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A Challenge to Chemtrail Believers - Explain this 1969 Issue of Popular Science:

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posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by daddio

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by chadderson
reply to post by Uncinus
 


So non chemical trails can create clouds. Ok.


But the issue here is that most chemtrail believers, especially those who promote the theory with their "documentaries" claim that non-chemical trails cannot, or that it's incredibly rare. This shows they are wrong. And this has been pointed out to them so many times that it's quite difficult to claim they are not lying.

Ask any hardcore chemtrailer - they will tell you "contrails quickly dissipate, chemtrails spread out to cover the sky". They are wrong, they have been lied to.




Really, I believe NONE of what I read and half of what I see. Cloud "seeding" has been around almost as long as the airplane. What a dumb goddamn thing to post, because a 1969 article said so, it must be true. Too funny.


I especially like this part:


Ask any hardcore chemtrailer - they will tell you "contrails quickly dissipate, chemtrails spread out to cover the sky". They are wrong, they have been lied to.


So, who's lying to me? Who keeps forcing their 'popular science' magazine around? YOU sir, Unicus are the liar! You keep telling the chemtrail believers that what they're seeing, is "normal"....because it's in your stupid little magazine.

Don't forget, TPTB have to tell us....as discretely as possible....what their plans are. As long as they give us SOME truth, mixed in with all the lies, everything is gravy. All YOU have to do....is find SOME truth; just SOME, not much!

Oh, and let me also define IGNORANT. Ignorant is another word for UNINFORMED; and you contrails kooks are highly UNINFORMED.




posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 11:21 AM
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This topic is dead - studies have proven that in the days following 9/11 average temps rose nearly 1 degree due to lack of air travel. There's nothing nefarious about them, modern f1 cars also create small contrails too that doesn't mean it's the Illuminati. It just means that something moving at high speeds has an effect that can be seen.

Also they really don't need smoke planes when jet fuel containing carcinogens rains down on us daily from normal air travel.
edit on 19-7-2012 by circuitsports because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by WiseThinker
Now i argue neither for nor against the chem-trails, however do not dumb down chemtrail believers to rednecks with to much time, just like the mainstream labels us tin foil hats.

I agree, there are videos on youtube, that make the whole chem trail scenario seam implausible, and in some cases videos where they are blatantly claiming contrails to be "chemtrails", and those who claim every thing is a chemtrail. But lets be honest, i can find videos completely miss representing pretty much any theory on here, making is sound like utter BS.

However, i can tell you, that those who truly believe in chem trails and went done their research believe along these lines :

1. First of, only a few, unmarked and specially fitted airplanes spread the Chemicals
2. Contrails are normal, and can cause cloud cover
3. Will refer to instances, when the unmarked planes, did checker patterns back and forth (with multiple visible U turns, just back and fourth)
4. Incidents, where after checkered sky, local epidemics start (Only very few of these)

So they do NOT believe, that every single aircraft is part of a depopulation conspiracy, nor do they deny contrails, or the lasting effect of them. They are claiming a conspiracy, where the military or private companies, are flying with specially fitted passenger planes which have been fitted with chem tanks instead.

Deny Ignorance


Namaste
edit on 18/7/12 by WiseThinker because: (no reason given)


Very well written. Thank you. And most of what you said absolutely explains my experience - minus the drones. Not sure about that - but definitely checkered sky in an area where you neither see nor hear commercial aircraft. I've lived and worked near a major airport, also in an area with high traffic (yes I see the trails), and two areas with VERY little traffic. What I have witnessed is extremely unusual. Can't really say whether their was any sort of local epidemic, but my theory would be this is still technology that "whoever" is still developing, that specific areas are targeted, and then perhaps through monitoring hospital or ER visits (or something else) they determine whether their weapon/solution/whatever is working or is not.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by weknowall
reply to post by saige45
 


No, NO, NO. This has nothing to do with spoke and hub routing my friend. This isnt a tic-tac-toe board made by several planes flying out of a location or into one. This is ONE single jet literally flying 2 straight lines parallel to each other, maybe 5 miles long, then doing the same thing ACROSS those 2 lines with 2 more, therfore forming a tic-tac-toe playing board in the sky. THEN flying 5 miles or so east of that and repeating that process again. And again and again. Until after several hours you can look back across the skyline and see it totally covered by these spreading trail lines across the whole freaking sky!!!! ONE AIRPLANE!!! ONE!!!
Why? Why would a plane need to do that?
Can you explain that to me?
edit on 19-7-2012 by weknowall because: cuz


Sounds like it could be a plane flying in a high altitude hold, in a racetrack pattern. From the ground it can look a bit criss-cross like, but really it's flying in long oval shapes. I've seen this a couple of time myself, see here:
contrailscience.com...

