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A Challenge to Chemtrail Believers - Explain this 1969 Issue of Popular Science:

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posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by SolarIce
 


There is a well known term "evidence of absence which should be looked at.

If there was some chemical spraying operation from airliners then there should be some physical evidence of it - systems on board the aircraft, systems to deliver materials to aircraft, documents, manuals, bills of sale, doctored fuel, etc.

So far there is a TOTAL absence of such evidence.

Some negatives can be proved - I can prove the absence of any elephants in my office by looking around my office ......yep - no elephants.

Similarly we can look at the aircraft that are suposedly doign this spraying and see that they are not fitted with any means of doing it. Nor is there any evidende that they ever had any means of doing it.

it is therefore a prefectly reasonable conclusion that they are NOT doing it.

by al means disagree - but it would be nice to have some proper reasons why this is wrong othe than i'm a shil, paid disingo agent, can't see the wood for the trees, and the rest of the usual avoiding any attempt to address the evidence that usually happens.



Is this the BEST you got??? Man, oh man. 1st...who do you think owns these airlines??? Yeah...the same people that own the fuel, the equipment, the paychecks. When you own a company, you can do what you want to do. You act like EVERYBODY is on the up and up! Unfortunately, that's just not the case. These people invest BIG money in things that will make them rich; not you! You're just a dispensable sheep. Cheap laborer!




posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:19 PM
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Derp
edit on 19-7-2012 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by SolarIce
 


You've got this all wrong. You cannot prove/disprove the existence of a deity because by definition, being supernatural, they would fall outside of the realm of science. Science gathers data through objective means - something supernatural could not be supported by evidence.

Chemtrails, on the other hand, have an appalling lack of evidence (no sprayers, no funding, no documents, etc) and are generally explained as being able to persist - this is the sole way that one may identify a chemtrail. We can easily conclude that the chemtrail theory is bunk, if the only support that exists for it is a feature of ordinary contrails.

Be easy.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by Thorazine

Originally posted by SolarIce
[i Wouldn't it be a fact that the government could use this to cover up true intentions perfectly? Of course once again this is all speculations because you have about as much proof as I do, only I dont deny its possible..


Alas, we seem to be going in circles. to reiterate- the main theme of the theory is that the persistent trails HAVE to be "chemtrails" because contrail don't do that.

We know this to be false. That CAN be proved. Thus, the main theory is false.

It is possible that "they" could be spraying something...BUT there is NO evidence that it is happening.

So, in order to believe that it is...one must relying purely on faith. not fact...just faith.

Do you deny the possibility that god lives in my pocket? can you prove he doesn't?


Did you say: "There is NO evidence that it is happening"?


Patents
1338343 - April 27, 1920 - Process And Apparatus For The Production of Intense Artificial Clouds, Fogs, or Mists
1619183 - March 1, 1927 - Process of Producing Smoke Clouds From Moving Aircraft
1631753 - June 7, 1927 - Electric Heater - Referenced in 3990987
1665267 - April 10, 1928 - Process of Producing Artificial Fogs
1892132 - December 27, 1932 - Atomizing Attachment For Airplane Engine Exhausts
1928963 - October 3, 1933 - Electrical System And Method
1957075 - May 1, 1934 - Airplane Spray Equipment
2097581 - November 2, 1937 - Electric Stream Generator - Referenced in 3990987
2409201 - October 15, 1946 - Smoke Producing Mixture
2476171 - July 18, 1945 - Smoke Screen Generator



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Thorazine

Originally posted by snalesnot


what the hell you expect them to say were killing you daily and causing health problems to lower population. i just hope everyone who thinks chemtrails is bs gets a weird disease n has autistic children or no children at all cause they are no longer able to. so why in winter isnt there lines all over the sky daily? is it not freezing temp? why do i see this # sprayed in 90 degrees summer days that stays all day spreading out blocking my rays? be sure to stock up on some GMO corn too thats very healthy for you.


Thats some classic stuff....if you disagree with me may harm come to you...

Alas, if "chemtrails" are for lowering the population, it seems to be a dismal failure as the population keeps going up.

