A Challenge to Chemtrail Believers - Explain this 1969 Issue of Popular Science:

Originally posted by SpittinTruth
Cute pics Unicus!

Now......PROVE TO ME.....that that is "normal"? Is your proof, the fact that it's the same phenomena that occured, 40+ years ago...therefore, if must be "normal"? How do you know, that what happened 40+ years ago, was "normal"? Are you telling me, planes aren't equipped to spray chemicals? Are you also telling me, that additives can't be added to fuel, to either "seed" or "unplant" clouds (for lack of a better phrase)? In other words, if they can make clouds, can they also make them disappear? There's sooooo much YOU don't know...but you act, as if you do.

BTW: is weather manipulation a "top secret" thing, or what?

Let me state: FOR THE RECORD, i do NOT believe they are spraying chemicals to harm us (that's ridiculous but not far-fetched)...but rather, to manipulate the weather.

Let me also state....that there hasn't been a plane in the sky, today. I SHOULD BE ABLE to see 1 with some kind of "contrail"....considering that today's temps are the same as yesterdays, right???? Or am i still missing something???? Please.......ENLIGHTEN ME?! Did the weather at 30,000 ft. change, or people just aren't flying today????

The persistence and spreading of ordinary exhaust contrails IS normal- has always occurred and HAS been proven scientifically for decades. That you haven't taken the time to find this out for yourself is troubling.

The basic physics is quite simple. Water vapor emitted in exhaust condenses and freezes into ice crystals. If the air is humid they will persist, if the air is dry they will dissipate. ANYONE can prove this to themselves. It even happen on the ground in the form of ice fog.

The atmosphere is not a static parcel of air- it can change from altitude to altitude, spot to spot and day to day. Even if the weather on the ground is the same- that does not mean conditions 6 miles up have not changed. Some days lots of persistent contrails, some days only dissipating contrails, some days no contrails at all, some days a mix of all 3.... they are many factors that go into any given contrail at any given spot at any given moment.

How do you know there has not been any planes in the sky? Would you see it if it didn't leave a contrail even though its 6-20 miles away? Did they stop flying? or did the conditions at flight altitude change?

Weather modification is NOT "top secret"- its been done for decades- feel free to hire a company for yourself:

www.weathermodification.com...

Originally posted by SpittinTruth
Cute pics Unicus!

Now......PROVE TO ME.....that that is "normal"? Is your proof, the fact that it's the same phenomena that occured, 40+ years ago...therefore, if must be "normal"? How do you know, that what happened 40+ years ago, was "normal"? Are you telling me, planes aren't equipped to spray chemicals? Are you also telling me, that additives can't be added to fuel, to either "seed" or "unplant" clouds (for lack of a better phrase)? In other words, if they can make clouds, can they also make them disappear? There's sooooo much YOU don't know...but you act, as if you do.

But the thing I wanted to establish in this thread was that the same phenomena occurred 40 years ago (which you seem to accept), hence those who continue to claim it did not (after seeing this evidence) are lying. (That's not to say people who don't remember it are lying, just that they either did not see it, or they don't remember seeing it).

BTW: is weather manipulation a "top secret" thing, or what?

Cloud seeding certainly is not. Of course there might some other top secret weather manipulation.

Let me also state....that there hasn't been a plane in the sky, today. I SHOULD BE ABLE to see 1 with some kind of "contrail"....considering that today's temps are the same as yesterdays, right???? Or am i still missing something???? Please.......ENLIGHTEN ME?! Did the weather at 30,000 ft. change, or people just aren't flying today????

I should let you know.....where i live, is rather UNIQUE.

At 30,000 feet, the wind is commonly in the 50 to 100 mph range. That means the weather above you can be the weather that 24 hours ago was 2,400 miles away, even if the weather on the ground stays about the same.

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85
reply to post by Uncinus

 

Planes and chemicals and science have been around a lot longer than the 1960's.......


You do realize they could have done this in the 1920's/30's/40's/50's right ?

O wait you never thought of that because you already know everything.

But the point I'm making is that most chemtrail promoters claim it DID NOT happen before around 1996. If it happened in the 1960s, then they are wrong. Their continued insistence of this is a lie.

And yes, it did happen in the 1920s. There were persistent spreading contrails in 1921:

contrailscience.com...

From: US. Air Service Newsletter, July, 1921, p. 13:

An altitude flight was made in the morning at McCook Field recently by Lieut. J. A. Macready in a La Pere with supercharged Liberty [engine]. When the airplane reached a height of 26,000-27,000 feet at 11:50 a.m., a long feathery white streamer was observed forming behind a rapidly moving dark speck. The cloud was of the cirrus variety, well defined at the edges and apparently 10 to 15 times the width of the plane. The sky behind the first portion was clear blue with no clouds in the near neighborhood. The first streamer seemed perhaps 2 miles long. Then a gap of one-quarter mile. The second streamer formed with a background of light cirrus cloud and after 2 or 3 miles the plane seemed to go into the cirrus background, for the streamer formation ceased while an apparent path of blue continued beyond for a way in the cirrus cloud. The whole streamer may have been 3 miles long. After 20 minutes the streamer had drifted and spread until it merged indistinguishably with the other cirrus clouds visible.