Here's a radar track of one such flight off the coast of Los Angeles:


Here's a satellite image of the resultant contrails, they have been blown towards the east, making it even more grid-like:



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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Am i missing something? Don't we all breathe same air? Why would whoever is ideciding to spray poison the same air they and their loved ones breathe?



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


Sheesh ... I thought we had made this clear Uncinus


...STOP linking and peddling your OWN damn website which is full of NON verifiable data and blatant lies.

Also.... I thought you were going to change the name?

clearly contrailscience is a deception since the scientific method has not been applied in any of your debunking..

So maybe ..... chemtraildebunker dot com or something.

edit on 19-7-2012 by dplum517 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by SpittinTruth
I especially like this part:


Ask any hardcore chemtrailer - they will tell you "contrails quickly dissipate, chemtrails spread out to cover the sky". They are wrong, they have been lied to.


So, who's lying to me? Who keeps forcing their 'popular science' magazine around? YOU sir, Unicus are the liar! You keep telling the chemtrail believers that what they're seeing, is "normal"....because it's in your stupid little magazine.


Not at all, I gave you three options. A) Fake, B) Propaganda from 43 years ago, or C) True.

You chose option B. Fair enough. You think that 43 years ago they were planning this whole chemtrail thing, and so were telling people that persistent contrails were normal, even though they were not going to start doing it for another 30 years.

But don't you realize how unlikely that is? What if someone had actually read the article in 1969? They would have said: "wait, contrails don't persist". The game would be up. But wait - Popular Science had an audience of over a million readers! And mostly nerdy scientific types. But nobody noticed the error?

And surely you realize this is NOT the only source. There are hundreds of things I could quote that say the same thing from over 30 years ago. There are NONE that say the opposite. The only reason I picked this "silly little magazine" was that it is impossible to fake, and easy to verify.

Not only are there these hundreds of documentary sources, books, newspapers, photos, scientific studies, magazines, etc., there are also all the people who remember persistent contrails. When there was a survey thread on ATS, over half the people who participated had memories of persistent contrails. Were they all imagining it?

My point is NOT "all trails are contrails". It's quite possible that some trails are not. There's no evidence to suggest that, but we can't rule it out. No, the point is that the claim that "contrails quickly dissipate, chemtrails persist and spread" is a hoax and a lie. The Popular Science article demonstrates this quite convincingly, but it's just 0.01% of the available evidence that it's a hoax and a lie. People who continue to promote this hoax are acting like liars.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by explorer14
 
Very nice summation.

-saige-



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by Uncinus
 


Sheesh ... I thought we had made this clear Uncinus

...STOP linking and peddling your OWN damn website which is full of NON verifiable data and blatant lies.


Point out one blatant lie.

The two images I posted from the "Voodoo Contrails" post are entirely verifiable. Here's the flight track:
flightaware.com...
And the satellite image:
lance-modis.eosdis.nasa.gov...



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by 3danimator
 
Because the reptilians gave them pills that they can put in their loved ones water that makes the ill effects of the poisonous chemtrails seem like a mild flu.

Unfortunately, the flights that the pills were on mysteriously crashed in fresh water sources when a project blue beam test misfired causing their engines to burn extra hot thereby causing a mysterious trail to form behind them. Of note, this project blue beam test fire was aimed at Comet Elenin in preparation for taking care of Nibiru when it passes our way on 12/21/2012. Oh, the dispersal of pills reached full general population coverage on May 21st of this year.

-saige-



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by daddio


Really, I believe NONE of what I read and half of what I see. Cloud "seeding" has been around almost as long as the airplane. What a dumb goddamn thing to post, because a 1969 article said so, it must be true. Too funny.


what's so damn funny is that you would not comprehend the damn difference between cloud seeding and chemtrails.

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too funny.

BWahahahahahahahahahahahahah



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by Uncinus
 


Sheesh ... I thought we had made this clear Uncinus


...STOP linking and peddling your OWN damn website which is full of NON verifiable data and blatant lies.



How about listing any of the blatant lies?

Put up or shut up.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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I'm on the fence with this issue. I was a teenager back in 1969 and back than we spent a lot of time outdoors playing basketball, baseball you name it. We didn't stay indoors all day playing video games. We daydreamed on many days after playing all day in the hot sun. We would lie in the grass on our backs just looking at the sky and clouds.

We all lived only 3 miles from an international airport, and being outside all that time, nothing unusual would escape us from attracting our attention. We would see many contrails produced by jets coming and going from the airport. However, there was never the extremely wide contrails or cross patterns that we see today. The contrails today are being noticed because they are simply unusual. Common things in everyday life do not attract attention.

