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An Honest Question For ATS Preachers

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posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 



Not only are those last two quotes condescending,rude, and hostile, but they imply that I don't want to read anything other than the bible , which is totally false.


Actually, it's an accurate portrayal of most of the Christians we've met in these kinds of threads. If it isn't in the Bible, it isn't true. Those kinds of people.

So if you're arguing with textbooks given to children all over the world to learn from, preferring the "authority" of your Bible, how is Wild wrong?


I'm not arguing against textbooks, simply saying that my belief comes from more of a reality base, than it does books.

I believe in Christianity not because of a book, but because of real situations and things that have happened in my life. I don't need to read a bunch of texts on religion, to try and "find" God. He is in my heart and knows my mind, and he knows my questions, as well as my struggles.

Because I refuse to read a plethora of books on spirituality, doesn't make my spirituality any less real, or valid for what it is, and how I got there.




posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 



Not only are those last two quotes condescending,rude, and hostile, but they imply that I don't want to read anything other than the bible , which is totally false.


Actually, it's an accurate portrayal of most of the Christians we've met in these kinds of threads. If it isn't in the Bible, it isn't true. Those kinds of people.


I wonder if I might ask you a question -- why would you guess that, if that type of person angers others, I am treated with as much, if not more disdain, because I am a theistic skeptic? Tell a non-believer that you believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, and they get pretty cranky. But tell them that you believe in evolution, the Big Bang, AND God, and some of them just go ballistic.

Not namin' names, you know
Just asking.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


This information is now available to the public as it never was before. It is all over the Internet. It is being discussed in forums, debated and lauded. There are videos about it, both pro and con. There are many images of the principle people involved (the Piso family and their relatives), as well as family tree or genealogical information to help researchers put this family into better perspective in terms of their relationship to one another. The later Roman emperors (beginning with Antoninus Pius) were all or mostly descended from Arrius Piso and his immediate family. These family lines, though hidden or disguised down through history continue on to this day. There is a line directly from Arrius Piso to Constantine. His line descended down through the Annii Verii and the Annii Anicii. The Byzantine emperors and their descendants also trace their origins back to Arrius Piso and his family. The European royals from various countries may also trace descent from Arrius Piso (this includes the British monarchy and the old kings of France). Also, the Popes were in on this and it appears that Popes up into the early half of the 1900's may a) be related to earlier Popes and b) eventually trace back to the first Pope or Bishop of Rome, Peter (aka Arrius Piso).
source

THE NT BOOKS:
MARK:
The gospel of Mark was written in a prototype form before it was later crafted into the form that we are familiar with. The earlier version was called ‘Ur Marcus’ and is also known/called ‘Q’ (for ‘Quelle’, which is German for the ‘source’).

Our latest findings regarding the early version of Mark show that this was written at about the time of Claudius Caesar, by the grandfather of Arrius Piso. That version was apparently only a bare sketch and most likely did not give a name to the ‘messiah’. That appears to have been done later by the person who actually played ‘Jesus’ in the Gospels - Arrius Piso

The version that we are familiar with was written about the year 73 CE by Arrius Calpurnius Piso. Arrius Piso was a Roman on his father’s side, but a descendant of King Herod on his mother’s side and therefore he knew well about the Jewish religion. He was also a close relative to the Flavians and even though secretly he could inherit and use the Flavian name by his mother’s descent from them, he gave a story about receiving it from the emperor Vespasian (in his other identity as Flavius Josephus).

MATTHEW:
Matthew too, was authored by Arrius Calpurnius Piso. This was written about the year 75 CE.

LUKE:
Was written 85-90 CE by Arrius C. Piso and Pliny the Younger.

JOHN:
The 4th Gospel, or the Gospel of John was written by Justus Calpurnius Piso, a son of Arrius C. Piso. This son was very much like this father in his hatred towards humanity. This Gospel was written circa 105 CE.

ACTS:
The Acts of the Apostles was written by Arrius Piso and his son Justus, with some help from Pliny the Younger 96-100 CE. By the way, there is a portion of Acts that is missing from most English translations/interpretations. That is the 29th Chapter, which has 10 verses.

