a mediocre research student wouldn't cause such an event and the timings don't tie in.

www.freep.com...

Holmes had difficulty with a June 7 preliminary exam, given orally by three university faculty members. It is designed to evaluate students' knowledge at the end of the first year. Three days later, Holmes dropped out.

Originally posted by LordAdef

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by HolographicPrincipal

 

this appeared today via Infowars that sheds some light on Holmes and his family:

www.infowars.com...

A busy family...
...Soon it's gonna be clear for the skeptics this is not just a "he cracked" case.
The digging is only starting.

Good dig!

Dang bump, this deserves its own topic.

I wouldn't be surprised.

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by samcrow

 

Just to add some info to your post, prelim was June 7th and dropped out 3 days after. It doesn't add, being a mediocre research student wouldn't cause such an event and the timings don't tie in.

www.freep.com...

Holmes had difficulty with a June 7 preliminary exam, given orally by three university faculty members. It is designed to evaluate students' knowledge at the end of the first year. Three days later, Holmes dropped out.

On top of that, even if he was a mediocre research student, there would've been departmental action taken to rectify that situation long before he ever got to the prelims, and none of his classmates and the little bit of information for the department indicate he was anything other than a good student. Very strange.

James Holmes reportedly known as "dolt" as intern, calling into question academic credentials
www.cbsnews.com...

Oh now he was a dolt?

They give dolts these major scholarships now do they?

At the Salk Institute, Holmes acquired a reputation as a "dolt," Eagleman told the newspaper, adding that he didn't know Holmes. Eagleman worked as a researcher at the Salk Institute when Holmes was there, according to the paper.

A widely circulated video of Holmes making a presentation at the institute was misleading, Eagleman said, saying the words were prepared by his advisers.

"He was just given the presentation to read," Eagleman told USA Today. "He wasn't any sort of superscientist when he was 18."/ex]]

Maybe he was a patsy?

edit on 113131p://bWednesday2012 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

He did it because he could.

He had no regards... no second thoughts until now.

A person who should not have had a gun had one. Period.

The majority of people should ever be able to access an ASSAULT RIFLE.

EXCLUSIVE: Movie massacre suspect sent chilling notebook to psychiatrist before attack

Read more: www.foxnews.com...

– James Holmes, the accused gunman in last Friday's midnight movie massacre in Colorado, mailed a notebook "full of details about how he was going to kill people" to a University of Colorado psychiatrist before the attack, but the parcel sat unopened in a mailroom for as long as a week before its discovery Monday, a law enforcement source told FoxNews.com.

Police and FBI agents were called to the University of Colorado Anschutz medical campus in Aurora on Monday morning after the psychiatrist, who is also a professor at the school, reported receiving a package believed to be from the suspect. Although that package turned out to be from someone else and harmless, a search of the Campus Services' mailroom turned up another package sent to the psychiatrist with Holmes’ name in the return address, the source told FoxNews.com.

A second law enforcement source said authorities got a warrant from a county judge and took the package away Monday night. When it was opened, its chilling contents were revealed.

“There were drawings of what he was going to do in it--drawings and illustrations of the massacre."

- Law enorcement source

“Inside the package was a notebook full of details about how he was going to kill people,” the source told FoxNews.com. “There were drawings of what he was going to do in it - drawings and illustrations of the massacre."

Stick figures shooting other stick figures.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

EXCLUSIVE: Movie massacre suspect sent chilling notebook to psychiatrist before attack

Stick figures shooting other stick figures.

So let me get this straight.... The FBI shows up at this psychiatrist's office, with whom Holmes had probably never had previous contact (are we just mailing manifestos to random people now?), looking for another package but they just 'happen' to find ANOTHER package that HAPPENS to be the 'smoking gun,' so to speak, for the the premeditation case? And, amidst a really high profile investigation, the university was completely unaware that said package even existed, even though it had been just lying around the mailroom for who knows how long with Holmes' return address on it. Uh huh. Yup. Totally plausible.

Just a comment regarding reports James was spitting in jail. Hypersalivation is a side effect of certain drugs. The jailers are crowing NO MEDS NO MEDS. Maybe he had a reason to spit.

Also right on cue comes the manifesto.

The majority of people should ever be able to access an ASSAULT RIFLE.

I agree...

Stay armed, the only one looking out for your safety is you.

reply to post by samcrow


Wow, these folks are not using hammers and nails in this frame up, they moved to air nailers.

May be if they had delivered the package this could have been avoided. (We won't hear that theory though)

reply to post by Xaphan

Originally posted by Xaphan
reply to post by Xaphan

 

Here's a poster/flyer thing if anybody is interested in spreading this around other forums/message boards.

qs500ff026.png

Sorry, no offense, but all I see from you is propaganda and ignorance... Yes people, spread the propaganda and ignorance around to other forums as Xaphan says, because he "thinks" he is right...

So you compared one crappy horribly cropped image with bad lighting and him smiling with his mug shot and you think it is two different people... Why didn't you compare other pictures??

Here is a picture of him from High School...



