It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Wow, LW, I'm really surprised to see this written from you. This is like saying that religion and god has done nothing, changed nothing. It just doesn't sound like you. Did this thread catch you in a down mood?
I'm tempted to believe the channelers of the Galactic Federation of Light...really would like to! Their message is far more uplifting than the "Christian" channelers, who only warn of doom, gloom, death, and other horrible consequences for "stepping out of line."
No man on this Earth can save anyone. Others can only point in the right direction.
btw... Why would my post/responce be possitive and uplifting when the OP has nothing to do with either of these traits. I'm not a "preacher" and I'm certainly not winning over any souls. If I am, then they probably wont go where they expect to. But I see and smell BS when it's in front of me... and this post was right there out in the open with all the other stinkers.
As far as your approach goes, you seek to be confrontational, not to have a discussion; but, to ridicule.
Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
Thank you, Lone Wolf, that contradicts the baptism rule then, doesn't it? So how, in your opinion as a Christian, would you go about saving a person on the internet, with no personal contact at all?
Perhaps I have the wrong approach from your standpoint, but I have had to defend my own position many times for people who came to try and save me. There have been many too. Some are kind, and when they discover you have a different faith, they wish you well and go away. Some want to argue you into submission. Some pray for you spontaneously. Some get very angry at you, and threaten you with harsh punishment if you don't do what they say. Some call you a Sinner, some call you Demon Possessed, some say you work for Satan.
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by autowrench
Dear autowrench,
I wasn't talking about anyone EXCEPT the self styled Christian Ministers who haunt this website. The ones with common rhetoric who label everything not in their book a Demon. The ones who parrot each other, and post long lines of Bible quotes for us to wade through. The ones who cannot defend their positions, but crow loudly that they hold the ultimate truth, or they talk to God/Jesus and God/Jesus tells them things. Not aimed at anyone else, so chillax.
Fair enough if we are fair to one another and don't over generalize. I do not group all atheists together and when I am grouped together with others who I disagree with, I will point it out. Part of the problem we face is that atheists who were taught bad doctrine and "christians" who were taught bad doctrine both frequently agree that the bad dogma is what the bible teaches and that presents a false view of the bible to others.
As far as your approach goes, you seek to be confrontational, not to have a discussion; but, to ridicule. You cannot complain about the "Christians" who do such things when you do the same and remain fair or balanced. Even your question about whether or not I have read the bible through is baiting, I have and many, many times and studied it and discuss it daily. What I find shocking today is the number of seminary students who have not read it all the way through which contributes to their passing on bad information to their congregations.
Whatever your experience is with "christians", is your experience; but, when you group everyone together rather than dealing with individuals you are as wrong as the "christians" you are complaining about. Perhaps you can help make things better by not imitating the wrong actions of others. We can set an example by ignoring the worst of both groups and attempting to have reasonable and constructive discussions with reasonable people with both sets of belief.
I do understand frustration with people who seek to "save" you. I ask you to go back and read the response I was given on this thread from someone who thinks they are a christian. My statements were that I cannot save anyone, that is between a person and God, I am to have an answer for the hope that lies within me and when asked I do.
Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by article
btw... Why would my post/responce be possitive and uplifting when the OP has nothing to do with either of these traits. I'm not a "preacher" and I'm certainly not winning over any souls. If I am, then they probably wont go where they expect to. But I see and smell BS when it's in front of me... and this post was right there out in the open with all the other stinkers.
My, my, pretty harsh there, aren't you? I did not pick a fight with you. I asked a simple question. Why turn it into an argument, or pissing contest?
I do have a valid point yet to be revealed. I just wanted to see what our Christian members thought about these people who come to ATS and do the things I talked about in the OP. If you have been here for awhile, and have visited the Religious threads, you know who I am talking about here. I could easily name them all, but I won't, that is not the purpose of this thread. So take it easy, I am not "calling out" anyone, or "flaming anyone's faith," I just want some opinions on a trend you may or may not have noticed.
Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by AQuestion
As far as your approach goes, you seek to be confrontational, not to have a discussion; but, to ridicule.