reply to post by Uncinus


As I said before in this forum chemtrails started in the sixties to combat the fear of the global cooling that was the rage of the over educated at the time. Since they haven't stopped you can be absolutely certain they have been major contributers to the global warming touted by the more recent over educated and still no sense people today. I work near Logan airport and have for 25+ years and have observed commercial airplanes and planes spraying chemtrails fly nearly side by side on the same flight path and the commercial contrail disappears not more than 5 planes lengths from the aircraft as it flies and is gone from sight within a minute of the plane being out of sight. The chemtrails from the other craft stay in the air for up to hours after the aircraft went out of sight, sometimes actually forming cloudlike coverage. You listen to the governments coverup people at your children and grand children's risk.

reply to post by tmeister182
To some of the more insistent and combative supporters of this theory. Let me just state the following:

Stick, meet dead horse.

-saige-

Compare these two posts:

Originally posted by WeRpeons
I'm on the fence with this issue. I was a teenager back in 1969 and back than we spent a lot of time outdoors playing basketball, baseball you name it. We didn't stay indoors all day playing video games. We daydreamed on many days after playing all day in the hot sun. We would lie in the grass on our backs just looking at the sky and clouds.

We all lived only 3 miles from an international airport, and being outside all that time, nothing unusual would escape us from attracting our attention. We would see many contrails produced by jets coming and going from the airport. However, there was never the extremely wide contrails or cross patterns that we see today. The contrails today are being noticed because they are simply unusual. Common things in everyday life do not attract attention.

Originally posted by tmeister182
As I said before in this forum chemtrails started in the sixties to combat the fear of the global cooling that was the rage of the over educated at the time. Since they haven't stopped you can be absolutely certain they have been major contributers to the global warming touted by the more recent over educated and still no sense people today. I work near Logan airport and have for 25+ years and have observed commercial airplanes and planes spraying chemtrails fly nearly side by side on the same flight path and the commercial contrail disappears not more than 5 planes lengths from the aircraft as it flies and is gone from sight within a minute of the plane being out of sight. The chemtrails from the other craft stay in the air for up to hours after the aircraft went out of sight, sometimes actually forming cloudlike coverage. You listen to the governments coverup people at your children and grand children's risk.

Two people, one who does not remember persistent contrails, and one who does.

Assuming both people are being honest (and I do not doubt it), then does this not indicate that persistent contrails DID exist? It's much easier to forget or not notice something than it is to create a particular memory of something.

Originally posted by tmeister182
]

. I work near Logan airport and have for 25+ years and have observed commercial airplanes and planes spraying chemtrails fly nearly side by side on the same flight path and the commercial contrail disappears not more than 5 planes lengths from the aircraft as it flies and is gone from sight within a minute of the plane being out of sight. The chemtrails from the other craft stay in the air for up to hours after the aircraft went out of sight, sometimes actually forming cloudlike coverage.

you mean like this picture??



how come all of these commercial planes' contrails are not dissipating after 5 plane lengths??

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Coincidentally, the VOODOO1 test aircraft is in the air RIGHT NOW, currently circling over Catalina:

flightaware.com...

(Time is EDT, so 11AM PDT)

Unfortunately it's not contrail weather today in SoCal, so it's not leaving any persistent trails, but you might see something short from Long Beach or Orange County coastline.

home.iae.nl...

Chem trails would be dispensed at night when they will be the most likely to descend without wind dissipating them and not be seen . They have existed since 1959 and or before when San Francisco was sprayed from the Pacific by the Navy . Contrails are commonplace with high altitude aviation and are most likely not related to chem-trails although some chem trails would have to be disbursed during the day . The whole crux of the story is that we do not trust our military /government anymore and for many reasons . We are the enemy of our own Military / government because we may challenge their power .A military's purpose is the killing of the enemy . That is their only reason for existing . If you go to unplug their means of existence you will quickly become the enemy . With power comes paranoia .

.....so you sling Popular Science around....the same magazine that scoffs the idea that bombs were in the World Trade Center towers; even though there are hundreds of videos from that day where you can hear, and see them.

Let me not even go into all the videos from the firefighters who say the lobby floor was 'blown up' from underneath them......

Then, the same PS magazine scoffs the idea of Alien Abductions and MILABS...though there have been thousands of victims, and thousands that say they have visitation (many times accompanied by videos that are confirmed 'genuine').


The US government used Chaff in WW2 to create fake clouds to mask movements, the same way that they now use them to reflect the UV rays from the sun that are mutated. Hell, I remember when you were a 'conspiracy theorist' if you believed that the chemtrails were anything other than contrails NOW THE US GOVERNMENT ADMITS THEY ARE SPRAYING CHEMICALS ON US EVERYDAY.....with a pretty little word they invented called 'Geo engineering'.

Popular Science Magazine: Only 'Establishment Con'-not the reality.

Perhaps, we should just call them "trails"...since neither side knows EXACTLY what they are. Aren't both parties, chemtrail and contrail believers, purely SPECULATING? The only difference, for me, is that it IS effecting the weather. Whatever "IT" is!

