Would having a fake gun be a possible alternative to a real one?

reply to post by SprocketUK


Like Tucco said in The Good, The Bad and the Ugly.

"When you gotta shoot, shoot! Don't Talk!"

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Originally posted by earthdude
The imaginary gun is a much better weapon. It has saved me several times. You have to be a good actor. Never actually pull it out, as they cannot see it and it will spoil the bluff.

Don't even allude to it. Just be overly confident and assertive! Has saved me many times, I've even mentioned a couple of them on ATS.

Overt confidence, directness, and eye-contact can go a long, long way.

Doesn't scare alligators or bears though. For that you need the real gun.

Bears and Alligators are not afraid of guns, just the sound and the feeling of the bullets. I have known dogs and cats that know what guns do. If I really needed a gun and could not get one, I would just make one. To pull anything out that kills, or looks like it kills, and not be willing to kill, is a very dangerous thing. Best to run away.

reply to post by earthdude




That was kind of my point. Guns are meant to be felt, and then seen and heard. They are not meant to be seen, and then maybe heard or felt.

If I have to pull my gun out of its holster, there is a good chance the person responsible will never see it. In 20 years, I've been in many fights, and many tense situations, a couple of times even with police involvement, and not once have I ever even mentioned that I had a gun on my person. I did mention it to the police in the aftermath a couple of times, and they were very respectful. They took it, unloaded it, filled out all their paperwork, and then gave it back and asked me not to reload it until they were gone, to which I agreed.

The bear and the alligator are not going to respond to the threat of a gun. Neither will the hardened criminal, and the petty criminal will likely panic and shoot you if you threaten to pull your gun. The best way to have a gun is covertly. If you need it, it is there, and the confidence that you have that ultimate backup plan will hopefully help you act assertively enough to diffuse a situation before it escalates that far.

If you are unsuccessful in diffusing the situation, and the attacking bear or alligator or gangster is intent on doing you harm, then shoot them. Don't threaten, don't brandish, just shoot.

A relative of mine used to keep a broken shotgun in the house.

She believed the sound of racking the slide was adequate protection and would cause the intruder to flee.

I asked, "what if it isnt? It only has to not work once for bad things to happen."

That weekend she bought a new shotgun.

I think we have all answered the OP's question. a fake gun is really good if you want to get shot with a real gun.
Personally i think just pointing your finger and yelling "bang" would be more effective because someone might feel bad stealing from or shooting someone who is obviously mentally challenged.

Guns are kind of like knives, you don't ever want to pull one out to scare someone. The trick is not letting them find out you have one until they are already injured by it.

reply to post by getreadyalready

Every situation is different, sometimes any object in the hand works. I just watched a video of a guy scaring off a lion with a roll of toilet paper, and attitude, attitude is essential.

reply to post by r2d246

You are talking about a real meltdown, as you state. Consider this in that situation. As things fall apart and you come into the situation you'd imagine needing this, people are seeing violence and dying outside. Real guns would probably get downright shocking in some countrys by just who DID happen to have one or more than no one ever knew existed.

Into that, you come with a fake one or one designed to be less than lethal...like a BB gun. Well, first, guns are valuable. If someone believes it IS real and that you aren't confident to use it...they'll go to steal it from you. That wouldn't end any better, I'm thinking, when they discover all that effort was for a toy. It might end worse, actually.

If you DO find the situation where you have to 'use' it, That's the ultimate one trick pony because a bluff called is your life and it didn't necessarily have to be. If you'd been unarmed, maybe a person had no intention of shooting or otherwise killing you.....but once sight of a weapon came up? Well, real or not, it escalated things into a life and death fight, instantly, for someone who you'd be facing and was serious. Get Pepper Spray if nothing else? There are many possibilities, but most break the law and well, I'l a law abiding bunny.

reply to post by r2d246


Owning a gun is a natural right, because man is born free and sovereign. When America was founded, that fact was recognized. The reason Canada and almost every other nation has made it difficult, if not impossible, to own a firearm is because the citizens of those nations allow their respective governments to run their lives. In America, the 2nd amendment is there to protect all of the other rights, and to give the citizenry a means of fighting back against an overbearing, tyrannical government. It has nothing to do with hunting. Owning a fake gun makes about as much sense as trying to drive a fake car to work tomorrow, or eating fake food for dinner.

reply to post by r2d246


Seems like a perfectly logica; way to get yourself shot by someone with a REAL gun. Toy or not, point it at me and you're getting shot. Im not taking the split second to try and determine if its real or not. A split second is all you need to kill me if its real and its not a chance Im willing to take. Just my thoughts

Learn sniper tactics, go paintballing and learn how to distinguish distance of shots fired, self-defense tactics such as range and gun disarmament, situational awareness and presence of self and others in an environment.
Practice parkour/free running techniques, check out Mirrors Edge for concepts.

This is how I have allocated the use of a gun in Canada.

