Survey: How Many Have Switched from Extraterrestrial Hypothesis to Interdimensional?

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by bluestreak53
So what are you saying here? The "inter-dimensionals" are actually X-rays? or Radio waves? or maybe just aerial borne aromas?

No, I'm giving an example of arenas that lie outside normal perception. Seeing how UFOs are so often tied to extreme light phenomenon, however, there might be some concatenation.

It is true that most reported "UFOs" are nothing more than points of light in the night sky that confuse the witness. If there is (or are) real anomalies that explain some of these, then I see your point. But by definition, if the witness "sees something" it is inside "normal perception". There may be "real light producing" anomalies, as yet unknown or unexplained by science - similar to some of the plasma phenomena discovered recently associated with upper atmosphere electrical disturbances.

But I tend to draw a distinction between such "light producing anomalies", and any UFOs I would consider to have a potential source associated with anything manufactured by ET..

Originally posted by The GUT

To my knowledge there are no "entities" that are manifestations of X-rays or radio waves.

Nor are there any examples of extraterrestrial civilizations visiting our planet in any extant scientific journals as far as I can tell.

There is, on the other hand, a vast number of historical accounts straddling a wide-range of phenomenology that share a multitude of characteristics that suggest, to many, one causation for all.

That causation could very well be something in our subconscious and even possibly related to Jung's theory of the "collective unconscious."

If, on the other hand, it is indeed a reality that is beyond our human perception as of yet, then the historical literature & experience in conjunction with the paradox inherent in the ETH suggests something entirely different than "space men."

Something that continues to outbox and outfox the short, short arms of science up to this point.

As far as the "IDH" goes, I would say that at least Jung's theories represent part of current psychological theory and ideas. But I don't think anyone has verified the existence of Jung's "collective unconscious". (It is at best a provisional hypothesis - intended to explain what can't be explained through current scientific theory).

Likewise, there is many, many descriptions of entities which have been described as "angels, demons, djinn", etc. These exist as part of our cultural and religious folklore. We do know that some of these can be accounted by fairly common sleep disturbances, like "sleep paralysis".

My original post was simply a reply to someone who seemed to be suggesting that the ETH was "speculative" and all I was saying is that anything so far described as "Inter-dimensional" is pretty much just speculation (in terms of scientific explanations).

I think this thread mostly references people's "intuition" or "belief". I have no problem with that. I have my own belief in "guardian angels" from anomalous personal and family experiences. But as best as I can tell, my guardian angel is probably an ET entity.

Originally posted by bluestreak53
...Likewise, there is many, many descriptions of entities which have been described as "angels, demons, djinn", etc. These exist as part of our cultural and religious folklore. We do know that some of these can be accounted by fairly common sleep disturbances, like "sleep paralysis"...

...I think this thread mostly references people's "intuition" or "belief". I have no problem with that. I have my own belief in "guardian angels" from anomalous personal and family experiences. But as best as I can tell, my guardian angel is probably an ET entity.

You're a good thinker, bluestreak, don't get me wrong. Your contributions here are welcome and I'm sure that many think the way that you do on the subject. And, we agree on some things.

I would suggest though, that if your guardian angel isn't hallucinatory and/or sleep paralysis then maybe you're much closer to some dimensional interpretation than you think.

What I mean is this: Would it seem more likely that you've garnered the attention of an extraterrestrial being who has developed along evolutionary lines into a being with supernatural--some would say God-like powers--who pays enough attention to you to be a "guardian," or rather, to see your experience in terms of something closer to home and which is found in the various spiritual traditions of the ages?

I certainly don't discount your experience at all, but I would like to know what makes you think it's extraterrestrial in nature?

In the meantime here's a run down on craft types that seems pretty inclusive. It's a looong list. Of course I do take into account the thought noted by bluestreak: Just because it was reported doesn't necessarily mean it was a true anomalous event. But the list encompasses types that have been reported over & over. Make of it what you will.

UFO Types Technical Overview

reply to post by The GUT


I wanted to include my one-time daylight sighting of a UFO to the list of types. Back in 1996 I'd say, one of my sons and I saw this thing just sitting in the sky that looked to me like three spheres connected together by some kind of bars or rods. My son thought it looked like two spheres but my impression was that two were almost lined up because of the angle we were viewing it that it appeared to be two, if that makes sense. At any rate, we were kind of looking at this thing sitting in the sky in a daze and not really consciously noticing it until I suddenly said "Hey, that thing shouldn't be up there" and then it was gone... just like that. My son still remembers seeing it, though my ex-wife and my other kids that were there at the time don't.

