The Yin-Yang Principle (Duality) - Service to Self versus Service to Others... (Self and Ego is ok)

reply to post by Bluesma


The group is about giving and sharing (projection). Individuality is about taking, it is the desire which motivates you to take (go after goals).

I don't think giving / sharing (projection) has anything to do with self, but taking (receptive) sure does...

I guess we don't agree then! LOL!

The self projects out and "individuates", or separates, from the All.

Each time you write or speak, you are projecting your self- your individual personality and perception.

The collective is the vehicles for that-
Your body and it's senses,
The language,
The objective reality we all share, inside of which many individuals (selves) can interact.

You go after your goals- you project yourself forward! They are not brought to you.

Sometimes you come up against the walls,
Obstacles, Opposition, Others, ( O ! !)
so you call that "bad" because it is in the way.

But!
In hitting these walls

you become even MORE self conscious

through the effect of contrast.
(friction, baby, friction.....)

Nice thread :-)

Be the wave as it crashes from one to the other.

There is an gap between thoughts that is seen if you look long enough, an stillness between in breaths an out breaths, an crashing of the wave, the tipping point when it changes from one to the other, the space, the gap the "nothing" in between that point/transition is the secret.

Dont be yin or yang,

Light or Dark....

Be the Grey :-)

The women like it to if your an man

Love

Elf

Originally posted by Bluesma

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Bluesma

 

One question: Why do you see that Yang as The Self? If Yang is light and represents giving/ sharing, wouldn't it make more sense that Yang represents the Collective?

I think it is because she is a woman, and by nature feminine. It would be her tendancy to side with her nature.

Although I think she meant to type Ying, despite the Freudian slip. In the end, she agrees with the OP.

In conversations which speak out against "egoism" and masculinity, I defend the other side!
They have equal value.

But Ying? I have never seen such a word!! I have heard of Yin and Yang, but there was no slip, Freudian or not.
What is Ying? is that a way of refering to the mix of Yang and Yin?

edit on 17-7-2012 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)

ha. No. It was a mistake on my part. Although I think Ying sounds better.

Taiji symbol as a whole represents the collective.
Yin and yang are considered to be opposites.
The self does not oppose the whole, it is a part of it.

reply to post by arpgme

This is why most cultures considered The Sun to be masculine and The Moon to be feminine.

I must disagree with this point, although I agree entirely with the substance of your original post. The idea of the masculine being solar, and the feminine being lunar is not as old of a motiff as many people think. In actuality, the Greeks were the first group to actually enforce this dichotomy, with deities like Helios and Apollo representing the sun, while figures like Hecate and Selene embodied the moon. In reality, most ancient cultures (where archetypal symbolism arose) saw the moon and the sun as masculine principles, while the feminine belonged to the Earth itself. Her creative potential being so magnificent it required constant support from the masculine (sun and moon) to appease it.

For example, Egypt had a host of solar deities: Horus (in all 6 of his forms); Khepra-Re-Atum; and Amun-Re to name a few. Egypt also had a host of lunar deities: Aa the primal moon god; Thoth the Ibis-headed moon god; Khonsu the eternal youth who represented the moon's restorative and psychic potential. There are no feminine moon deities in Egypt. In fact, deities like Bast and Sekhmet are actually solar. It is the sky, as Nut or Hathor who embody the feminine in Egypt.

In Babylon the moon was the office of the god Nanna, born from the airy storm-lord Enlil. Nanna was going to be a powerful king, as he ruled over the law, and gave judgments and decided criminal punishment. Nanna, as the moon, fathered the sun, the god Utu. Utu was the psychopomp, traveling between the divine world of the Annunaki (Heaven), and the fertile world of the Igigi (Earth). The Earth itself was said to be Ninhursag, the goddess of birth, fertility, creation, and fecundity.

Continuing East into the Ugarit, and Anatolia, and Hatti, we have a host of feminine solar deities: the Sun Goddess of Arinna; Hebat; Hannahannas; and others. We also have a host of Arabic moon-gods, based heavily off of Nanna (called Sueno or Sin in later cultures). So, in reality, the traditionally accepted dichotomy is switched; the sun being the fertile feminine, the moon being the receptive masculine.