ROMANS:
The epistle to the Romans was written by another son of Arrius Piso (Proculus Piso) and Claudia Phoebe about the year 100. Claudia Phoebe is known in history as the wife of the emperor Trajan (as Pompeia Plotina). She wrote the last few verses of this epistle, which many copies of the NT in English leave out because that portion was written by a woman. This is obvious, and she even gives her name as ‘Phoebe’. You can tell where the previous male author leaves off and the female author begins because the male author “signs off” with ‘Amen’. She wrote the last verses (25-27) of Romans, Chapter 16.

1st CORINTHIANS, GALATIONS, and EPHESIANS:
were all written between 100-103 CE by Pliny the Younger.

2nd CORINTHIANS and PHILIPPIANS:
were written by Justus C. Piso between 103-105 CE.

COLOSSIANS:
was written by Justus C. Piso and his son Julianus (Julianus was the father of the emperor Marcus Aurelius, but this is seen in history only by his use of another name ‘Verus’).
More at Website

What the Church Doesn't Want You to know

Former fundamentalist 'debunks' Bible

The mystery of 'The Jesus Papers'

This Guest Says His Roman Ancestors Wrote the New Testament and Created Jesus

A Short Synopsis of Piso History



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by borntowatch
 

Just more Christian based HATE and ANIMOSITY for anyone not in the CULT of Jesus. I started this thread to ask a question, and have gotten nothing but HATE for you Christians. How can you hate so much? I thought Christianity was a loving religion. And you say I hate? Look in the mirror, friend.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by Ellie Sagan
 


I see your posts and have read some of your threads and I see why they may hate you. You threaten them. You shake their beliefs.

Shake their Faith, yes, but Threaten them? No way. What would I threaten them with, other than their own versions of the Afterlife?

The reason I left my church and eventually the religion, was because I do ask a lot of questions myself and a lot of it just didn't sit right with me.

That is exactly the reason I left, many questions and no answers forthcoming. I was told to read the Bible, and I did. That gave me hundreds of questions, some of which I have asked in here. Still to this day not one Christian can answer me without a lot of hatred and loathing for the questioner. I know what it is, they are scared to death. I can read it in the words they type at me. Fear is the main driving force behind Christianity, and now it it really showing. What are you afraid of, Christian? Why can you not answer my questions?



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by autowrench
 


That's kinda a silly thing to say. Hasn't God called the end of every single life to ever live? I mean how does a person die without it being allowed by God?

I pointed out that the God of the OT kills, or orders the killing of innocents. If that is the way of this God, then why give him worship and devotion? I have a great deal more evil things this God did too.
Strange how he changed from the OT to the NT. Kinda makes everyone think it was made up.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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This thread, as I have stated several times, was designed to ask the Fundamentalist Evangelists of ATS if, in fact they had been able to convert anyone. A few of you actually answered, and there are a few Christians in ATS that knows what being a true Christian is all about. Sadly, some of you are so full of hate I hardly see how you sleep at night. So I will not abandon this thread, and will not respond to any replies. I humbly ask the Staff to close it.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 





No, God is divine. We are created in His image and likeness


You know, if we were truly created in his image and likeness, surely we would be able to do exactly the same things as him, yes?

We're divided, and divided, we lack power. We must unite as a species to claim our divinity.


If I build a model of an F-16 it should be able to fly at mach 2? An image or likeness of something is just that.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by autowrench
 


Your history is atrocious. The ancient moon god of Babylon was called "Sin". The Biblical person "Senechareb" was named after this deity. "Halil" is "crescent moon" in Arabic and "Heylel" is crescent moon in Hebrew, both are Semitic languages.


Allah is lah is yah is jah. They are the moon god.

lah, yah, jah is the moon god.


As I said, your history is atrocious and your understanding of Semitic languages even more so.


I'll take sources over your opinion any day. Especially since three god worshipers have been know to rewrite history.


You sourced Wikipedia. You can look at Wikipedia as the same source for the history of the letter "J" if you so desire.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


I didn't mean threaten them in that way, I just meant threaten their way of thinking, or their way of life I guess. They are so caught up in the way they believe in the bible and their god that they don't know what would be left if they stopped believing the way they do. I was there and I was faced with the very same feelings and fears. I am glad I overcame that.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by autowrench
 


That's kinda a silly thing to say. Hasn't God called the end of every single life to ever live? I mean how does a person die without it being allowed by God?

I pointed out that the God of the OT kills, or orders the killing of innocents. If that is the way of this God, then why give him worship and devotion? I have a great deal more evil things this God did too.
Strange how he changed from the OT to the NT. Kinda makes everyone think it was made up.