A note about guardian angels/ETs, I also had an experience with an entity in the '70s that I didn't recognize at first as an actual personality or being. It was at first a familiar feeling that I had and it was a comforting presence that was always with me and energizing me and giving me a thirst for exploring and understanding what I perceived to be the true nature of life and of being. I was getting a sort of what now-adays would be called a new-age perspective. Anyway, when I turned my back on the thing it attacked me violently, in the only way they can, psychologically. In a moment it showed me its true nature, and that was not very nice... I can't say there aren't good guides/angels etc. around us because I believe there are, but I can attest to the fact that there are opportunistic entities that want nothing less than to destroy us.

Originally posted by wtbengineer
A note about guardian angels/ETs, I also had an experience with an entity in the '70s that I didn't recognize at first as an actual personality or being. It was at first a familiar feeling that I had and it was a comforting presence that was always with me and energizing me and giving me a thirst for exploring and understanding what I perceived to be the true nature of life and of being. I was getting a sort of what now-adays would be called a new-age perspective. Anyway, when I turned my back on the thing it attacked me violently, in the only way they can, psychologically. In a moment it showed me its true nature, and that was not very nice... I can't say there aren't good guides/angels etc. around us because I believe there are, but I can attest to the fact that there are opportunistic entities that want nothing less than to destroy us.

Well, I don't think your experience has anything to do with "guardian angels" (or what I would consider to be a guardian angel.)

My experience with what I term "guardian angel" involves no such "feeling of a comforting presence that is always energizing me". (But that does sound pretty "new agey").

My experience with guardian angels is an apparent unexplained intervention which saves you from almost certain death in a logic defying manner. It has not just happened to me, but also my parents. It is like "the hand of god" reaches into the moment and saves you from certain calamity, just to "keep you in the game" - presumably, because your "mission" on this planet is not yet complete.

This is not some airy, fairy, mystic experience, but something that is very physical and yet seems to defy our normal sense of what is logical or reasonable.

reply to post by bluestreak53



I agree with your assessment completely. That is exactly how I understand guardian angels to work. I did not mean to imply that the thing that attacked me was anything of this sort. It was malevolent. I was young and was misled. I thank God that He has opened my eyes.

Originally posted by bluestreak53
Well, I don't think your experience has anything to do with "guardian angels" (or what I would consider to be a guardian angel.)

My experience with what I term "guardian angel" involves no such "feeling of a comforting presence that is always energizing me". (But that does sound pretty "new agey").

My experience with guardian angels is an apparent unexplained intervention which saves you from almost certain death in a logic defying manner. It has not just happened to me, but also my parents. It is like "the hand of god" reaches into the moment and saves you from certain calamity, just to "keep you in the game" - presumably, because your "mission" on this planet is not yet complete.

This is not some airy, fairy, mystic experience, but something that is very physical and yet seems to defy our normal sense of what is logical or reasonable.

No, yours doesn't sound like wtbengineer's, yours sounds like it could've been coincidence marred with an overactive imagination. You say "logic defying" yet give no details and then manage to sound rather arrogant and dismissive about someone else's experience who just happened to actually give detail.

And, if it's not an overactive imagination, you've still not explained why "E.T." is invested in saving your family's life. That sounds like an "airy-fairy" conclusion to me.

wtbengineer is a guy I have a lot of respect for, so far your just a rather snobby poster with an undetailed suspect story. Please have some respect for the other guests here.

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by bluestreak53
Well, I don't think your experience has anything to do with "guardian angels" (or what I would consider to be a guardian angel.)

My experience with what I term "guardian angel" involves no such "feeling of a comforting presence that is always energizing me". (But that does sound pretty "new agey").

My experience with guardian angels is an apparent unexplained intervention which saves you from almost certain death in a logic defying manner. It has not just happened to me, but also my parents. It is like "the hand of god" reaches into the moment and saves you from certain calamity, just to "keep you in the game" - presumably, because your "mission" on this planet is not yet complete.

