A Challenge to Chemtrail Believers - Explain this 1969 Issue of Popular Science:

You have no clue how the military operates do you?
The military is not a democracy, its a fascist dictatorship with strict hierarchical structure. Therefore, if you get an order, and you disobey it, there will be disciplinary action taken.

You live in a fairy tale where military personnel can opt out of missions -.-.

Also most important and/or secret projects are split into as many groups as possible, so that no one working on it, will know what the full product/project is or how it will be used.

Therefore, if this is indeed going on, then it is most likely, military pilots, being told to fly this plane, over this route, and no more information.

Please think before you post....

Namaste

I assume you have been in the military and that, of course you are a human being with free will yes?

I am ex-British forces myself and I left... because I was sick of the blatant abuse of power by high-ranking officers and the fact that they got away with allsorts just because of the old boys network.... It's not a "fairy tale" that troops can opt out of missions any more than its a fairy tale that you could just walk out of your job tomorrow. Of course, you would have to face the consequences, same as the military chaps, but, that would be of little significance when stacked against the horrendous damage you're being asked to do
Everyone has free will and if you are suggesting that they (the soldiers/airmen involved) would cheerfully spray carcinogens on their own kids for the sake of their careers then I feel sorry for you... What a total lack of faith in the humanity and decency of others. It must be a bleak world you live in.... If someone had told me to start spraying god knows what over the populace I'd have told them to stick it, and if that meant getting banged in the glasshouse then so be it.... Despite what the MSM would have you believe, most people in the world still have a strong sense of decency and moral values...

reply to post by network dude

Debunker: "look at these thousands of scientific sources that explain why contrails are like clouds!"

Chemmie: " Your stupid, your a disinfo agent! I know what I see! i don't need your science, I have my chicken bones I can throw against the wall to find my truth!"

Bwahhahahaha ..... thousands? Nice exaggeration buddy.

There are a few legitimate scientific studies that are verifiable and not filled with propaganda.

One of them being the study done by NASA and Colorado University decades ago. Contrails look like clouds? Sorry, they look like trails out of planes. I guess.... they are both white.

Debunker: We know contrails exist and can linger sometimes.

Me: Okay, what's your point?

Debunker: Chemtrails can NEVER exist!!!! LALALALALALALALALA

reply to post by saige45


No, NO, NO. This has nothing to do with spoke and hub routing my friend. This isnt a tic-tac-toe board made by several planes flying out of a location or into one. This is ONE single jet literally flying 2 straight lines parallel to each other, maybe 5 miles long, then doing the same thing ACROSS those 2 lines with 2 more, therfore forming a tic-tac-toe playing board in the sky. THEN flying 5 miles or so east of that and repeating that process again. And again and again. Until after several hours you can look back across the skyline and see it totally covered by these spreading trail lines across the whole freaking sky!!!! ONE AIRPLANE!!! ONE!!!
Why? Why would a plane need to do that?
Can you explain that to me?

There is nothing to explain. I remember seeing massive volumes of low altitude streamers behind planes in Atlanta that could only be explained by deliberate spraying. One of the trails had a little pigtail like extension that followed along parallel, obviously that spray nozzle was partially obstructed. Of course 'Popular Science' logic would say it was a faulty jet engine. I sure wouldn't want to be aboard that plane.

reply to post by weknowall
I do not have an answer.

I do not have an answer for many reasons:

1. I have never witnessesed such an occurance in order to warrant an investigation (this is not to say that I don't believe what you have seen).

2. I am not the pilot of these types of flights to give a direct reason for their existence, if any.

As such any reason that I give would be purely a guess based reason.

After a cursory search, I find that Grissom is an AFB in Indiana. It houses the 434th Air Refueling Wing of the Air Force Reserve Command. This could lead to one possible reason, Air Refueling missions.

No matter the reason given though, It doesn't matter. I am not providing a point of fact reason.

-saige-

I'll go with explanation letter B!

Thanks for your pointless thread.

I always get confused with the chemtrail contrail argument.

I think to say contrails dont exist is just stupid as its clear you can see them. They are produced by the ice crystals that are formed when a jet engine tears through the upper atmosphere.

But what I dont get about chemtrails is that there are so many different theories as to why they are doing this. Like to release poisons or toxin to harm us so we get sick and have to keep buying medicines. Or to alter the weather for what ever the hell reason they want like cause floods that destroys infer structure that then needs to be rebuilt at tax payers expense.

