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A Challenge to Chemtrail Believers - Explain this 1969 Issue of Popular Science:

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posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by Uncinus
 


Sheesh ... I thought we had made this clear Uncinus


...STOP linking and peddling your OWN damn website which is full of NON verifiable data and blatant lies.


as opposed to all the verifiable truths that support the existence of chemtrails perhaps??

Oh....wait.....


Fortunately for the truth you do not get to set the rules of where Uncinus can link to.




posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by AndyMayhew
 


I'm sorry you made yourself unclear to me, and just like alot of people in this thread have taken me wrong, I never said I believe in chemtrails, nor have I said I dont, I refuse to accept anything as fact until it can be proven in multiple ways that it is indeed fact. I know contrails are fact for I see them everyday up above, but I've yet seen someone disprove that the government is indeed spraying something, unless of course we are going on the basis that the people who run things have everyones best interests at heart.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by Thorazine
 


exactly just as theres no evidence that they aren't doing it...see this is what it comes down to, NO ONE in this thread knows whats happening we are going on basis of what we're told is fact and fiction, we are told all contrails are contrails and that its not possible with todays technology that there could indeed be more going on up there then just simple contrails. Just as all the believers are simply going on what they think is happening even though there is no proof supporting it..


All im trying to get out there is that instead of everyone attacking each other this site and hell even the world would be a better place if we could discourse without personal attacks.
edit on 19-7-2012 by SolarIce because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by yorkshirelad

Originally posted by WiseThinker

So they do NOT believe, that every single aircraft is part of a depopulation conspiracy, nor do they deny contrails, or the lasting effect of them. They are claiming a conspiracy, where the military or private companies, are flying with specially fitted passenger planes which have been fitted with chem tanks instead.

Deny Ignorance


Namaste
edit on 18/7/12 by WiseThinker because: (no reason given)

And what maniac working in the military or these private companies is going to spary chemicals which will also affect themselves and their families.

Sorry but unless you can show me where all the chemtrail perpetrators are living (an air filtered bunker) where they are growing the crops to fed themselves (air filtered greenhouses) then this is ILLOGICAL NONSENSE.



The very same ones who approved the use of agent orange, the very same ones who approved the use of and continuous testing of nuclear weapons to this day, the very same ones who started all the wars in the Gulf without cause and without being provoked at all, I could go on and on here but I think I made my point.
Regards, Iwinder



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by SolarIce
reply to post by AndyMayhew
 


I'm sorry you made yourself unclear to me, and just like alot of people in this thread have taken me wrong, I never said I believe in chemtrails, nor have I said I dont, I refuse to accept anything as fact until it can be proven in multiple ways that it is indeed fact. I know contrails are fact for I see them everyday up above, but I've yet seen someone disprove that the government is indeed spraying something, unless of course we are going on the basis that the people who run things have everyones best interests at heart.


My apologies

I do not myself dispute the possibility that something is being sprayed (though on a large scale I consider it highly improbable) - only that if that were the case, we wouldn't see it.

What people claim to be chemtrails are chemtrails in the same way that rabbits are dragons. That does not mean dragons do not exist. But so far there is no evidence that dragons exists. So I do get fed up with pictures of rabbits claiming to be dragons .....
edit on 19-7-2012 by AndyMayhew because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by SolarIce
reply to post by Thorazine
 


exactly just as theres no evidence that they aren't doing it...see this is what it comes down to, NO ONE in this thread knows whats happening we are going on basis of what we're told is fact and fiction, we are told all contrails are contrails and that its not possible with todays technology that there could indeed be more going on up there then just simple contrails.


But that is a logic fail You cannot disprove a negative. Its like saying you cannot prove god doesn't exist.

That there is no evidence that they are doing it is, in fact, evidence that they are not doing it. Its not "proof" but it is evidence.

When all of the purported evidence of "chemtrails" turns out to be NOT actual evidence but only speculation, falsehoods and failures of logic...well, draw your own conclusions...



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus
Chemtrail believers claim that persistent contrails are a new thing, and they call the persistent trails "chemtrails". They also claims that contrails don't last a long time, and they certainly don't spread out and cause cirrus clouds and overcast skies. They also claim the chemtrails started in the late 1990s.

And yet, here's an issue of Popular Science, from 1969, 43 years ago, which says:






How Jet Planes affect weather

The reflectivity of the earth is also altered by jet contrails, say Dr. Walter Orr Roberts, director of the National Center for Atmospheric Research.

Contrails, Dr. Roberts explains, do not simply spread out at the 30-40,000-foot altitudes where jets fly, but spawn cirrus clouds by seeding the upper atmosphere with ice crystals from the water vapor in jet exhaust. On a clear day, you can often see this happening near heavily traveled airways.