Same exact shape of outer eye lids and eyes, same lazy eye, same eye color, same nose, same high cheek bones... It's the same guy just younger.

As for all the other crap in that image....

Originally posted by Xaphan
Some things that I find strange about this incident:

~ SWAT bomb squad can't diffuse bombs and have to call in FBI.
Was this guy more clever than a SWAT bomb squad? I doubt it.

~ FBI says it was the most elaborate booby trap they'd ever seen
Once again, I doubt he's this clever.

~ On unemployment; buys $20,000 worth of guns and explosives.
LOL!

~ Every single witness who has talked to the media says that someone let him in.
This has already been mentioned many times in this thread. Just throwing it out there again though in case anybody else is unaware of this.

~ 911 call from Air Force captain notes "Reloads fast... probably military."
I can't remember where I read this one. Can anybody verify if it is true or not? If it is true, the fact that an Air Force captain thought he was in the military would definitely indicate that it was somebody much more skilled than Holmes.

- He didn't have only two months to learn about explosives... He had 24 years (his entire life). Most things about bombs you can learn in basic science class and basic chemistry in high school.

- SWAT COULD diffuse the bomb if they wanted, but the FBI were already on the scene, and have more resources, so they took over.

- "Most ELABORATE bomb" doesn't mean "most clever bomb"... it just means James took the time to make the bomb complex. Complex isn't intelligent. I can draw the most elaborate image ever, it doesn't mean the image required vast amounts of skill, only time.

- $20,000 over a period of time is not hard to acquire with credit cards, and even a pawn shop. He probably had some help from mommy and daddy too. I'm sure he probably had some saved up cash from past jobs too.. not everyone lives paycheck to paycheck, they actually save money up when they work.

- James left the theater, put on his gear, then came back. This change of gear / appearance most likely made everyone think someone different came back, because they didn't expect someone to go outside, change, and come back looking different. Witness testimony is famously inaccurate after traumatic events too...

- You don't know how skilled he was... it doesn't take a lot of skill to reload fast.. You can practice in your home over and over too... It is not a difficult thing to master.

----

Anyway... don't you people get tired of CREATING all these stupid "gaps" that make you think this event was more than it really was?? Because it looks and sounds completely ridiculous to me, and I've been on this topic and watching this event unfold from the beginning, and watching you people "find" all these stupid "inconsistencies" which are not actually "found" but more like CREATED by ignorance is getting kinda mind numbing.

You wanna be investigators are just reaching for straws it seems.

From a guy like Xaphan who was crying about "shills" earlier in this thread, he seems to be the one spreading the most propaganda.

Originally posted by truthinfact
The majority of people should ever be able to access an ASSAULT RIFLE.

An AR-15 is not technically an assault rifle. Assault rifles are FULL automatic, and civilian AR-15's are only SEMI automatic. Although AR-15's can be converted to full, I doubt Jame's was converted.

An AR-15 is just a normal rifle, that looks like an assault rifle, but really isn't one technically speaking.

Originally posted by samcrow
My point exactly. There are an awful lot of 'implied facts' coming from unnamed/anonymous sources. Like I said previously, stumbling on prelim exams is somewhat common, especially in rigorous programs, so I struggle to believe that an (allegedly) poor showing on his prelims while working under a T32 grant at a top tier school would've a) really been much of a surprise considering considering there were probably three or four other students in that had been in a similar situation in that program and b) that this was somehow the 'straw that broke the camel's back.'

I also think the timeline is completely wrong.

Here's where the 'academic struggle' excuse falls apart:

1. Holmes had, according to the police, been planning this for approximately 4 months. That puts the 'start' date somewhere around mid-MARCH.

2. What little information we have from UC-Denver points there being no indication that Holmes was struggling until he (allegedly) stumbled on his prelims.

3. However, prelims in that program are taken in JUNE.

So, he's a good student, everything's clicking along fine, he's funded, etc., but he suddenly decides to start stockpiling weapons and body armor. Then, THREE MONTHS LATER he unexpectedly fails his exams and that's the catalyst for something he had apparently already been planning FOR MONTHS? I don't buy it.

Astute and thoughtful points... if only such posts were a majority instead of minority. The salacious "implied facts" (i like that), are the ones that effectively garner attention. So John Q. Public focuses on Holmes' alleged perversions, his wacky hair color, his newly rumored idiocy... and now a crazy book to show premeditation. The lack of interest in facts or sources or even educated discussion, is very disheartening.

...About the crazy book... Isn't the case now sealed? Perhaps someone can school me on that? Wouldn't that mean that the discovery of this alleged book should be withheld? Or does sealing the case just mean withholding all factual evidence.

reply to post by samcrow


Fact is stranger than fiction...

Come on people, your only doubts to this story stem from your disbelief in certain scenarios. It seems you people have watched way to many Hollywood movies and TV shows, and you think you know how things work.

By the way, the smoking gun for the case is literally the smoking guns that contain serial numbers that belong to James Holmes which were used to kill people in and around him at the scene, and the fact he had explosives in his apartment designed to kill whoever enters...