Originally posted by SimonPeter

home.iae.nl...

Chem trails would be dispensed at night when they will be the most likely to descend without wind dissipating them and not be seen . They have existed since 1959 and or before when San Francisco was sprayed from the Pacific by the Navy . Contrails are commonplace with high altitude aviation and are most likely not related to chem-trails although some chem trails would have to be disbursed during the day . The whole crux of the story is that we do not trust our military /government anymore and for many reasons . We are the enemy of our own Military / government because we may challenge their power .A military's purpose is the killing of the enemy . That is their only reason for existing . If you go to unplug their means of existence you will quickly become the enemy . With power comes paranoia .

Most of your post seems level headed and logical, however there is one fallacy.

The dispurtion of chemicals in the air conducted at night would react the same as if they were disperssed during the day. The wind does not stop blowing at night.

-saige-

reply to post by SimonPeter

The whole crux of the story is that we do not trust our military /government anymore and for many reasons . We are the enemy of our own Military / government because we may challenge their power .A military's purpose is the killing of the enemy . That is their only reason for existing . If you go to unplug their means of existence you will quickly become the enemy . With power comes paranoia

Well said. And if I might add, "If you can't convince them, confuse them." Harry Truman

Originally posted by Mac405
Popular Science Magazine: Only 'Establishment Credibility'-not the reality.

Like I said, there are hundreds of other sources. Also lots of people, including people right here on ATS, who say the same thing.

Do you actually disagree with the 1969 Popular Science article, or just making a general point?

The OP may not see this, but chemtrails also have something else in them. An archaea is in them.

There have been reports of strain-like fibers found in people. This is impervious to flame, water, and really hard to break down even by force or acids.

Ok, fine and dandy, but what does that have to do with all of us?

This might be a sick notion but whoever is controlling the chemtrails is turning us, the people, into machine-like beings, and they want it on them as well. Something that can only be thought of a psychopath that wants to be something of a Borg.

Now I have a cloudbuster that makes or gathers clouds in the sky and it's a heck of a lot cheaper than spraying the sky with poison.

Originally posted by SpittinTruth
Perhaps, we should just call them "trails"...since neither side knows EXACTLY what they are. Aren't both parties, chemtrail and contrail believers, purely SPECULATING? The only difference, for me, is that it IS effecting the weather. Whatever "IT" is!

Contrail though are a proven and expected thing. If the air is ice supersaturated, then a plane flying through it MUST leave a persistent spreading contrail. It's just basic physics. So we know for a fact that contrails exist, and are an inevitable byproduct of aviation.

"Chemtrails", on the other hand, are just speculation. Sure they might exist, but there's no evidence to suggest that they do. And saying "contrails quickly fade away, chemtrails don't" is just wrong.

So sure, point at trails in the sky, and call them trails. Heck, maybe it's a jet dumping fuel, or a smoke vortex test. You can't know 100% that it's a contrail. But given that contrails must exist, and have been observed for nearly 100 years, it's certainly the more likely explanation.

It's like if you look up in the night sky, and you see a moving flashing light travel across it. Sure, we can't say it's a plane. It might be an alien spacecraft. But given that we know planes are very common, the most likely thing is that it's just a plane. It looks like a plane, and we expect to see planes.

Same thing with the trails. Most likely thing is they are just contrails. They look and act like contrails, and contrails are what we would expect to see.

True the wind blows always, sometimes? Wind speeds usually decrease at night due to lessened heating when the sun sets . An area of dissipation can be more reliably calculated with less wind .Heat drives wind especially where terrain and water causes uneven heating . This can also happen where terrain features vary .But for the best exposure rate the daytime would have more people out and about to contract and spread the agent . reply to post by saige45

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by Mac405
Popular Science Magazine: Only 'Establishment Credibility'-not the reality.

Like I said, there are hundreds of other sources. Also lots of people, including people right here on ATS, who say the same thing.

Do you actually disagree with the 1969 Popular Science article, or just making a general point?

Maaaaaan...people aren't awake. They can only remember back 40+ years...completely IGNORING the fact, that these people (TPTB) have been running and ruling our planet, for THOUSANDS of years. They don't plan for 10 or 15 years...they plan things, 100's of years, in ADVANCE! You're the one that's slow and behind!

You really should learn something about the inhabitants that rule our world!

Is that Geo -engineering really population engineering . Euginics has deep roots in the NWO /UN society . reply to post by Mac405

Originally posted by SpittinTruth
Maaaaaan...people aren't awake. They can only remember back 40+ years...completely IGNORING the fact, that these people (TPTB) have been running and ruling our planet, for THOUSANDS of years. They don't plan for 10 or 15 years...they plan things, 100's of years, in ADVANCE! You're the one that's slow and behind!

You really should learn something about the inhabitants that rule our world!

Hmm, so they were planning the chemtrail thing from before planes were even invented? I'm sorry, but that just sounds ridiculous.

Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that persistent contrails WERE around 40 years ago, and chemtrail promoters are deliberately misleading people about that.