Which is it? or are they doing both? can it be proven?

reply to post by Milkflavour


I agree, that Soldiers have free will, however, if you joined the Army, you did agree to them controlling you, until you opt out of the Army (im saying you cannot simply opt out of one mission).

And you clearly didn't read what you even quoted. As i stated, then if this is going on (spreading of chemtrails) then it stands to reason, that the whole process and been compartmentalized like other high priority military projects, to prevent information to get out, limit whistle blowers and to prevent the left hand from knowing what left hand is doing.

That way, the pilots spreading the Chemicals, have no clue what they are doing.

Read before you post, goodness this thread is a mess.

Namaste

reply to post by weknowall


If we can all agree that persistent contrail can and do exist, then.......we can all agree that airplanes can and do fly over where you live, then........we can all agree that on days when condition exist for persistent con trails to form at altitudes where said planes are flying.........are you following this logic?

Some planes fly on the same path going east to west, some fly on the same path going north to south. OMG! if you were to plot those paths on a map and allow for wind drift, you would see.............................................................................................wait for it................................................................
A checkerboard pattern.

Or there are thousands of people forced to keep this program secret and have been able to do so for 25 years but manage to spill every other damn thing they know.





The bad man may in fact be plotting to do bad things to you. But I think he can find much easier ways to do it.

Ok, I had an experience myself yesterday with a jetliner and contrail/chemtrail. I'm driving home, sitting at a stop light and see a jet that is high altitude and flying through or above intermittent thin clouds. Now I couldnt tell for sure, but it looked as though the con/chemtrail stopped when the jet went through/above the clouds. (Yes, I obviously understand the cloud could be hindering my view of the con/chemtrail... and that was my thought process) So the con/chemtrail was solid, then stopped/was hidden in the clouds, then continued when it came out/from behind the clouds and so on. But I kept watching and the most recent part of the con/chemtrail dissipated. So I saw this long persistent con/chemtrail, broken by clouds, and the most recent part (directly behind the jet) then dissipate, as if just that portion was contrail (water vapor). Which now leads me to believe that it must be the atmosphere that determines the trail.

I suppose it could be a chemtrail, then the "jets" quit spraying, a natural contrail formed and that was what I saw dissipate. But what are the odds that I actually see that sequence? I'm sure that's a confusing and unexciting story, but that's what I saw yesterday and I this chemtrail thread is on the front page and I'd thought I'd share my experience.

Adios.

Originally posted by ZombieJesus
reply to post by SpittinTruth

 

Hook, line, and sinker

I'll leave you with a quote from W.C. Fields

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull#.

To bad you cant even baffle with your own bull#, all you can do is regurgitate someone elses.

All i do is regurgitate someone else's? This coming from someone who starts off with a 'quote'. Please. Next topic...you're nothing more than a parrot. I don't have time to school you, on "old" news. You're the one in DENIAL....not me.

Originally posted by weknowall
reply to post by saige45

 

No, NO, NO. This has nothing to do with spoke and hub routing my friend. This isnt a tic-tac-toe board made by several planes flying out of a location or into one. This is ONE single jet literally flying 2 straight lines parallel to each other, maybe 5 miles long, then doing the same thing ACROSS those 2 lines with 2 more, therfore forming a tic-tac-toe playing board in the sky. THEN flying 5 miles or so east of that and repeating that process again. And again and again. Until after several hours you can look back across the skyline and see it totally covered by these spreading trail lines across the whole freaking sky!!!! ONE AIRPLANE!!! ONE!!!
Why? Why would a plane need to do that?
Can you explain that to me?

edit on 19-7-2012 by weknowall because: cuz

Please post a video of this one plane flying back and forth over your head. If you can prove that one simple thing, you will have proved chemtrails can and do exist. If you find that it's many different planes and not just one, I think you will have to look at your own theory and explore your common sense side.

I'm gonna stray off a little here....... while watching the entire movie of Woodstock filmed in Aug of 1969 .. there is a little interview with some kids that are kind of bugging out .One kid is ranting that he saw planes coming by and spraying stuff and he was convinced that it was the cause of the three days of rain that they were gettting ..

could this have been our Govt.. trying to get the 500,000 plus hippies to stop there party..

what I'm saying is the conspiracy theories were already there in 1969 , so yes it could well have been propaganda back then too in this article ... >SASQUATCH

also when planes these days make lines that become a checkered pattern in the sky of clouds, it looks exactly like it is ... a Field that is being planted with seeds .