I and a majority of other older adults who grew up during the sixties and seventies can probably verify that these contrail are not anything that we observed growing up. Could these contrails be so different because the technology of jet engines have changed causing the abnormal looking contrails? That could be a good possibility, but how do you explain the grid and crossing patterns? Where we lived, there were days we would see many contrails crossing each other, but not in such a symmetrical crossing grid pattern.

Until a reporter can examine a plane, record the plane taking off and duplicating these extremely wide contrails, I
won't be jumping off the fence anytime soon. I could only relate my experience with what I've seen with my own eyes.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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Just looking at a patent list from July 18th 1945. Very interesting. Kinda makes that artical look a tad silly. We are seeing planes spraying all the time. They are not contrails, as we have witnessed many passenger planes flying higher leaving no trails, with planes lower down emitting chemtrails. There are an astonishing amount during the night, they even line up alongside each other and spray in unison. To say nothing is going on is strange. Not here to offend those that dont believe, but the contrail argument should'nt even be an issue. There is a huge difference between the two. Anyone can come to Kent, England and see for yourself. Many people are noticing these now, due to the fact they realise contrails are different. Even some ex armed forces who we know say they are not contrails. Here is the link to the patents. Peace


Patents 1945



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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Cute pics Unicus!
Now......PROVE TO ME.....that that is "normal"? Is your proof, the fact that it's the same phenomena that occured, 40+ years ago...therefore, if must be "normal"? How do you know, that what happened 40+ years ago, was "normal"? Are you telling me, planes aren't equipped to spray chemicals? Are you also telling me, that additives can't be added to fuel, to either "seed" or "unplant" clouds (for lack of a better phrase)? In other words, if they can make clouds, can they also make them disappear? There's sooooo much YOU don't know...but you act, as if you do.

BTW: is weather manipulation a "top secret" thing, or what?

Let me state: FOR THE RECORD, i do NOT believe they are spraying chemicals to harm us (that's ridiculous but not far-fetched)...but rather, to manipulate the weather.

Let me also state....that there hasn't been a plane in the sky, today. I SHOULD BE ABLE to see 1 with some kind of "contrail"....considering that today's temps are the same as yesterdays, right???? Or am i still missing something???? Please.......ENLIGHTEN ME?! Did the weather at 30,000 ft. change, or people just aren't flying today????

I should let you know.....where i live, is rather UNIQUE.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


Planes and chemicals and science have been around a lot longer than the 1960's.......


You do realize they could have done this in the 1920's/30's/40's/50's right ?

O wait you never thought of that because you already know everything.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by ooScotty
Just looking at a patent list from July 18th 1945. Very interesting. Kinda makes that artical look a tad silly. We are seeing planes spraying all the time. They are not contrails, as we have witnessed many passenger planes flying higher leaving no trails, with planes lower down emitting chemtrails. There are an astonishing amount during the night, they even line up alongside each other and spray in unison. To say nothing is going on is strange. Not here to offend those that dont believe, but the contrail argument should'nt even be an issue. There is a huge difference between the two. Anyone can come to Kent, England and see for yourself. Many people are noticing these now, due to the fact they realise contrails are different. Even some ex armed forces who we know say they are not contrails. Here is the link to the patents. Peace


Patents 1945


Will take it one step further......the name Monsanto, seems to pop up, when talking about "chemtrails" or "geo-engineering". So, i'm thinking (with the recent drought) that perhaps, they're now using these "trails" to make the drought happen, across the states? Maybe, the only crops that will survive are Monsanto crops?

Some of you, 'contrail' theorists, need to wake up to the POSSIBILITIES. You people are still living in the stone ages! In case you didn't realize it....we live in a CONTROLLED environment; and they're about to CONTROL us even more. Now, tell me i'm lying?!



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by SpittinTruth
Please.......ENLIGHTEN ME?! Did the weather at 30,000 ft. change, or people just aren't flying today????


It changes constantly. Every minute of every day.

Here are a few things to look up while you gloat.

Jetsream

Clouds

Internal combustion engines

Common sense

enjoy.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by WeRpeons
We all lived only 3 miles from an international airport, and being outside all that time, nothing unusual would escape us from attracting our attention. We would see many contrails produced by jets coming and going from the airport. However, there was never the extremely wide contrails or cross patterns that we see today. The contrails today are being noticed because they are simply unusual. Common things in everyday life do not attract attention.


But haven't you noticed that the vast majority of people pay no attention to contrails, persistent or otherwise?

There are MANY people who DO remember the persistent wide contrails. So how to explain that?



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:48 PM
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The world is fu**ed anyways... humans someone learned to destroy a planet in about a century
You people actually think chemtrials are our first worry here? Look at the condition of planet Earth. Look at the health of human kind. Look at the extinction level of animals in the past century... Theres more to argue and worry about then lines in the sky. Get over it and do something functional and beneficial for you, your people, and YOUR PLANET.

~ Love is an art



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