It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

An Honest Question For ATS Preachers

page: 21
10
<< 18  19  20    22  23  24 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:18 AM
link   
reply to post by Ellie Sagan
 


No one can show you God. No one has seen God.
God is not percievable because it is God who percieves.




posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:26 AM
link   
reply to post by Ellie Sagan
 





I see your posts and have read some of your threads and I see why they may hate you. You threaten them. You shake their beliefs. They may not realize that's what it is, but I've been there and that is what I used to feel. I was Christian and even though I welcomed debate with people, I realized that a lot of times I had no good response for people's questions about me and my religion. The reason I left my church and eventually the religion, was because I do ask a lot of questions myself and a lot of it just didn't sit right with me. My heart was telling me something was wrong with a lot of it, but I was in denial I guess.


puuullleeeese


Our beliefs aren't shaken by autowrench , but they may be strengthened through rational debate.

My heart tells me autowrench wants to stir up "heated" debate, and thrives on trying to pit Christians against each other.

Do I hate him ...? ..nope.. don't even dislike the dude. I hope he finds lasting peace and happiness through grace, which is what I wish for everyone.

I see no hate towards auto wrench in these threads.Just people who stand up for their beliefs , and call him out on the hatred he seems to have towards Christians and Christianity. He may have a legit reason for that stemming from childhood , so I will not judge him.


edit on 25-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:28 AM
link   
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


I wasn't asking for proof of God. Go read again.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by Ellie Sagan
 





I see your posts and have read some of your threads and I see why they may hate you. You threaten them. You shake their beliefs. They may not realize that's what it is, but I've been there and that is what I used to feel. I was Christian and even though I welcomed debate with people, I realized that a lot of times I had no good response for people's questions about me and my religion. The reason I left my church and eventually the religion, was because I do ask a lot of questions myself and a lot of it just didn't sit right with me. My heart was telling me something was wrong with a lot of it, but I was in denial I guess.


puuullleeeese


Our beliefs aren't shaken by autowrench , but they may be strengthened through rational debate.



edit on 25-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)


Your first line is very condescending.

As far as your beliefs being shaken by autowrench, I guess that wasn't totally accurate on my part. What I should have said is that autowrench might bring up points that might add to any underlying concerns you might have about some issues in the faith. Come on you must have some, if you allowed yourself to examine and think about it.. One big one for me is why did God have all the firstborn Egyptian children killed? I see that as wrong. There was no good reason for it. Wow. When I asked my pastor about it, he conceded that it seems wrong, but said God is the creator and who knows for what purpose he created them. He has a purpose and it all works for good to Him. He used Romans 9:21 to back it up. I'm sorry, but that's still wrong. Killing innocents.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:48 AM
link   
reply to post by Ellie Sagan
 




Your first line is very condescending.


and your line wasn't?

read this again (below)and see if you do not see condescending overtones to it?




I see your posts and have read some of your threads and I see why they may hate you. You threaten them. You shake their beliefs.





One big one for me is why did God have all the firstborn Egyptian children killed? I see that as wrong. There was no good reason for it.


This is an example of twisting the truth.

God did not have them killed, those deaths were ordered by someone afraid of the new king.

The question is why God has allowed many horrendous things to happen to innocents, and that is a question I do not have an answer for, except that for his own reasons God chooses not to interfere with many of mans choices.



edit on 25-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:53 AM
link   
reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


I am twisting nothing.

Exodus 12:29

New International Version (NIV)

29 At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.

I was not being condescending, I was offering my opinion. Your line was simply acting like I'm an idiot and you can't believe that I'd even think such a thing.
edit on 25-7-2012 by Ellie Sagan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 08:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by Ellie Sagan
reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


I am twisting nothing.

Exodus 12:29

New International Version (NIV)

29 At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.

I was not being condescending, I was offering my opinion. Your line was simply acting like I'm an idiot and you can't believe that I'd even think such a thing.
edit on 25-7-2012 by Ellie Sagan because: (no reason given)


thank you for clarifying what part of the bible you were referring to, and like another member said, maybe there was just reason for it.

Because your thinking is condescending as well as incorrect, I replied to it with a chuckle.

That was my opinion, on your opinion.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 09:18 AM
link   
reply to post by borntowatch
 


Dont patronise me sweety


Likewise!. My post was perfectly polite. Wow, y'all are very pissy this week! So much for polite discourse and intelligent discussion.

I don't care what your opinion is of me, you have just destroyed any inclination I had of approaching you as a reasonable person.