I am really sorry that you read me this way, AQuestion. I am confrontational, that is how I make people think. But Do not ridicule, rather, I offer to educate. Perhaps I have the wrong approach from your standpoint, but I have had to defend my own position many times for people who came to try and save me. There have been many too. Some are kind, and when they discover you have a different faith, they wish you well and go away. Some want to argue you into submission. Some pray for you spontaneously. Some get very angry at you, and threaten you with harsh punishment if you don't do what they say. Some call you a Sinner, some call you Demon Possessed, some say you work for Satan.
Don't forget, I live within the Bible Belt, and we have a lot of religious people here, and some hate the others.
I do not have a religious gauge here in ATS, I am sorry that sometimes I tend to group, I know I should not. Trouble is, when you meet someone who is a Christian these days, you do not know for sure how they will be.
Like I said, I have a point, I want to see a few more responses first.
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by autowrench
Dear autowrench,
Perhaps I have the wrong approach from your standpoint, but I have had to defend my own position many times for people who came to try and save me. There have been many too. Some are kind, and when they discover you have a different faith, they wish you well and go away. Some want to argue you into submission. Some pray for you spontaneously. Some get very angry at you, and threaten you with harsh punishment if you don't do what they say. Some call you a Sinner, some call you Demon Possessed, some say you work for Satan.
I do understand frustration with people who seek to "save" you. I ask you to go back and read the response I was given on this thread from someone who thinks they are a christian. My statements were that I cannot save anyone, that is between a person and God, I am to have an answer for the hope that lies within me and when asked I do. The OP asked a question of believers and I answered him, if he asked a question of believers than to answer him as a believer is fair and not pushing anything. It would also be fair of me to ask a question of non-believers in the spirituality forum and that is not pushing my beliefs and anyone who did not wish to have an honest discussion would not need to join the thread or even read it.
I am not impressed when people tell me what I believe rather than asking me and allowing me to explain for myself. We don't have to agree on religion and we don't have to agree on politics; but, these are issues we should be free to discuss in a reasonable manner. These are the issues that are the most important, what is the meaning of life and how should we organize ourselves as a society. If we allow ourselves to become bitter because some people are improper then we miss out on the opportunity to get deeper into issues that really mean something.
The New Testament tells us to spread the word, to go into towns and profess it and that if nobody responds positively, we are to leave the town and wipe the dust off our shoes. I cannot find anything that says to go and chase people down and demand that they accept Christ. It is simple, if you don't want to hear it then I won't try and convert you. I actually believe in free will and that God can interact with anyone if he so chooses. If you choose to read posts in the spirituality section then you will risk, of your own choice, being reached out to by believers.
Recently, I was on a thread that asked what people thought of inter-dimensional beings being our perceived aliens. My response was to say that I saw them as demonic and I left it at that as far as religion goes and proceeded to discuss what scientists had to say about the phenomenon. I was told by one poster that they didn't think that we were allowed to say demonic on that forum. If I personally truly believe that our perceived aliens are demonic and not alien, should I be able to say that (you can check my profile and go read the thread for yourself, it is a recent one)? I did not preach and stayed on topic having made just that one reference without expanding on that aspect of my answer.
Just for your amusement, the "christian" who responded to me on this thread told me I would go to hell for not saving others. I have more of an issue with people like him than I do with non-believers. In response to the OP, yeah, I have had a few non-believers U2U me and maybe I impacted them; but, who knows what is truly in the heart of men. I had one person explained that they didn't believe; but, went to church for business reasons. I told him not to go and not to care what others thought.
Not all; but, most non-believers I know in the U.S. became atheists because they were taught bad dogma by harsh people and they were not allowed to think for themselves. I myself left Catholicism at age 12 and spent a decade researching the bible and Christianity (along with other religions) and it drove my mother insane. My mother originally refused to go to my wedding because it was not in a Catholic church (I am a Protestant). I told her to do what she believed she should. Maybe if we all relax and get to know one another better we can actually get into issues and learn from each other. Peace and best wishes (see I didn't pray for you; but, I reserve the right to think and pray as I will in private - which is how we are told to pray).
I think we all should respect each other. I do not wish to join your church, or worship your God, or believe in your book. I do not wish these things pushed on me all the time. Don't believe in ETs or Aliens? Stay out of the thread we talk about them in. Want to profess your personal truth? Better come prepared is all I can say.