This is not some airy, fairy, mystic experience, but something that is very physical and yet seems to defy our normal sense of what is logical or reasonable.

No, yours doesn't sound like wtbengineer's, yours sounds like it could've been coincidence marred with an overactive imagination. You say "logic defying" yet give no details and then manage to sound rather arrogant and dismissive about someone else's experience who just happened to actually give detail.

And, if it's not an overactive imagination, you've still not explained why "E.T." is invested in saving your family's life. That sounds like an "airy-fairy" conclusion to me.

wtbengineer is a guy I have a lot of respect for, so far your just a rather snobby poster with an undetailed suspect story. Please have some respect for the other guests here.

I did not in any way mean for that to be a "snobby" post. I was simply clarifying that my experience was not in any way similar to that which was described by the other person posting - that was labelled as a "guardian angel" experience.

However, judging from your response, I am disinclined to provide more details of my experiences or my families, as you have already judged them to be "airy-fairy".

The story is a long one and I am certainly not going to bother describing these anomalous experiences when you have already displayed a closed mind.

Without knowing the details of my experiences, or my families, you are already saying "it could be coincidence".

I am not here to try and change anyone's beliefs. And if I felt I had scientific "proof" to back up what I have already described as a "belief", then I probably would have already presented it. Experiences that happen to an individual, that are not recorded and witnessed are not in any way accepted as proof.

So all I can say is "good day".

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by bluestreak53
So what are you saying here? The "inter-dimensionals" are actually X-rays? or Radio waves? or maybe just aerial borne aromas?

No, I'm giving an example of arenas that lie outside normal perception. Seeing how UFOs are so often tied to extreme light phenomenon, however, there might be some concatenation.

To my knowledge there are no "entities" that are manifestations of X-rays or radio waves.

Nor are there any examples of extraterrestrial civilizations visiting our planet in any extant scientific journals as far as I can tell.

There is, on the other hand, a vast number of historical accounts straddling a wide-range of phenomenology that share a multitude of characteristics that suggest, to many, one causation for all.

That causation could very well be something in our subconscious and even possibly related to Jung's theory of the "collective unconscious."

If, on the other hand, it is indeed a reality that is beyond our human perception as of yet, then the historical literature & experience in conjunction with the paradox inherent in the ETH suggests something entirely different than "space men."

Something that continues to outbox and outfox the short, short arms of science up to this point.

Gut --- Have you seen my perported [Space Alien Hiding Behind Fossil Rock,] on YouTube yet? Taken by me ---Fooftr27 --- back in the summer of 1972, on the Western Shore of the Chesapeake Bay at Calvert Cliffs, Maryland. The creature is located in the lower right hand corner of the photograph, with his face or helmet exposed [two eyes, nose and a smile of a Zen Buddha that has just achieved satori --- and his left leg and foot that is resting on a fossil rock that he is sitting on. I did not see the creature when I took the picture. I've tried various methods to try to have alien contact with the creature. This is one of my alien pictures that J. Allen Hynek trashed, before taking my pictures to his grave; or were just lost in the shuffle. So..feel free to comment --- if you are so inclined.

reply to post by The GUT


Thanks for getting my back Gut. I'd do the same for you... I think bluestreak just misunderstood me, I was only trying to make the point that it's easy to just go with whatever feels good or right, but we need to "test the spirits". They aren't all there to help us. I wasn't speaking to his or anyone else's experiences but I think you already understood that.

reply to post by Erno86

Erno, that is a pretty freaky pic, but it would be hard to see it as anything other than pareidolia. That's probably why Dr. Hynek decided that it didn't have much scientific value.

It would be hard to test I guess you'd say, right? Did you notice it when you took the pic? I've taken the opportunity to post it below.

Thank you for sharing it with us, Erno.

reply to post by The GUT


Gut --- No, I did not notice "it" when I took the pic. But if you were sitting on the Miocene fossil rock, just like the perported alien is --- you head would be jutting above and behind the Miocene fossil boulder, just like the alien's, and your left leg and foot would be resting diagionally on the fossil boulder that "it" is sitting on.

