Bush Kerry debate tonight! Bush at advantage? Who will win?

Congratulations! You just repeated exactly what our president wants you to say! You are now a bona-fide drone who cannot think for herself.

Actually you are wrong. After 9/11 and before Kerry started his campaign I REALLY liked him. I would watch him in interviews and I was in agreement with almost all of what he said. Then he started campaigning and I couldn't keep up with his constant changes in positions. Before everyone else started in on the flip flop charges I was scratching my head wondering 'now didn't he just contradict what he said last week?' My dislike for Kerry has NOTHING to do with Bush and everything to do with what I saw, with my own eyes, over the course of a few years.

Our society has become one that runs away from anything that is not an instant victory or takes sacrifice. Everyone is into instant gratification. If things dont go their way immediately they want to back away from it. It's bad enough that society at large runs around acting like a bunch of spoiled brats with a sense of entitlement and a lack of willingness to make sacrifices. I sure as heck dont want a President that acts like that.

I'll get back to you in regard to your links. I just wanted to set the record straight on Kerry ... I REALLY liked him until he started contradicting himself and until I discovered his atrocious record in the Senate. I did my own research regarding his voting record at www.vote-smart.org and I would suggest you look into it as well.

Jemison

Originally posted by Jemison
I think we are all eager to see tonights debate. With the format being similar to what we saw between Cheney and Edwards I believe Bush will have the upper hand. Bush is much better with low key, relaxed atmospheres. Kerry seems better when he is in a more formalized debate setting.

Does anyone agree that Bush has the advantage because of the setting?


Jemison

Hi, Jemison:

In my opinion, Bush won the first one on "substance." Yes, I do believe that President Bush will win this one.

Tiza

I still cannot see Bush winning this one. Everything he says is the same, all he has on Kerry is oh he's a flip flopper. He's no better, for then against the 9/11 commision, the ban on assault rifles, UN Voting for iraq etc... Kerry will win again, because as much as they both do flip flop, 4 more years with bush is scary to me, and Kerry seems to have way more of a talent to debates and speaking in general.

Originally posted by Jemison
Actually you are wrong. After 9/11 and before Kerry started his campaign I REALLY liked him. I would watch him in interviews and I was in agreement with almost all of what he said. Then he started campaigning and I couldn't keep up with his constant changes in positions.

I don't mean to be accusatory, but I simply don't believe this. It sounds suspiscious because I can't believe that you've failed to notice all of Bush's flip-flops...

www.americanprogressaction.org...

So, if your reason for not voting for Kerry is flip-flops, then I strongly suggest you take a good look at what Bush has been up to for the last four years.

Again, it is hard for me to believe that you are telling the truth. I'm certainly not going to say that Kerry's record is sterling, but it's a hell of a lot better than the record of a liar. Why can't you see that? I suspect you are rather young and live in Orange County somewhere. There is very little perspective in that...

No, my reason is not just flip-flops. Read what I am saying: at one point I AGREED with what Kerry was saying. I NO LONGER agree with what Kerry is saying. NOT because I changed MY mind, but because HE did.

There is nothing I can do if you choose not to believe me. I have no reason to lie to you. I can get a couple of signed affidavits from some of my friends who used to give me a very hard time about the fact that I LIKED Kerry. My husband can also come on here and tell you that when Kerry started campaigning I would listen to what Kerry was saying and then ask him "hey, that isn't what he said a few months ago ... what changed his mind?"

I've admitted in other threads that before 9/11 I was NOT into following politics or keeping up with world events. After 9/11 I became a news junkie. That is also when I discovered that, surprise of all surprises, I actually was in agreement with a Democrat!!! If I can openly admit that I used to have my politics dumbed down for me by my Father and that only after 9/11 did I realize the importance of making my own decisions based on what I saw with my own eyes and ears, why wouldn't I also freely admit that I rely on the Republican spin to spoon feed me info?

I am many things, but a liar is not one of them.

Jemison

Does nobody pay attention to Bush's flipflops? Let's get Osama! No, Saddam! WMDs! No, I mean WMD programs! No, I mean regime change! No, I mean Osama!

?

Personally I couldn't see Bush winning a debate against a cheese sandwich.

It seemed to me like his handlers gave him about 30 minutes of material for the last 90 minute debate and wow did it show.

I hope there's splitscreen tonight!


And give the poor guy more water, he drank from his empty glass like 5 times last time.





[edit on 8-10-2004 by Jakomo]

Originally posted by Durden
I think most people would agree that the first debate was Bush's strong card. He played it and lost. I seriously doubt he'll stand a chance in this one. It'll be interesting to see though..

Just think about it this way. He has only up to go from his last display of astounding and intimitating competence.

Georgy want some water?

Originally posted by Jemison
I am many things, but a liar is not one of them.

Ok. Just prove it by telling me which issues you used to agree with Kerry on, then tell me how he's "changed his mind since then." I don't want you to think I'm calling you a liar, but I suspect you've been brainwashed by all your friends and your husband. Just give me a couple examples, and I'll get off your back.

Why are you people even calling this a "debate"? It's a lying contest and whoever dupes the most of you "wins" in your mind?
I, personally, am not voting for either one of these idiots but if I were forced to choose one I would choose Bush. Why? Because he has pretty much put U.S. interests first in his foriegn policy decisions and does not bow to the U.N. as Kerry does and WILL DO to an extent that I find un- acceptable.