In Celtic religions, the feminine solar archetype, held by the triple-goddess Brighit, is just as potent (if not more-so) than her masculine counterparts: Lugh the great warrior, and Mabon the glowing child. In fact, Celtia actually highly favors the feminine in almost all aspects. Brighit the triple-goddess of light, artistry, and martial skill is far more important in their myths than Lugh and Mabon. Additionally, lunar goddesses like the Morrigan and Arianrhod were very important mythological figures. Each aspect of these triple-goddesses was even said to be a triplicity herself, making 9 lunar goddesses total, for every lunar triple-goddess.

As I said above, it is only when we reach Greece that the pantheon divides, and the sun becomes masculine, and the moon feminine. This movement, however, does not necessarily continue anywhere else. The only other masculine/solar representation, present in Western cultures, stems from the Romanization of Christianity. Jesus is the son of God, light of the world, et al. Jesus is God's Sun. The sun.

This is hardly a common theme though.

Outside of that, I agree with your Yin-Yang interpretation, very well done.

~ Scribe

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


This is true, in some perspective you can say "silence" does not oppose "sound" it compliments it.

The self compliments whole, without self the whole is incomplete.

In the yin, there is a small circle of yang.
In the yang, there is a small circle of yin.

Originally posted by arpgme
Here is an image of The Yin-Yang symbol (this is just in case you do not know how it looks):



The symbol is a circle with two sides. The left side is darkness (Yin) with a small circle of light within. The right side is light (Yang) with a small circle of darkness within.

The light represents The Giving. The darkness represents The Taking. This is why most cultures considered The Sun to be masculine and The Moon to be feminine. The Sun gives energy and The Moon receives it.

This is also true in sexual intercourse, The Male gives (the sperm) and The Female receives (in the egg).

With Yin - Darkness, there is freedom and creativity.
With Yang - Light, there is order and logic.

If there were only Yin, there would be complete chaos (no logic or order at all).
If there were only Yang, there would be complete slavery (no randomness, individuality, or creativity at all).

Yin is The Self.
Yang is The Collective - The All.

It is important that we do not see "darkness" as evil, but understand that as the individual aspect. If you feel "emptiness" or "loneliness" in the dark, this is the way you feel deep down inside when by yourself.

As for light, if you feel "slavery" or "judgement", this is the way that you see and feel towards others.

There is nothing wrong with "self" it is a part of the Yin-Yang. So love yourself and do not demonize the self and worship the collective. Understand that they are both important.

I only have a couple of thoughts to add to this as it occurs to my understanding.

Darkness represent the hidden internal process (experience), light represents the obvious external process
(experience) - why the moon represents that which is done in secrecy and the sun that which is done in the open. But I think the concept of secrecy and open has less to do with what is good or bad and more to do with what is obvious and what is obscured from sight.

Yin energy is represents the collective's hidden (out of sight) process, yang the collective in view process. Both together represent the all.

Yin is the self as it appears to the self, Yang the self as it appears to others.
The moon reflects, the sun radiates.
The earth nurtures the seed, the seed starts by taking it's energy from the earth , then it emerges from hidden view and takes it's energy from the sun. The seed then proceeds to give it's energy to the animal that feeds of/on it and so on. The yin/yang relationship is a constant flux in each and every thing, balance is found when these aspects are recognized and allowed to take care of the process it governs without constraint.

Yin/Yang can not represent completely different things they are two aspects of every thing. Everything has an yin and a yang aspect which is why the symbol as a whole represents the all and the energetic relationship between these two aspects within the all.


Just thoughts.... much love, lovely topic.

reply to post by IAmD1


That is very well said.

The Yin is darkness. Darkness is usually associated with the sub-conscious mind so it should be reasonable to people how we came to the conclusion of Yin being Inner Force, especially since it absorbs.

yes ying sounds good, in traditional chinese medicine it turns up I think. or perhaps it was jing. Really it is a way of mapping or creating duality. We all know duality is a dream dont we? I am sure there will be plenty of hands raised up to say no its not a dream its real, even some who are willing to prove it to you. But does that really matter if its a dream? depends on murphys law! on and on we must chatter.

reply to post by arpgme


I see it differently.