Curious- when its 90 degrees out- what temperature do you think it is 6 miles above you at 35-40K feet?

its funny how you skipped the winter theory shouldnt there be lines all over the sky when its freezing temp in winter? yet its not. hurry n get that strange disease and respiratory problems so i can say i dont believe you
edit on 19-7-2012 by snalesnot because: (no reason given)


video i made last year peep it tell me this is normal looking skys
www.youtube.com...

edit on 19-7-2012 by snalesnot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by Thorazine
 



we are going in circles, you keep telling me it comes down to faith, but believing that all contrails are just contrails comes down to faith as well.. because you yourself have no proof to prove otherwise, you can say planes have always made contrails, and while that is indeed true can you show me proof that some may not be something else?

As for god being in your pocket, I couldn't say he is and I couldn't say he isn't, and the same goes for you, maybe hes so small that to him your pocket is the size of an universe, and every time your pants go through a washer it''s a great flood to him...

Just got to understand we're debating purely on what we've been told, have you ever seen a contrail first hand form from just a few feet away? If not then you are only going on by what you have been told to be true, and history has shown us time and time again that at any moment what we believe to be true can easily be proven false.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by SpittinTruth

Originally posted by Thorazine

Originally posted by SolarIce
[i Wouldn't it be a fact that the government could use this to cover up true intentions perfectly? Of course once again this is all speculations because you have about as much proof as I do, only I dont deny its possible..


Alas, we seem to be going in circles. to reiterate- the main theme of the theory is that the persistent trails HAVE to be "chemtrails" because contrail don't do that.

We know this to be false. That CAN be proved. Thus, the main theory is false.

It is possible that "they" could be spraying something...BUT there is NO evidence that it is happening.

So, in order to believe that it is...one must relying purely on faith. not fact...just faith.

Do you deny the possibility that god lives in my pocket? can you prove he doesn't?


Did you say: "There is NO evidence that it is happening"?


Patents
1338343 - April 27, 1920 - Process And Apparatus For The Production of Intense Artificial Clouds, Fogs, or Mists
1619183 - March 1, 1927 - Process of Producing Smoke Clouds From Moving Aircraft
1631753 - June 7, 1927 - Electric Heater - Referenced in 3990987
1665267 - April 10, 1928 - Process of Producing Artificial Fogs
1892132 - December 27, 1932 - Atomizing Attachment For Airplane Engine Exhausts
1928963 - October 3, 1933 - Electrical System And Method
1957075 - May 1, 1934 - Airplane Spray Equipment
2097581 - November 2, 1937 - Electric Stream Generator - Referenced in 3990987
2409201 - October 15, 1946 - Smoke Producing Mixture
2476171 - July 18, 1945 - Smoke Screen Generator




HAHAHAHA so a smoke machine is part of the chemtrail conspiracy.

You must be on meds?



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by SpittinTruth


Did you say: "There is NO evidence that it is happening"?


Patents
1338343 - April 27, 1920 - Process And Apparatus For The Production of Intense Artificial Clouds, Fogs, or Mists
1619183 - March 1, 1927 - Process of Producing Smoke Clouds From Moving Aircraft
1631753 - June 7, 1927 - Electric Heater - Referenced in 3990987
1665267 - April 10, 1928 - Process of Producing Artificial Fogs
1892132 - December 27, 1932 - Atomizing Attachment For Airplane Engine Exhausts
1928963 - October 3, 1933 - Electrical System And Method
1957075 - May 1, 1934 - Airplane Spray Equipment
2097581 - November 2, 1937 - Electric Stream Generator - Referenced in 3990987
2409201 - October 15, 1946 - Smoke Producing Mixture
2476171 - July 18, 1945 - Smoke Screen Generator




did you mean to post some actual evidence of chamtrails beign sprayed??


You do know that a patent is nothing more than someone having an idea, right??



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:28 PM
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I came here....hoping to be "challenged". Next time, bring your A-game. Just reading some of these patents...is ENOUGH proof that they've been doing this...for a long, long time! Probably before your parents were born!Hard to debunk this PROOF!



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:29 PM
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good post!, one that i'm sure will have a lot us believers re-evaluating our evidence. However, some of the evidence cannot be dismissed as 'con trails' you see, targeting obvious areas of the sky with contrails just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. As you can see from the photo in the link, this area of the sky is definately 'targeted' and if anyone wants to say that this is a freak accident (the patterns created by the trails) then I'm afraid i will do the face-palm thing myself

www.dailymail.co.uk...