Ultra liberals need not cry foul and try to tell me how wrong I am as I'll be surrounded by your ilk tonight with my wife and her friends during the press conference....err..."debate".

I just can't imagine the pressure Bush must be facing. Pundits, even Fox's O'Reilly said that if Bush loses this debate, he'll lose the election.

Will that pressure help, or hurt him? Will he crack, takes some meds? Or will he come out fighting for his life? Should be interesting, I'm just glad it's not on Pay Per View!

Badnarik would Kick there collective Butts if they would allow a 3rd party in they are affraid.

Ok. Just prove it by telling me which issues you used to agree with Kerry on, then tell me how he's "changed his mind since then."

First of all, as much as I liked Kerry I was never Pro-Kerry, anti-Bush. I viewed Kerry as someone with potential who I would keep my eye on just in case he ever decided to run. I had no idea when I first started paying attention to him that he would be running for Pres in '04.

His entire stand on Iraq is what upset me, so obviously you won't believe me there. Originally he was for going into Iraq. No question, Saddam MUST be removed. He said that Saddam WAS a threat and had been a threat for many years. Kerry did not base this just on 9/11, he based it on the previous 10 year history that we had with Saddam. Then, after awhile I think it was shortly BEFORE we went into Iraq he said something about he wished we had more support. I could be wrong about this, this could have been after we were already in there.

The HUGE red flag for me was when he said that because of HIS experience in Vietnam he would refrain from being critical of Bush while we had troops in Iraq. I really admired Kerry for saying that. I thought it was a classy, honorable and respectful thing to do. I thought it was awesome that he would refrain from doing or saying anything that would make the troops question why they were putting their lives on the line. And because he mentioned HIS experience in Nam I took him for his word and believed that he would honor it. I don't think he kept his mouth shut very long before he started blasting Bush and the first time I heard him do it was when he lost credibility with me.

It just all went downhill from there. Every time I heard him speak he was changing his mind and opinion of Iraq based on NEW intel, based on CURRENT things going on. He just kept changing his opinon based on hindsight but never took responsibility for his own words saying that Saddam was a threat and had been a threat before 9/11. That Saddam had already used WMD's against his own people and we could not take the risk of him doing it again.

The only other thing that I can think of that people might not know much about in regard to Kerry was that at one point shortly after 9/11 caused the markets to tank, there was talk of cutting taxes and also of getting rid of taxes on dividends. At the time I was considering selling stock but was concerned about the tax implications. If I remember correctly, Kerry was onboard with Bush in trying to eliminate the dividend tax as well as the death tax and a few other things. He has voted against all of the tax cuts. Now he says that he will keep the cuts in place for those that make under 200K but he has said nothing about the dividend taxes or the death tax. Those that make less than 200K but invest in the market, or who have had long term investments and receive dividend checks more than likley will get screwed by Kerry. I am adamently opposed to taxes on dividends as well as the death tax, so if Kerry is for those things it is an issue to me.

So, those are some of the issues that turned me away from Kerry. It's nothing that is going to prove to you that I liked Kerry before and that he is the one that changed not me, but oh well. I'm sure if I did a google search and looked up his various speeches along the way it would refresh my memory of the specifics but it's not worth my time and it wouldn't help prove diddly to you.

Jemison

I just heard a little blurb that I find hard to believe, but may be something to it.

Most of the people touting Bush's comfort in these "Town Hall" settings are Kerry people. Why?

Well, the obvious answer is to lower expectations on Kerry and build false hope for Bush.

The factoid? In the past year Bush has done 20 something of these. I want to say he said 27, but I'm not sure. While Kerry has quietly done 73.

My only prediction for this one is LOTS of Bush zingers. Self depricating Reagen efforts to salvage performance one. But it'll be a looong night if that's all he brings.

This audience isn't supposed to be like his vetted supporter types. They might not find him as cute as he's been led to believe. Timing issues will play here. Bush does better with applause and laughter breathers. If the audience is loose, it favors Bush. If they're serious... it could look as bad for him as Debate 1.

And if Bush goes too jovial misreading a serious audience... it could be worse for him than Debate 1.

Critical debate tonight.

Tie no tie?

Blue shirt battle?

Who takes off jacket?

Rolls up sleeves?

Who's more confident right now?

I am really looking forward to tonight. Interesting info Rant, what you said makes a lot of sense.

Let the games begin.

Jemison

Originally posted by RANT
Tie no tie?

Blue shirt battle?

Who takes off jacket?

Rolls up sleeves?

Who's more confident right now?

Bush... George Bush... How's that for confidence?



Who cares, all that matters are the post debate festivities.

Tie no tie?

Blue shirt battle?

Who takes off jacket?

Rolls up sleeves?

Who's more confident right now?

lol look at the expression on his face.. Thats funny stuff

"Oh yeah... He's mine"

and LOL at the bush pic.. That's classic


[edit on 8-10-2004 by Thatoneguy]

A little off topic.... Condi? I'd do her.

MM, I think the title of that poster is very apt. Freudian slip?

OMG! ROFL. You all are hilarious!!!

Jemison