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
I always get confused with the chemtrail contrail argument.

I think to say contrails dont exist is just stupid as its clear you can see them. They are produced by the ice crystals that are formed when a jet engine tears through the upper atmosphere.

But what I dont get about chemtrails is that there are so many different theories as to why they are doing this. Like to release poisons or toxin to harm us so we get sick and have to keep buying medicines. Or to alter the weather for what ever the hell reason they want like cause floods that destroys infer structure that then needs to be rebuilt at tax payers expense.

Which is it? or are they doing both? can it be proven?

After reading so many of these threads, I've decided to keep my true feelings to myself! This debate truely goes nowhere (aka contrails)...or it's going somewhere (aka chemtrails). The only truth is SOONER or LATER it "will all come out in the wash." Now that is definitive!

reply posted on 18-7-2012 @ 05:52 PM by tsurfer2000h
reply to
post by SpittinTruth
________________________________________





For such a debunker.....it looks like you got caught, with your pants down!


And how is it that I got caught with my pants down?

Well if you say so....
edit on 18-7-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)

It was all the rage at one time: www.cellsea.com...

To think the average person could make a scientific determination of atmospheric particulate is questionable in my opinion, just as those who would have us believe that absolutely no testing of dispersal agents would ever occur – whether they are in the form of spraying from planes or otherwise. We have recent known experiments with rockets dispersing material for ‘researching noctilucent clouds’. (Things that make you go hmmmm is this what the spirals were about?)

The Charged Aerosol Release Experiment (CARE) was conducted by the Naval Research Laboratory and the Department of Defense...

NASA Source

To track specific flights spraying would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack and unless a plane following said spraying plane would have equipment on board to capture the alleged particulate, video evidence is certainly no proof. Additionally, with the difficult nature of providing proof, it would seem purely speculation to ascribe purpose to alleged spraying.
Further, I’m not sure what sort of EPA or other laws are in effect with regards to jet exhaust, but as long as whatever is coming out is within limits, there is room there to play.

Condensation usually (always?) has a form of particulate in its nucleus, so when jet fuel exhaust contains formaldehyde, and these particles of formaldehyde make up the nucleus of a moisture particle, then would we not have by definition a ‘chemtrail’? It seems the context of the meaning of ‘chemtrail’ is way too broad and inclusive, sort of like saying, ‘all Muslims are terrorists’.

CONCLUSIONS:
The FA concentrations in LSCJ79 engine exhaust varies depending on the type of fuel, engine power settings, and ambient air conditions. A high FA concentration at ground level due to a change in the fuel type, low temperature, and humidity, causes frequent severe eye respiratory irritation.

Formaldehyde in Jet Fuel

Originally posted by WiseThinker
reply to post by Milkflavour

 

I agree, that Soldiers have free will, however, if you joined the Army, you did agree to them controlling you, until you opt out of the Army (im saying you cannot simply opt out of one mission).

And you clearly didn't read what you even quoted. As i stated, then if this is going on (spreading of chemtrails) then it stands to reason, that the whole process and been compartmentalized like other high priority military projects, to prevent information to get out, limit whistle blowers and to prevent the left hand from knowing what left hand is doing.

That way, the pilots spreading the Chemicals, have no clue what they are doing.

Read before you post, goodness this thread is a mess.

Namaste

I did read, which is why I said if they had asked me to spray "god knows what" then I would refuse.... They would at least have to tell them they were spraying SOMETHING and where (over civilians) and it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 together... Also, they would be present when the aircraft was being prepped and would be more than likely aware of what it was being loaded.... Also, they would be required to know if the cargo was hazardous in case something went wrong...

And no, I didn't agree to them controlling me at all, I could have refused to do anything at any time, prior to leaving. I knew plenty of guys who refused to do stuff, they were charged obviously, but they still did it. You don't sign away your free will or somehow have it removed when you sign up, you always still have a choice, you just have to be prepared to accept the consequences....

reply to post by Helevetsquatch


Oh, the government would have definitely sprayed something to make it rain back those days. Most older people were against drugs and hippylike people those days equating them to gypsies. Most Hippies were harmless and honest those days but were still a big threat to capitalism because they weren't big consumers. All in all I think the government would have tried to rain out Woodstock. They did a lot of weather manipulation in Vietnam.