"It is almost certain that on many occasions - 30 to 40 days a year, say - the cause of cirrus cloud cover can take in a substantial part of a continent, perhaps half of the U.S., and has a substantial influence on our radiation budget"

- Popular Science, May 1969, Page 76


So if contrails did this 43 years ago, and back then they were doing it for 30 to 40 days of the year, then why do some people insist that this is something new? Why the mantra of "contrails fade away, chemtrails persist and spread"? Clearly contrails quite frequently persist and spread, at least according to the science of 43 years ago.

So consider your options here, what could be going on?

A) The Popular Science Article is a modern fake. Clearly not true, Popular Science was a magazine with a very high circulation, and there are thousands of copies of this issue still in existence, all of which are the same. This particular copy I bought on eBay for $3. Many people have collections that include this copy. It's impossible for it to be a modern fake unless that includes having a time machine.

B) The Popular Science Article is 1969 Propaganda, brainwashing people for the chemtrails to come. If this were true it would be quite breathtakingly ambitious, risky, and entirely nonsensical. Why would they put an article in a magazine about something that they were not planning to do for 30 years? Why would they put descriptions of things that anyone with eyes could see were not happening at the time? They expect nobody to notice this blatant lie for 30 years?

C) The Popular Science Article is true. Contrails do quite often persist and spread and turn into cirrus clouds and affect the weather. The claims of movies like "What In The World Are They Spraying" are lies.

So what do you think, chemtrail believers? One of the above? Something else? Clearly someone is lying to you. Is it me? Is it Popular Science from 43 years ago? Or is it Michael J. Murphy?


what the hell you expect them to say were killing you daily and causing health problems to lower population. i just hope everyone who thinks chemtrails is bs gets a weird disease n has autistic children or no children at all cause they are no longer able to. so why in winter isnt there lines all over the sky daily? is it not freezing temp? why do i see this # sprayed in 90 degrees summer days that stays all day spreading out blocking my rays? be sure to stock up on some GMO corn too thats very healthy for you.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by snalesnot


what the hell you expect them to say were killing you daily and causing health problems to lower population. i just hope everyone who thinks chemtrails is bs gets a weird disease n has autistic children or no children at all cause they are no longer able to. so why in winter isnt there lines all over the sky daily? is it not freezing temp? why do i see this # sprayed in 90 degrees summer days that stays all day spreading out blocking my rays? be sure to stock up on some GMO corn too thats very healthy for you.


Thats some classic stuff....if you disagree with me may harm come to you...

Alas, if "chemtrails" are for lowering the population, it seems to be a dismal failure as the population keeps going up.

Curious- when its 90 degrees out- what temperature do you think it is 6 miles above you at 35-40K feet?



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by Thorazine
 





Its like saying you cannot prove god doesn't exist.


Exactly no one can prove God exist and no one can prove he doesn't. Honestly where were you going with that one?



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by SolarIce
reply to post by Thorazine
 





Its like saying you cannot prove god doesn't exist.


Exactly no one can prove God exist and no one can prove he doesn't. Honestly where were you going with that one?


It means chemtrails are like God

Belief in them is down to faith




posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by SolarIce

Exactly no one can prove God exist and no one can prove he doesn't. Honestly where were you going with that one?


But we can prove contrails exist...and persist...and spread...so...seeing one do so can't be considered evidence of something else..

One should (or could) be able to prove "chemtrails" exist...or at the very least provide some evidence...



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by SpittinTruth
How is it IRREFUTABLE??? Where are these FACTS and by whom? The same people EMPLOYED by the government, or the same ones ADMITTING they ARE spraying? Whether it be to block the suns rays or not; they're still SPRAYING. Also, do you THINK someone is gonna speak out? Man, where does the stupidity end? Yeah.....ok...those are "normal" persisting "contrails". Whatever you want to call them.

Nothing like seeing the sun disappear, on a PERFECTLY sunny day. Your "facts" are crap...and based on NOTHING!

Also, please explain this: why is MONSANTO's name, all over the place, when you RESEARCH regarding GEO-ENGINEERING?


Wow. You truly are a piece of work. Well, I guess you have got it all figured out. The world is flat. Chemtrails are real. Bigfoot lives in your neighborhood. And of course, science is wrong.

You deserve everything you get. I hope like hell that you go out in the world and express your views to everyone you see. If that laugh and walk away, it's because they agree with you. No, really.

Good luck in fantasy land.


No...YOU are a piece of work. You deny the very patents that these CORPORATIONS own. You deny the fact that GEO-ENGINEERING is a fact! You've denied MANY things. If anyone is in fantasy land...it's you. You should really TURN OFF THE TELEVISION....and READ! Unless, of course, you believe television has no effects on your brain!


