Firefighters Ordered to Remove American Flags From Their Trucks

I agree this is pretty sad, but the removal or disrespect toward the flag has been going on for a long time now.
Every time one of our freedoms is taken away, like the Patriotic Act or NDAA, the flag is spit upon.
Every time we engage in offensive foreign wars and foreign entanglements, the flag is spit on.
Every time some corporation or financial entity invades our government for special favors, the flag is spit on.

So, while removing the flag to not offend the sensibilities of these people is a disgrace, the bigger disgrace and greatest impact is the ones that are doing it daily in our Government, in the Big Corporations and Financial Business's that have their claws in it, and in the Offensive War Machine.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Got another source other than a right wing propaganda site?

Seriously? I didn't realize the American Flag was a Right Wing/Left Wing thing.

But here you go: SOURCE

How utterly petty.

Reply to post by phantomjack

Everyone who is in America realizes, excluding people who may have limited mental capacity, that we are in America. The flags are flown at every city hall, stadium, etc. Do we really need them on fire trucks? We know what country we live in, we dont need reminders...like whats the point? If you want to be proud personally go get a tatto or one of those tacky american flag tshirts.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by pwndnewb
Wow. So much ado about a flag.

I was intrigued by this. Upon looking, I found out that there is US code regarding the flag. www.usflag.org...

Previous to Flag Day, June 14, 1923 there were no federal or state regulations governing display of the United States Flag. It was on this date that the National Flag Code was adopted by the National Flag Conference which was attended by representatives of the Army and Navy which had evolved their own procedures, and some 66 other national groups. This purpose of providing guidance based on the Army and Navy procedures relating to display and associated questions about the U. S. Flag was adopted by all organizations in attendance.

This code is the guide for all handling and display of the Stars and Stripes. It does not impose penalties for misuse of the United States Flag. That is left to the states and to the federal government for the District of Columbia. Each state has its own flag law.

§175. Position and manner of display
(b) The flag should not be draped over the hood, top, sides, or back of a vehicle or of a railroad train or a boat. When the flag is displayed on a motorcar, the staff shall be fixed firmly to the chassis or clamped to the right fender.

§176. Respect for flag
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

The OP's link doesn't state how the Fire Department was displaying the flag on the vehicle. Perhaps the flag was attatched to the back of the vehicle with no staff. If so, then it appears that it may have been inappropriately displayed.

Come on. Do you really believe this is about a CODE issue? Or do you think that the fire chief knows he screwed up and is using the CODE as cover?

I only wish it were that simple, but I think it goes far beyond CODE.

Originally posted by drwizardphd
I live in Seminole County Florida, and I'm sorry to rain on this thread, but the article is mostly bunk.

Seminole County Fire Department - American Flags on Fire Engines

Posted on: 7/16/2012


Sanford, FL - Seminole County Fire Department has received multiple calls regarding the recent news story aired about the City of Seminole Fire Rescue in Pinellas County not allowing the American flag to be displayed on their fire engines.

Seminole County Fire Department does allow the flag to be displayed on our units.

For current information about their policy, please contact the City of Seminole Fire Rescue located in Pinellas County.

Source


Local coverage has been all over this, the issue was that the flags were in the vehicle's windows, which was against code:

SEMINOLE --

Horns were honking for red, white and blue Sunday, as protesters lined the road near the Seminole Fire Department after being told firefighters had to remove small American flags that were flying from fire engine windows.

The order to remove the flags came from Seminole Fire Chief George Bessler after the department received a complaint from a community member about flag placement.

City officials referred to U.S. Code Title 36 Chapter 10, section 175 that states hanging flags out windows is a violation. When the flag is displayed on a motorcar, the code states the staff has to be fixed to the chassis or the right fender.

Source



The firefighters are still allowed to put flags on their trucks, they just can't be in the windows where they could potentially obstruct the view and interfere with proper operation of the vehicle.

Seminole county did not give in to "anti-American interests" as the OP's article seems to imply. It was a simple matter of safety.


I expect better from ATS, but I'm not really sure why anymore.

