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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NihilistSanta
May I ask what you are getting out of attempting to confuse people with statements that you yourself do not believe?
Look at what this thread has done? It caused others to think, to really pull out some meaty answers and not superficial ones. It caused others to stand strong in their beliefs. Could I not be the one to cause a movement within?
I am not attempting to confuse anyone. If you know the truth, you should be able to defend it, by whatever is thrown at you.
Do you learn best by everyone being in agreement, or best by others challenging you?edit on 20-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)
I applaud you for trying to shake things up and get people thinking but in my apostate life years ago I used questions like the one posed to lead many astray which is my burden to bear and I do not wish it on any other.
I am a follower of the lord and so I don't try to doubt him anymore
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NihilistSanta
Things are not messed up because of one that questions...
Things are messed up because there are charismatic people leading in places they do not belong...
People put there trust in those that barely understand the basics of spirituality...
there are those that listen to preachers, and those that read for themselves... Those that read do not bother to listen to others because the truth is right in front of them.
Those that listen to preachers are as good as blind..
and we know what happens when the blind follow the blind.... right?
Also to OP so you are saying that a loving and merciful God put us here to cultivate our souls?
I can kind of see that except to me that is placing the blame on God as to why we suffer rather than on us who as individuals and collectively choose to ignore God and his commandments.
That is a nice thought and it's good that you are a seeker.
Originally posted by NihilistSanta
Another thought touching on my last point though a bit off topic but I have considered the idea that we were created so that God could experience himself through us. Could anyone elaborate on this? I am merely a seeker and do not hold any answers but would love to hear someone who could bring me closer to understanding.
Actually you could say it is entirely messed up because of one who questions. Adam and Eve questioned the lord and the devil planted the seed.
Also I dont believe one has to be this ultra-studious intellectual when it comes to spirituality the truth is usually very simple but our Egos try to make it more complex to fit our preconceived notions.
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NihilistSanta
Actually you could say it is entirely messed up because of one who questions. Adam and Eve questioned the lord and the devil planted the seed.
Lets keep in mind we're talking about a talking snake here...
Im sorry but in reality, snakes don't talk... Believe it or not, theres quite a few fairytales within "the book"
Also I dont believe one has to be this ultra-studious intellectual when it comes to spirituality the truth is usually very simple but our Egos try to make it more complex to fit our preconceived notions.
Actually its amazingly simple... the issue comes when an "intellectual" reads the bible and figures out a way to "decieve" others with it... Ego is a big part of it, but not how you seem to think
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NihilistSanta
Alright so lets say the whole "snake" thing was actually a spirit...
Do you not believe that when God placed "the tree of knowledge" in the garden in our story... He likely knew what he was doing?
Or
God put the candy in front of his children expecting them to leave it be?
Is your God wise or cruel?
both?
If God created us to suffer then im sure he could devise much better ways than this miraculous gift of life to torment us.
Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NihilistSanta
If God created us to suffer then im sure he could devise much better ways than this miraculous gift of life to torment us.
He didn't send man here to suffer. But, through all experiences, man can become whole.
You are contradicting yourself now. Before you said we are here to grow into becoming worthy of God (im paraphrasing) and you also said that we grow through that suffering so which is it did he send us here to suffer in order to grow or did he not?
Originally posted by NihilistSanta
reply to post by jhill76
Why does judeo-christian belief refer to our condition as being fallen or the fall? That implies that we were in a better/higher state before our actions/choices caused this fall. Opinion incoming! I dont not feel that we were created fallen and have to work our way up. The narrative says the opposite if I understand correctly. Although if you can show me something to suggest otherwise I will gladly consider it.
Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NihilistSanta
You are contradicting yourself now. Before you said we are here to grow into becoming worthy of God (im paraphrasing) and you also said that we grow through that suffering so which is it did he send us here to suffer in order to grow or did he not?
The suffering is one part of it, not all of it. So, it may seem I am contradicting, but I did not include all of the reasons why man is sent here, thus the confusion.
Well you did not include those reasons because no one knows.