You don't NEED a gun to survive, it helps though. You will need these skills.
You could in theory enclose on a shooters position if need be and take their weapon,
or escape if you know his locale and possible movements. It's all about the moment.

Originally posted by yourmaker
Learn sniper tactics, go paintballing and learn how to distinguish distance of shots fired, self-defense tactics such as range and gun disarmament, situational awareness and presence of self and others in an environment.
Practice parkour/free running techniques, check out Mirrors Edge for concepts.

This is how I have allocated the use of a gun in Canada.

You don't NEED a gun to survive, it helps though. You will need these skills.
You could in theory enclose on a shooters position if need be and take their weapon,
or escape if you know his locale and possible movements. It's all about the moment.

edit on 16-7-2012 by yourmaker because: (no reason given)

Yeah... Play mirrors edge and shoot a paintball gun- while you are at it watch superman. That is how i learned how to fly

speaking of survival. How would one survive the apocoliptic locusts attacks all around the world. The news has locusts attack anything that is green and leave a wake of plant destruction behind them. California, arkansas, tennesse, texas, austrailia, russia, usa, africa, and many others that are not being mentioned about this year. What about the FOOD? I do believe you will need to eat in a survival situation. All these locust attacks everywhere this year and it is sooo hot. WHERE ARE ALL THESE LOCUSTS COMMING FROM? They eating up all the crops. WTF. whats going on?

I think your better off with a cross-bow.

If even those are illegal then just get a normal bow and arrow.

In a society where guns are not the norm I am pretty sure you can protect your self with pepperspray in one hand and a baseball bat in the other. So nix the toy gun idea.

Ok..say I point my LOADED Glock 9mm at your head...while you point your fake at me....see the point? There is no point in fake guns...youll just get killed by the real one.

5 guys break down your door and point 5 loaded handguns and shot guns at you..while you jump up from behind the couch waving your plastic 38 yelling.."STOP! Stop right there or Ill shoot!"

You will die.

Dont.

Die.

don't listen to those naysayers you get out that toy and brandish away...

now be a good sport and let us know where you live and what kind of stuff you have?

reply to post by BASSPLYR


Oh ya if the shtf you'd be a real stone cold killer all of a sudden wouldn't you now. ha ha right.

Originally posted by DavidWillts

Originally posted by yourmaker
Learn sniper tactics, go paintballing and learn how to distinguish distance of shots fired, self-defense tactics such as range and gun disarmament, situational awareness and presence of self and others in an environment.
Practice parkour/free running techniques, check out Mirrors Edge for concepts.

This is how I have allocated the use of a gun in Canada.

You don't NEED a gun to survive, it helps though. You will need these skills.
You could in theory enclose on a shooters position if need be and take their weapon,
or escape if you know his locale and possible movements. It's all about the moment.

edit on 16-7-2012 by yourmaker because: (no reason given)

Yeah... Play mirrors edge and shoot a paintball gun- while you are at it watch superman. That is how i learned how to fly

the amount of sarcasm in your tone, I want to punch you through the screen.
people like you are the worst kind of idiot

If personal defense is your priority, owning a firearm is only one method of achieving that goal.

There are:

Extendable Batons
Pepper Sprays
Bear Mace
Knives
Swords
Baseball Bats (Highly Recommended)
Tools like a Hammer
Break-Barrel pellet rifle (1000FPS)
CO2 Powered Repeater Pellet Rifle or Pistol (600FPS)
Tazer/Stun Gun

All of these are deterrents and not necessarily effective for home defense unless paired with physical strength and stress training. The only plus to owning a firearm is that it allows you to obtain lethality with little to no skill in close quarter situations.

I hope my list helped.

In a SHTF scenario, no. In the modern world, yes - but it better be a damn good and accurate fake gun that is virtually identical to what it is supposed to be.

I doubt most people here have every actually pulled a gun on anybody and know much of what they are talking about it. Just my thoughts. The point is, the gun - 99.9% of the time, will more than likely be holstered on someone's waist. Just that visual is enough to prevent anyone who doesn't have a gun from escalating any kind of situation or attempting a robbery on you or someone in your presence.

But I'm sure you are all every day gunslingers, no?

I have a blank shooting revolver I carry around from time to time when dealing with domestic situations. It looks identical to a real revolver, but the barrel is plugged. Do you think anyone has ever questioned as to whether or not the gun on my waist is fake before they chose to stay calm in those situations? No. They assumed that it was a real firearm and that I had it for any such emergency situations. To me, a gun is a preventative tool first and a defense mechanism last.

So yes, in modern times, especially where you can get away with it, why not? I couldn't possibly see how it could hurt you as some people say. I certainly have never seen someone with a gun holstered on their waist and drew mine because of it. Now sure if these people are living in the wild wild west or what.



But as I said, in a SHTF scenario - hell no. Unless you can defend yourself with that weapon, it is just a target that people will try to take. It would be better to not have it at all.