I appreciate the fact that you have brought this to light.

At the time of my post, there were only a handful of news sources. Apparently, since those news sources created a ruckus, more information has come to light.

Thank you for the inside information, that only now seems to be hitting the net.

Originally posted by phantomjack

So that flag, which MILLIONS have died defending, is "Silly?"

Oh my.

Well, just to be fully accurate.

That Flag, that has been Responsible for Killing Millions as well, with the Ticker still counting.

USA USA

Originally posted by phantomjack

Originally posted by pwndnewb
Wow. So much ado about a flag.

I was intrigued by this. Upon looking, I found out that there is US code regarding the flag. www.usflag.org...

Previous to Flag Day, June 14, 1923 there were no federal or state regulations governing display of the United States Flag. It was on this date that the National Flag Code was adopted by the National Flag Conference which was attended by representatives of the Army and Navy which had evolved their own procedures, and some 66 other national groups. This purpose of providing guidance based on the Army and Navy procedures relating to display and associated questions about the U. S. Flag was adopted by all organizations in attendance.

This code is the guide for all handling and display of the Stars and Stripes. It does not impose penalties for misuse of the United States Flag. That is left to the states and to the federal government for the District of Columbia. Each state has its own flag law.

§175. Position and manner of display
(b) The flag should not be draped over the hood, top, sides, or back of a vehicle or of a railroad train or a boat. When the flag is displayed on a motorcar, the staff shall be fixed firmly to the chassis or clamped to the right fender.

§176. Respect for flag
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

The OP's link doesn't state how the Fire Department was displaying the flag on the vehicle. Perhaps the flag was attatched to the back of the vehicle with no staff. If so, then it appears that it may have been inappropriately displayed.

Come on. Do you really believe this is about a CODE issue? Or do you think that the fire chief knows he screwed up and is using the CODE as cover?

I only wish it were that simple, but I think it goes far beyond CODE.

The answer to your riddle is on page 2..
This has nothing to do with the flag code, or "unpatriotic" Americans. The flags were blocking the windows and were a safety issue..

Now everyone continue to ignore these facts and go on with the vitriol and outrage.. Damn Communists.

Originally posted by PulsusHilarisCaro

Originally posted by sputniksteve
reply to post by PulsusHilarisCaro

 

I can see your stay at ATS will be a short one. Registered on the 10th, banned on the....

Banned for calling people who go off to war over a flag "useful idiots". Fine. Ban me. The PTB that require the dismemberment and slaughter of "useful idiots" to fight their useless wars will stand up and applaud.

Maybe it's time that peeps start getting a clue about war, flags, symbolic BS and their play in this global charade.

Flags have been fought for since the beginning of civilizations.

I believe that man used to hang the skins of dead animals at the entrance to their caves as a sign of superiority.

I dont know how you think that this behavior will ever change on this planet and with human kind?

Originally posted by PulsusHilarisCaro
reply to post by PeaNice

 

I'm off this thread, I have no time or desire to argue about the validity [none] of getting yourself - myself - shot to bits, blown apart or returning "luckily" with a serious mental disability [PTS]...all for a bunch of cloth.

Unsubscribe.

WAIT! You forgot your bag of marbles!!!!

Lol welcome to the British way of life America

Originally posted by alfa1

1. Mostly, ATS readers are idiots.
2. This story was days old and out of date even as it was posted. The "issue" has already been solved.
3. Once again, somebody saw a headline and made a thread, not bothering to read the source of the original story, but instead grab a second hand report.
4. Once again people jump to conclusions based on nothing.
5. Once again, the OP, and NONE of the responders (except for drwizardphd) didnt bother to do any further research before commenting. Otherwise they'd know the story was already out of date.

"There is a real small rule way down in the flag code that says it's supposed to be attached to the right front fender," Kennedy explained.
The fire department's maintenance division will fashion a special bracket to mount the flag so it complies with federal code.

link

Ah, so, since you are on ATS, does that make you an "Idiot" or are you exempting yourself with the word, "Most"?