Yikes. Where's the hatred coming from again? The hypocrisy and judgment, "sweetie"?



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 09:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by Ellie Sagan
I see no proof on that page that the Piso theory is inaccurate.


Of course not, because your blind devotion to Autowrench tells you that it can't be inaccurate. The author of that page is "condescending" because the "Roman Piso Theory" is ludicrous, and it boggles the mind that anyone with any degree of intelligence would think it had any value, whatsoever.

A vast conspiracy, unleashed on an unwitting world by a secret Roman family who were somehow intimately familiar with the people, culture and faith of a minor backwater part of the empire, who recognized that Judaism (a faith that intentionally excludes all non-Israelites) was going to take over the empire, and who wrote a series of books peppered with inside jokes and numerology? An hitherto unknown family who, through the clever use of aliases, are portrayed as being integral to the historical period?

For this outlandish claim, and all the rest (did you see the bit "(the book of) Acts, we are told, was written to advertise locations of Roman brothels",) what evidence does Reuchlin provide? NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. The Piso theory begins, and ends, in the mind of Reuchlin, the guy from Kent Washington, and is supported by nothing but conjecture and fantasy, which makes it, inherently, a work of fiction.

I don't expect that you will understand that for the aforementioned blindness to truth, but there it is.

And to respond to your other post, no, I don't hate Autowrench, nor are my beliefs "shaken", in any way, by any of his claims. I have been dealing with anti-Christians for a long time, and there are few with shallower arguments than what you and he propose to be true.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 09:31 AM
link   
reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


I see no hate towards auto wrench in these threads.Just people who stand up for their beliefs , and call him out on the hatred he seems to have towards Christians and Christianity. He may have a legit reason for that stemming from childhood , so I will not judge him.

That is good, one should not judge another, in any case. Contrary to what seems to be popular belief in here among Christians, I do not hate you, what I rail against is the Establishment that controls you, and the Hidden Hands behind that Establishment. I rail against the lies you have been spoon-fed for all these years by the Church, which is fully responsible for millions of innocent deaths seemingly swept under the rug, and forgotten. All Christians worship Jesus the man as God, but know not thing one about the man, his history, or lineage. They just give over mind, body and soul to this "Jesus," in the hope of a Heavenly Abode in the Afterlife, as promised by the preacher. They believe in a book that is so altered and corrupted it doesn't even make sense when compared to other Ancient History Codex and Papyrus. There is not a shred of original Bible left, all are copies of copies, the Church Scribes were quite a crew when it came to turning out religious texts. But when someone comes to question these beliefs, they are labelled as a hater.

Could it just be that some of us do not wish to join the Cult of Jesus, and wish you were not in it yourself? Are you so weak in your faith and belief that you cannot defend what you believe in to little old me? All I ask is for you to get off your knees and prepare yourself for a World shaking Event that will thrust all of us into the Spirit World in an instant. How many Christians know what to do, and how to act there? Some of you don't even believe in Ghosts, what is to be done when you are one yourself?

I do not hate anyone, I am a Seeker, and I ask many questions. And I am fully aware that Christians are intolerant of free thinkers, any other religion, and any other God/Goddess. You accuse me of hatred,
I think some Christians need a refresher course in what loving people means. You don't have to approve of what everybody does, but you are commanded to love them inspite of it. Hatred, intolerance, bigotry, name calling, and violence are not things a Christian should be doing.

“Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Matthew 7:1) and “Judge not, and ye shall not be judged, condemn not and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven” (Luke 6:37). I have yet to meet a Christian who has not judged me, and condemned me to Hell being a Wiccan. Not one. And the funny thing is, not one of them even knew the origin of Hell in the first place, or the first thing about Wicca. Tell me, how does one pronounce sentence on another and send them to a place that doesn't exist?



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 09:35 AM
link   
reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


I am not saying books are bad, or that I hate them. ? ..just that I don't like them forced unto me, and told they are absolute truth, which many may feel about any religious book.

sigh.
But that's what the churches do with the Bible. I don't like it either.

Your choice of words is interesting, I know the technique used by some people, who subtly attack and then when discovered and challenged, say "Who, me? When? What? No, I didn't!"

No hostility coming from me, I'm just adamant that people need to open their eyes. No one is forcing anyone to read anything, or saying it is the absolute truth, except those who claim "Bible Only" ... i.e. the Church leaders and their devout followers....and I'm not the one threatening people with eternal condemnation for not buying it.