None of us are "innocent". False dichotomy.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 05:00 PM
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I know autowrench asked for this thread to be closed, but I have one more thing to say for now at least.

He is right though. There were very few answers to his question. I scanned back at posts that the christians who have been arguing with various other posters have said, including the OP, and they haven't provided a clear cut answer to the OP. They have only argued and debated.
edit on 25-7-2012 by Ellie Sagan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
This thread, as I have stated several times, was designed to ask the Fundamentalist Evangelists of ATS if, in fact they had been able to convert anyone. A few of you actually answered, and there are a few Christians in ATS that knows what being a true Christian is all about. Sadly, some of you are so full of hate I hardly see how you sleep at night. So I will not abandon this thread, and will not respond to any replies. I humbly ask the Staff to close it.


Disagreeing with your opinions and premises is not "hate". And no one has displayed hate towards you personally. You need to learn how to differentiate someone attacking what you believe/say from attacking you as a person. People disagree with me constantly, yet there is only one person here at ATS who attacks me as a person.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


A baby is innocent in the eyes of anyone who doesn't believe the Christian notion of being born with a sin nature. If that is what you believe then why do so many christians believe that it is wrong to kill a baby in the womb?



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by Ellie Sagan
I know autowrench asked for this thread to be closed, but I have one more thing to say for now at least.

He is right though. There were very few answers to his question. I scanned back at posts that the christians who have been arguing with various other posters have said, including the OP, and they haven't provided a clear cut answer to the OP.


Its been pointed out that there are only a handful of preachers on ATS. So hard for them to reply if they aren't online. One preacher did respond a lot earlier. Another preacher I have not seen on in a while. Most Christian posters here are Apologists not Evangelists. He made the scope of the OP question pretty narrow to begin with.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by Ellie Sagan
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


A baby is innocent in the eyes of anyone who doesn't believe the Christian notion of being born with a sin nature. If that is what you believe then why do so many christians believe that it is wrong to kill a baby in the womb?


I never included babies. Christians believe babies have no capacity to understand right from wrong and are not "sinners" until they can mentally understand that concept. Babies and children go to heaven when they die.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


In your other post you said none of us are innocent when referring to the statement that your god kills innocents. I said babies are innocent. I'm sure in the one example I gave earlier about him killing the firstborn children of Egypt, a lot of them were actually still infants or young children. Therefore, your god killed innocents. Why is that difficult for you to understand?



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by Ellie Sagan
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


In your other post you said none of us are innocent when referring to the statement that your god kills innocents. I said babies are innocent. I'm sure in the one example I gave earlier about him killing the firstborn children of Egypt, a lot of them were actually still infants or young children. Therefore, your god killed innocents. Why is that difficult for you to understand?


That was a judgment against Pharaoh for ordering the killing of all the firstborn children of the Hebrews. And exponentially more merciful than what the Egyptians did. Those babies died in their sleep, the Hebrew babies were drown in the Nile and some had their heads bashed on rocks. Shall God not avenge their deaths? And secondly, all the plagues of Egypt attacked a different "god" the Egyptians worshipped with the last plague attacking Pharaoh himself who wanted to be worshipped as a god. YHVH said basically. "So you're a god? You can't even keep your own sons alive."

When the comment was made about "none of us are innocent" I was not talking about babies. Their death were a judgment against Pharaoh and the Egyptians, not the babies themselves. They passed in their sleep and awoke in heaven. That's hardly a judgment, everytime I lay my head down to sleep I wish I could do the same.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Alright, this is way off topic, but I already knew what you just wrote. I don't see it as a good god who would kill innocents, for vengeance or otherwise. They were still innocent. Also, do you see that it is ridiculous that your god did that to prove that pharoah wasn't a god and couldn't protect his own? I guess god couldn't (and still can't) protect his own. The Israelites weren't protected and neither are the many believers who are killed and hurt everyday still. So, I know, I know, he could but that just isn't always in his plan.

edit: Since this is so off topic, if you wish to say more on the topic let's do it in U2U's. Thanks.
edit on 25-7-2012 by Ellie Sagan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by Ellie Sagan
 


Did you miss the first part of my post? It was a judgment for killing all the firstborn of the Hebrews? Why does no one ever care that the Hebrew babies were all thrown in the Nile? Is it because they were Hebrew babies? Every time this comes up people don't care the Hebrew babies were murdered first.



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