The PROTEST over the issue happened YESTERDAY. I hardly call that old news. And from what I am told by relatives in Seminole, this CODE issue didn't come out until DAYS after the report broke. How convenient.

So lets theorize. Chief makes mistake to appease a few complaints, then realizes that he is in a world of #, then decides to site a flag code violation as the reason. Yet, the articles make no mention of the names or identities of the so called "defenders of the flag code" -- heck, if I were one of those people, defending the way a flag was hung, I would want my name plastered everywhere for being a hero.

Yet, all I hear is crickets.

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by alfa1

 

Oh aren't you the big smart ATS reader, calling everyone else idiots...

The article you refer to about the solution was just put online 1 hour ago!!!!

If I could double star you, I would. Thanks for pointing that out.

The Chief got COOKED and all of a sudden needed to cite some code violation. Really?

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Reply to post by phantomjack

 

Everyone who is in America realizes, excluding people who may have limited mental capacity, that we are in America. The flags are flown at every city hall, stadium, etc. Do we really need them on fire trucks? We know what country we live in, we dont need reminders...like whats the point? If you want to be proud personally go get a tatto or one of those tacky american flag tshirts.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

That simply is not the issue here.

Are you saying that just because someone else said what you are thinking that you do not have the right to say it as well?

The point is, the flag is the flag. Anyone with half a brain knows what it stands for. And if I want to wallpaper my house with it (I will have to check the "CODE" on that), then I should have the right to.

Same as, you having the first amendment right to say what you want here on ATS -- within the boundaries of the T&C. But without the 1st amendment, there would be no ATS and no T&C.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by phantomjack

So that flag, which MILLIONS have died defending, is "Silly?"

Oh my.

Well, just to be fully accurate.

That Flag, that has been Responsible for Killing Millions as well, with the Ticker still counting.

USA USA

Too bad you see it that way. If you are referring to WWI and WWII, yes, Millions died. But beyond those two wars, BS. Next you are going to bring up Iraq and Afghanistan, in your "count" right?

LOL

Is this to become the American Flag of tomorrow?

reply to post by fixer1967


God I hope not! But I am afraid most Americans don't give a poo any more as long as they can have all the TV garbage they want and ipod, ipad, iphone, ilife they think they deserve!

There would not be a problem with painting a flag on the side of the fire engine.

The problem is with the conventional flag -- a flag mast sticking out, a sizeable chunk of fabric flapping -- something to get in the way, maybe even injure someone, on a high speed vehicle and so forth, made all the worse by the fact that it is not a mechanical necessity in fighting a fire.

Originally posted by Shoonra
There would not be a problem with painting a flag on the side of the fire engine.

The problem is with the conventional flag -- a flag mast sticking out, a sizeable chunk of fabric flapping -- something to get in the way, maybe even injure someone, on a high speed vehicle and so forth, made all the worse by the fact that it is not a mechanical necessity in fighting a fire.

Did you not check out the link or video? They was made to remove ALL flags of all types.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Reply to post by phantomjack

 

Everyone who is in America realizes, excluding people who may have limited mental capacity, that we are in America. The flags are flown at every city hall, stadium, etc. Do we really need them on fire trucks? We know what country we live in, we dont need reminders...like whats the point? If you want to be proud personally go get a tatto or one of those tacky american flag tshirts.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

I don't personally think it's a question of whether we need them on the trucks or not. No one is talking about orders requiring them to be flown, although on Municipal Vehicle, I wouldn't see the problem. The question is, should we have the display our our national FLAG of all things, specifically prohibited from city, state or federal vehicles?

This is Anti-American to the point of just being pathetic. Whats next? A requirement to put Police and Fire vehicle labels in multiple languages? I can almost see that but for the cost involved.

reply to post by phantomjack


The complaints may have come from Anti-Union/ Anti-Government right wingers who are offended that people who they hate so desperately and whom they have been told on the radio are Anti-American all the time, happen to have a symbol of America on their truck. It's kind of hard to call them Anti-American with an American flag waving on their truck. So, they call to complain hoping they can get the flags removed.

Trace it back and I am almost certain that this is the case.