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by SpittinTruth

So, i guess these FACTS...are IRRELEVANT? Or, are these not considered FACTS??? Chemtrail Related Patents for "research"
Dude, GIVE IT UP ALREADY! You are SERIOUSLY MISLEADING PEOPLE!


I already addressed this- I asked you why a patent for crop dusting...or cloud seeding...or smoke generation can be considered evidence of "chemtrails"

Does that fact that a patent exists mean that it is in use? or even works?? (no.)

you claimed Monsanto trying to develop aluminum resistant seeds was part of the plan...yet neglected to addres the fact the the earth is 8% aluminum and seed companies have been trying for decades to develop these seeds...long before "chemtrails".

It is you who is hysterically yelling and misleading people-



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by SpittinTruth
 


Hey skippy i have a couple of patents that never made production but the idea is different thats all it takes to get a patent



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by SpittinTruth


Did you say: "There is NO evidence that it is happening"?


Patents
1338343 - April 27, 1920 - Process And Apparatus For The Production of Intense Artificial Clouds, Fogs, or Mists
1619183 - March 1, 1927 - Process of Producing Smoke Clouds From Moving Aircraft
1631753 - June 7, 1927 - Electric Heater - Referenced in 3990987
1665267 - April 10, 1928 - Process of Producing Artificial Fogs
1892132 - December 27, 1932 - Atomizing Attachment For Airplane Engine Exhausts
1928963 - October 3, 1933 - Electrical System And Method
1957075 - May 1, 1934 - Airplane Spray Equipment
2097581 - November 2, 1937 - Electric Stream Generator - Referenced in 3990987
2409201 - October 15, 1946 - Smoke Producing Mixture
2476171 - July 18, 1945 - Smoke Screen Generator




did you mean to post some actual evidence of chamtrails beign sprayed??


You do know that a patent is nothing more than someone having an idea, right??


And you do realize, everything we see today....came from someone else's idea, right? I mean, what reason does one have for an "Apparatus For The Production of Intense Artificial Clouds, Fogs, or Mists" or "Process For Controlling Weather"? What idea do they have in mind?

Come on man. Do better then that! This is RIDICULOUS! In your eyes....nothing we say is "proof". Only your bunk is "fact". Pah-lease! A little ONE-SIDED, are we?



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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Wow...finally to the end of all these comments. What I find amazing is that there are only a few posts that are graceful enough to say, "We don't know for sure".

However, thanks for the enlightenment on contrails that can last for hours and disperse. That's good to know as I was one that thought that they disappeared shortly afterwards. On that part I was obviously wrong.

I also didn't realize the airline routes that make a complete turn around and go back where they came...having said that, from looking at those routes, I'm not sure it explains some of the pics I've seen of these contrails, like 4 or 5 side by side, making a U turn and heading back the other way...within a very short distance of each other...not like the illustration shown on the flight paths. Nor did I really see any flight paths that explain the crazy basket weave that sometimes shows up. Sure, it can happen, but I'm not buying that its all just normal air traffic. Could be, but I'm not sold on it.

But I wonder why is this such a big issue now? I'm 48 and I cannot remember the whole time growing up seeing anything like the pics and video's that are all over the web these days...tho I realize some old timers do from before my time. How long has this been an issue in recent years? 10 maybe? Why now does it seem so crazy?

I did read an interesting theory that it's our atmosphere that is changing...something to do with the layers of atmosphere being pushed down lower to the earth (or something like that) that makes contrails have the appearance that they do today. Don't remember the source but it had some data to support their theory.

Point is, it's just as likely that TPTB are using the contrails as a disguise for chemical spraying, as it is that they are not doing it. I have no doubts that the government can have chemicals added to fuel. Besides, it's the elites that own the fuel companies anyway. There's a 100 different ways they could make this happen under the guise of any reason.

I do feel a little more cautious about just jumping in with both feet now, tho I lean to some type of chemtrail being more likely true.

In my mind there has to be some reason why the sky's are such an eye sore when this happens. Like someone else said..."if it wasn't unusual, then no one would notice"

What I find frustrating is reading back and forth at both sides and seeing the whole topic disolve into something that sounds more like school kids calling each other names. It really makes both sides sound immature, regardless of how well you post or how much education you have, or how much time you have to research such topics that others don't have.

As far as I'm concerned, none of us knows. Period. We have too many reasons to distrust the governments of the world and it's not necesarily mankinds fault that we suspect things that are unusual...especially in the times we are living in.