Black is the colour of the receptive nature, the feminine, passive principle.
White is the colour of the giving nature, the masculine, active principle.
We need to effectively use both. We need to give and receive.
For one to give, someone has to receive.
Give and receive. Its in the flow that the secret lies.

Receive and then give.
Receive energy from others (good and bad) and give energy (good).

To do this you need to be able to transmute energy, from negative to positive, this way you give positive although you receive it all.

This is very important, this flow of energy.

When you talk you are giving, someone must be in silence, paying attention to your words, receiving.
We must learn how to give but also how to receive.
Equilibrium means that we know how to do both.

reply to post by Manula


I'm not sure what is different about what you said...
What exactly is the difference you see?

reply to post by arpgme


You see white as collective, dark as self, i don't.
I see dark as receptive, i see white as giver, they both have to do with self, we all have to know how to give energy and how to receive energy.
This is an energetic talk, that's how i see it, energetically, white gives, black receives, we have both and we have to learn how to use them.

reply to post by arpgme


I think you understand what the Yin-Yang represents but the Buddhist representation of it is actually to exemplify non-duality as opposed to actual duality. If there were no small dots and simply a black and white symbol, then it would represent duality.

The Yin-Yang illustrates how there can be no black and white because the other is represented inherently in each. The incredibly misinterpreted depiction of Baphomet by Eliphas Levi was based in the Yin-Yang concept. In fact, Baphomet is Yin-Yang personified.

Regardless, you explained it very well but semantics (as usual in our language) gets in the way.

reply to post by Manula


No, I don't see white as "collect" and black as "self" - that is why I mentioned the two little dots of opposites in each. Yin has a small dot of Yang, and Yang has a small dot of Yin. In that sense, they both refer to self.

White is Giving, it is your relationship to the collective - what you give. Dark is Taking, it is your relationship with you, how you are receiving the Light (Collective World) around you.

reply to post by arpgme


But why collective? Giving to a partner is a 1 to 1 relationship.
Collective is not the best word, maybe relationship to other persons, in groups or 1 to 1.
But yeah its more clear now.
Nice one. I do agree with you.

reply to post by Manula


It is collective because it is the all. It is the unity (love). When you interact with others, whether it is just one person or many, you are tapping into the collective - the all. When you are alone looking at your own thoughts and feelings you separate to look at your own identity as an individual.

You can see yourself as "a human" or you can see yourself as "humanity" (since you are a part of it), both are the same just two different sides.

reply to post by arpgme


We are also part of the whole, we are also a part of the unity.
When you say collective you are pointing to a wrong concept, we give energy to others.
Service to self, service to others. You know what, self and other selves, we are all one, so we always serve the whole.
But the point is, we should not receive energy only for us, we should receive and give, its a flow, the energy shouldn't stop in us, it must flow, so we have to give and receive life.
Its this balance between giving and receiving that we are to achieve, balancing the poles: white/Black, Feminine/Masculine, Positive/Negative etc etc.

This is when you transcend duality because you conquer the apparent conflict between giving and receiving.

In astrology its the sun and the moon.

I do agree with you, its just a matter of semantics.

There is only one 'energy', the energy of the consciousness upon which the whole universe is built. You can place various 'spins' upon this energy which is the basis of new age vibratory theory but you canot have complete Yin or Yang energy for Yin Yang represents the joining of the illusory duality. There will never be one without some presence of the other.

Within the masculine there is always some aspect of the feminine. Within the darkness there is always some light. The self is present within the collective and the collective is present within the self. This is why (as Cuervo pointed out above) there is a little circle of Yin within the Yang and visa versa. You can tip the scales in favor of one or the other, indeed there are few things that exist within the physical plane that have an equal balance of both. The illusion of duality is actually the main reason the physical plane exists.

Imagine if you can that you are God in the formless void prior to the big bang. How would one know yourself as God if there is nothing but God? How would you know yourself unless there is something other than 'self'. To know 'here' there must be 'there', to know light there must be darkness. To know giving one must receive and to look within there must be without. Hence Creation

But there is no darkness or light, no here nor there. There is no within, no up nor down, no you nor me. Just God experiencing every experience necessary to understand all there is to understand in order to know himself as God through the illusion of duality via the processes of space and time.