Any topic (and i do mean ANY) you want to debate....i'd be MORE THAN HAPPY to shed some light, for you! Apparently, you're still just as blind as can be. Bats have better vision.

Good luck with your 'contrail' hogwash.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by SolarIce
 


There is a well known term "evidence of absence which should be looked at.

If there was some chemical spraying operation from airliners then there should be some physical evidence of it - systems on board the aircraft, systems to deliver materials to aircraft, documents, manuals, bills of sale, doctored fuel, etc.

So far there is a TOTAL absence of such evidence.

Some negatives can be proved - I can prove the absence of any elephants in my office by looking around my office ......yep - no elephants.

Similarly we can look at the aircraft that are suposedly doign this spraying and see that they are not fitted with any means of doing it. Nor is there any evidende that they ever had any means of doing it.

it is therefore a prefectly reasonable conclusion that they are NOT doing it.

by al means disagree - but it would be nice to have some proper reasons why this is wrong othe than i'm a shil, paid disingo agent, can't see the wood for the trees, and the rest of the usual avoiding any attempt to address the evidence that usually happens.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by Thorazine
 


Yeah, but you just told me Its "like saying you cannot prove god doesn't exist." Thats exactly the point You cant prove hes real and I cant prove hes not. The same goes for the chemtrails, sure we know contrails are real, but whose to say that some contrails aren't indeed chemtrails? Do you have proof other then the fact that planes create contrails? Wouldn't it be a fact that the government could use this to cover up true intentions perfectly? Of course once again this is all speculations because you have about as much proof as I do, only I dont deny its possible..



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 





If there was some chemical spraying operation from airliners then there should be some physical evidence of it - systems on board the aircraft, systems to deliver materials to aircraft, documents, manuals, bills of sale, doctored fuel, etc.


Aren't governments great as coving everything up until they choose to disclose it? Take project Manhattan as an example, only 100 people knew of it and they didn't even know what they were working on, and that SECRET project created the worlds most destructive weapon..




by al means disagree - but it would be nice to have some proper reasons why this is wrong othe than i'm a shil, paid disingo agent, can't see the wood for the trees, and the rest of the usual avoiding any attempt to address the evidence that usually happens.


oh please do read all my posts, I'm not siding with anyone, I just want to make it clear no one can be sure whats going on, and that the ones who choose to attack everyone for disagreeing with them are wrong. I mean were on a conspiracy board, chemtrails are taken as a conspiracy, they should be looked at from both sides until there can be more evidence then just simply saying well planes make contrails so every contrail you see is just that. I never said they are real, and I never said they were fake. All I want is for everyone to understand that anything is possible until truly proven otherwise.
edit on 19-7-2012 by SolarIce because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by Thorazine

Originally posted by SolarIce

Exactly no one can prove God exist and no one can prove he doesn't. Honestly where were you going with that one?


But we can prove contrails exist...and persist...and spread...so...seeing one do so can't be considered evidence of something else..

One should (or could) be able to prove "chemtrails" exist...or at the very least provide some evidence...


So, i guess these FACTS...are IRRELEVANT? Or, are these not considered FACTS??? Chemtrail Related Patents for "research"
Dude, GIVE IT UP ALREADY! You are SERIOUSLY MISLEADING PEOPLE!



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by SolarIce
[i Wouldn't it be a fact that the government could use this to cover up true intentions perfectly? Of course once again this is all speculations because you have about as much proof as I do, only I dont deny its possible..


Alas, we seem to be going in circles. to reiterate- the main theme of the theory is that the persistent trails HAVE to be "chemtrails" because contrail don't do that.

We know this to be false. That CAN be proved. Thus, the main theory is false.

It is possible that "they" could be spraying something...BUT there is NO evidence that it is happening.

So, in order to believe that it is...one must relying purely on faith. not fact...just faith.

Do you deny the possibility that god lives in my pocket? can you prove he doesn't?



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by SolarIce
 


oops I was wrong it had more then 130,000 people and cost nearly US$2 billion, but it was still kept under tight wraps even with that large number of people



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by AndyMayhew

Originally posted by Iwinder
No that is Geo engineering in all its glamor provided in that video.

There is no other word for it.
Regards, Iwinder


Technically yes. Such contrails do have an effect on atmospheric temperature so anyone who flies in a jet liner is contributing to "geoenginering", albeit in an inadvertant manner.


What inadvertent manner do you speak off here?........If something is poisoning us all how can that be called inadvertent?

If I decided to spray my yard for weeds and I just happen to use a poison (which you do) and kill the neighbours dog in the process Is that inadvertent too?

Regards, Iwinder



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by snalesnot
 

You actually look a bit slow yourself, you should be the new poster boy for chemtrailers
.
"Luk whut tha done chemtrail done done tuh me"




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