Originally posted by WiseThinker
Now i argue neither for nor against the chem-trails, however do not dumb down chemtrail believers to rednecks with to much time, just like the mainstream labels us tin foil hats.

I agree, there are videos on youtube, that make the whole chem trail scenario seam implausible, and in some cases videos where they are blatantly claiming contrails to be "chemtrails", and those who claim every thing is a chemtrail. But lets be honest, i can find videos completely miss representing pretty much any theory on here, making is sound like utter BS.

However, i can tell you, that those who truly believe in chem trails and went done their research believe along these lines :

1. First of, only a few, unmarked and specially fitted airplanes spread the Chemicals
2. Contrails are normal, and can cause cloud cover
3. Will refer to instances, when the unmarked planes, did checker patterns back and forth (with multiple visible U turns, just back and fourth)
4. Incidents, where after checkered sky, local epidemics start (Only very few of these)

So they do NOT believe, that every single aircraft is part of a depopulation conspiracy, nor do they deny contrails, or the lasting effect of them. They are claiming a conspiracy, where the military or private companies, are flying with specially fitted passenger planes which have been fitted with chem tanks instead.

Deny Ignorance

Namaste

edit on 18/7/12 by WiseThinker because: (no reason given)

AGREED! Just because there was an effect by jets 40 years ago does not rule out that manipulation of the environment is not happenning! Maybe that's where the military got the idea from and/or science to actually do Geo engineering! Just because an effect of the likes is stated does not eliminate or debunk geo engineering!
Only by remaining vigilent of the skies and testing all theories can we hope to thwart off the force that is manipulating our lives! Cause I for one no longer feel that our Government, Military and the likes keeps the best interests of the majority in check! I believe only through our determinations, observations and with steady resolve
will we survive the next decade of class warfare that is so prevalent in the USA!

Originally posted by Paul Rubino

Originally posted by SpittinTruth:
Again, i say....it's on you...to make me a believer. IT's not on me to make you one. I don't care if you don't believe "chemtrails"/"geo-engineering"/weather manipulation/weather warfare, is real. It is what it is. YOU have to wake up, to those FACTS by RESEARCHING them.....for YOURSELF.

Allow me to translate:

SpittinTruth:
I can't provide evidence to support my chemtrail beliefs. You can't provide evidence to support my chemtrail beliefs. Therefore I'm right and you're wrong.

Let me give you a better translation.....YOUR MINDS ARE LOPSIDED...or shall i say.....1 sided. Nothing, anyone one of you contrail believers have posted...is 100% concrete evidence. There's more HOLES in your theory, than that of 9-11.

It's also funny how everyone wants to attack my posts; almost forcing me to believe you. Why? Why do i have to believe what you say? Why is what you say "right" and what i say "wrong". I say 1 thing, and 3 or 4 other people want to chime in, and say: "no, no, no"!!! Why? Are you trying to squash what i'm saying....because what i'm saying (and many others like me are saying) is FACT? Facts you refuse to research for yourself. You want me to spend time out of my day, to get links and quotes for you? I've already done my research! Why do i have to do yours also? Don't tell me, you're the type of person that only checks out the 1st page...when you do a 'search'?

You probably still believe in the "official story". lol Move on already. You're certainly not mature enough to talk Tesla; or technology. You got an i-pod and you still write on tablets of stone.

BTW: how do those cell phones transmit their signal.

I may be ignorant....but you're highly uneducated!

edit on 19-7-2012 by Paul Rubino because: Typos

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by chadderson
reply to post by Uncinus

 

So non chemical trails can create clouds. Ok.

But the issue here is that most chemtrail believers, especially those who promote the theory with their "documentaries" claim that non-chemical trails cannot, or that it's incredibly rare. This shows they are wrong. And this has been pointed out to them so many times that it's quite difficult to claim they are not lying.

Ask any hardcore chemtrailer - they will tell you "contrails quickly dissipate, chemtrails spread out to cover the sky". They are wrong, they have been lied to.

Really, I believe NONE of what I read and half of what I see. Cloud "seeding" has been around almost as long as the airplane. What a dumb goddamn thing to post, because a 1969 article said so, it must be true. Too funny.