You new group are quite touchy, and sly. It's like we questioners are getting too uppity, showing some solidarity, and our numbers are rising in terms of open posting, so the Christian salesmen, getting nowhere, sent in "the closers" to hammer the sale!! Yeah, I used to be privy to the inside strategies of sales teams. No sale here, I know the ropes.

Sorry.

Carry on, then, and just know that you and everyone else who has "assessed" and "judged"me are wrong. Am I sensitive to being ridiculed? Yes. It bothers me. Does it change what I know in my heart to be the Truth?

Not one iota.

But thanks for reminding me to put on my emotional armor before going in to the arena. Fare well on your journey.
I'll look forward to meeting you when we all get there.

edit on 25-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 09:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by autowrench
I have yet to meet a Christian who has not judged me, and condemned me to Hell being a Wiccan. Not one.


Well, I have not condemned you to Hell for any reason, so that's a line that you can't use any more



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 09:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 





When you try to "educate" with your books, you call it helping and enlightening, but when a Christian tries to enlighten about what they believe is truth, its called "cramming down somebody's throat".


Thats hypocrisy bro. Classic open and shut case. Also one of the things Messiah hates most.

Ouch.
Wong again, lonewolf. I'm no hypocrite. I openly admit I DON'T KNOW, and I DON'T BELIEVE in any of the archaic views of men. If I were to claim I'm a devout Christian and THEN turn around and judge and condemn people, then I'd be hypocrite. I don't do that.

I don't believe in hell or condemnation, no matter how loudly or stubbornly someone threatens me with it.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 09:48 AM
link   
reply to post by autowrench
 





I rail against the lies you have been spoon-fed for all these years by the Church, which is fully responsible for millions of innocent deaths seemingly swept under the rug, and forgotten.


What about all the lives it has saved, through the preaching of loving your neighbor.how many starving people have been fed because of the message of the bible, and how many wars have been thwarted due to prayer, and christian belief?

How many miracles, that have saved lives through faith, and the grace of God?

Yes, many have died , and maybe some were supposed to die, but why do you never talk about all the GOOD things that have been done through belief in the bible, and there are plenty of good works that would have never come to be, had it not been that literally millions of believers did good works through their faith.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 09:50 AM
link   
reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


how many wars have been thwarted due to prayer, and christian belief?

None that I'm aware of. Please share.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 09:54 AM
link   
reply to post by wildtimes
 





Ouch. Wong again, lonewolf. I'm no hypocrite. I openly admit I DON'T KNOW, and I DON'T BELIEVE in any of the archaic views of men. If I were to claim I'm a devout Christian and THEN turn around and judge and condemn people, then I'd be hypocrite. I don't do that.


I openly admit I don't have all the answers as well, but I do believe that Jesus was not an ordinary human, or just a great teacher, but something much more important to the destiny of the human race.

Because we are Christians , does not mean you can't expect us to discern and speak honestly about what we see and read, without accusations that we are judging.

Auto wrench and you both hold to beliefs that no one is to be judged, yet you both do it often...so it can be said.. we ALL fall short of perfection in living up to the ideals we espouse to.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 09:55 AM
link   
reply to post by Ellie Sagan
 


I'm sorry, but that's still wrong. Killing innocents.

Hello, Ellie. Know this, the God of the Bible has killed way more innocents that the Egyptian first born.

How many has God killed? (Complete list and estimated total)

And that doesn't count the number of people killed in the Name of Jesus over the years, even to today....
More people been killed in the name of Jesus Christ than any other in the history of the world.

African Children Denounced As "Witches" By Christian Pastors

Killing In The Name Of Jesus

What About Atrocities That Have Been Done in the Name of Religion?



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 10:33 AM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


That's odd, in real life I have a friend named Gary Cockrill. I'll listen to it. I have a podcast for you to hear too. I heard this while driving up north two days ago and it sorta goes along with a discussion we had several days ago about the doctrine of repentance and at the tail end goes into Legalism VS Holiness.





edit on 25-7-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 10:40 AM
link   
reply to post by autowrench
 


That's kinda a silly thing to say. Hasn't God called the end of every single life to ever live? I mean how does a person die without it being allowed by God?



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 10:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Huh? Jesus is the english version of the greek Iesuo which is Yeshua. There's no J in hebrew, J was invented 500 years ago.


The written J was invented 500 years ago. The J sound did exist back then. It was spelt Yehshuas. The Y had a J sound. The two H were silent. The A was silent. Yehshuas was spoken as Jesus.


There is no phonetic"J" sound in Hebrew, never has there been, nor to this day.




top topics



 
10
<< 18  19  20    22  23  24 >>

log in

join