Can't we just say that it's inconclusive as to what, if anything, is going on? As soon as you slam the door and say it's not so, many times that can make it harder to accept a greater truth that may come out later if one keeps an open mind about things such as this.

I tend to think there are grains of truth in most every conspiracy...connecting the dots is about all we can do when we aren't in the 'know". And it's understandable that some of the dots get connected the wrong way or lead off down into the ditch...But that shouldn't keep us from trying to keep connecting the dots until it becomes irrefutable.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by snalesnot
 


Cold air in plus humitity makes the difference read up do the math.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by robbo961
good post!, one that i'm sure will have a lot us believers re-evaluating our evidence. However, some of the evidence cannot be dismissed as 'con trails' you see, targeting obvious areas of the sky with contrails just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. As you can see from the photo in the link, this area of the sky is definately 'targeted' and if anyone wants to say that this is a freak accident (the patterns created by the trails) then I'm afraid i will do the face-palm thing myself

www.dailymail.co.uk...


Do the face-palm thing all you like, ever hear of wind?



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by SpittinTruth
 



Patents are not proof have a look at this list

weird patents



For the USPTO to issue a patent, the invention must be novel, non-obvious, and "useful." The standard for usefulness is certainly the weakest of the three -- any possible utility, no matter how small, will suffice. And, useful does not necessarily mean commercially viable. In other words, you can get a patent on some crazy things that will never make it to the shelves of your local store.


edit on 19-7-2012 by SolarIce because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by Thorazine

Originally posted by SpittinTruth

So, i guess these FACTS...are IRRELEVANT? Or, are these not considered FACTS??? Chemtrail Related Patents for "research"
Dude, GIVE IT UP ALREADY! You are SERIOUSLY MISLEADING PEOPLE!


I already addressed this- I asked you why a patent for crop dusting...or cloud seeding...or smoke generation can be considered evidence of "chemtrails"

Does that fact that a patent exists mean that it is in use? or even works?? (no.)

you claimed Monsanto trying to develop aluminum resistant seeds was part of the plan...yet neglected to addres the fact the the earth is 8% aluminum and seed companies have been trying for decades to develop these seeds...long before "chemtrails".

It is you who is hysterically yelling and misleading people-


Yelling? ahhahaha And, if the earth is 8% aluminum...why the need to add more? Also, why the need to seek such patents......85 years ago. Are you telling me...that in 85 years...their idea never came to fruition? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah This is HUMOROUS.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by SolarIce


Just got to understand we're debating purely on what we've been told, have you ever seen a contrail first hand form from just a few feet away? If not then you are only going on by what you have been told to be true, and history has shown us time and time again that at any moment what we believe to be true can easily be proven false.



yes, I have seen a contrail up close and personal- moreover, I have experienced the same physical principals involved on the ground....thats the beauty of science- you do not just have to believe what you are told but can prove it to yourself should you care to make the effort.

I cannot prove that "chemtrails" don't exist....but I can prove the very premise of the theory is false.



PS:I take god out of my pocket before I wash my pants...



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by snalesnot

Originally posted by Thorazine

Originally posted by snalesnot


what the hell you expect them to say were killing you daily and causing health problems to lower population. i just hope everyone who thinks chemtrails is bs gets a weird disease n has autistic children or no children at all cause they are no longer able to. so why in winter isnt there lines all over the sky daily? is it not freezing temp? why do i see this # sprayed in 90 degrees summer days that stays all day spreading out blocking my rays? be sure to stock up on some GMO corn too thats very healthy for you.


Thats some classic stuff....if you disagree with me may harm come to you...

Alas, if "chemtrails" are for lowering the population, it seems to be a dismal failure as the population keeps going up.

Curious- when its 90 degrees out- what temperature do you think it is 6 miles above you at 35-40K feet?

its funny how you skipped the winter theory shouldnt there be lines all over the sky when its freezing temp in winter? yet its not. hurry n get that strange disease and respiratory problems so i can say i dont believe you
edit on 19-7-2012 by snalesnot because: (no reason given)


video i made last year peep it tell me this is normal looking skys
www.youtube.com...

edit on 19-7-2012 by snalesnot because: (no reason given)



Excellent video and I all most gagged at the looks of your sky but unfortunately we get the very same thing here in southern Ontario on a daily basis.

I wonder if this is conditioning for worse to come?
Regards, Iwinder



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