I waded about 150 feet out into the bay to take a picture of the Stonehenge looking megalith fossil/dirt boulders. Can you see the sunlight reflecting off the top of the aliens head or helmet? Can you see the two large dark round eyes?
Can you see the long nose, with an approx. 2" vertical [breathing?] slit coming up from the bottom of his nose? Can you see the Zen Buddha type of smile? Can you see his grayish left leg and foot?

Above and behind "it"....is a rectangular topped megalith fossil/dirt boulder. Six years later...I climbed up to sit behind that megalith. I turned my head to the right...and was shocked to see a carving of the same alien that I took a picture of. It even had the slit up the nose. It was carved by an unknown artist, but it could be a self portrait. It is my second video pic on YouTube titled: Petroglyph Carving of a Space Alien.

If you can put yourself in an space aliens state of mind --- and ask yourself --- If I had the capability of visiting Earth... where would I go? Your most probable answer at the top of the list would be Calvert Cliffs, Maryland. The space aliens have probably been visiting the place for at least 14,000 years. That is when the first local Indian tribes were possibly seeded by the aliens; [Alaskan/Siberian land bridge aside].

The place is loaded with fossils --- just waiting to be picked-up --- like giant great white shark teeth, crocodile teeth, baby whale bones, [it used to be a baby whale breeding ground during the Miocene Age --- that is when the first monkeys appeared on Earth,] It is located just south of Calvert Cilffs Nuclear Reactor; and just north of Patuxent Naval Air Research Test Center.

J. Allen Hynek...has been a debunker of UFO flaps, ever since he had been a member of Project Blue Book. In his later years he seemed to switch to the IDH theory. One year later...after Hynek passed away, I recieved a letter from his replacement at CUFOS. He replied..."that he read my letter that I sent to Hynek," that I sent along with my alien pictures, and he ask " could I send my alien picture's to him."[since the first batch of alien pictures were missing,] What happened to my original alien pictures that I sent to Hynek? Did he throw them in the trash? The secret is one that Hynek took to his grave.

If you look look at other parts of my space alien photograph --- you can see it is loaded with petroglyph's, even with the carving of a saucer shape on the face of cliff --- and a lighter type of dirt humanoid carving, on a darker type of dirt in the center of the photograph.

Hynek's conclusion --- about my alien photograph --- has led me to believe...that since his reputation was somewhat tainted, based on several UFO cases: like the Swamp Gas case --- was in all likelyhood ---- a classic UFO/Space Alien debunker of the highest order; till his death. No offense to you.

reply to post by Erno86

No, Erno, it doesn't upset me that you believe Hynek to have continued to be a debunking agent. Even though we have different opinions on the UFO issue, we also share an experience which seems in many ways to be of the same incredible phenomenon. I'll always have a bond with you for that very reason my friend!

It could be that Hynek remained an agent of disinfo, but I don't think so for a few reasons. One reason is Jacques Vallee's assertion that Dr. Hynek was very upset about being "rebuffed" in regards the so-called "Pentacle Memo" as briefly recounted below.

…Vallee brought the memo to Hynek's attention, who was rebuffed, when he asked Cross for an explanation. "Though the memo never received the impact Vallee thought it would have from a public point of view, the memo did have an important effect on both Hynek and Vallee; both realized that they had been pawns in a game which they never were able to control…
cyber-space-war.blogspot.com...

Another reason--in addition to the fact that Hynek publicly stated that he had become a believer and continued to investigate and publish--was his belief in, and long friendship with, Dorothy Izatt.

After a series of tests to verify the authenticity of this phenomenon, Dr. Allen Hynek (1910-1986), a renowned astronomer and UFO researcher, decided to endorse Dorothy Izatt’s films. We must consider that Dr. Hynek, together with Dr. Jacques Vallée, proposed that UFOs could be beings from another dimension instead of aliens, which would explain how they, “apparently”, defy the laws of physics. As to the strange light forms in Dorothy’s films, Hynek suggested they could be passages to the world where these beings lived and that they would open every now and then as a result of the dimensional portals these beings would use to get to our world.
thedivulgers.com...

Speaking of Dorothy Izatt, I believe her films lend some excellent credence to the dimensional concept. The experts that have testified to the validity of her films are pretty impressive and the phenomenon she captured, along with the "messages" she feels she receives, gives me the strong impression that she's experiencing something other than E.T. contact.


Back to your photos, I'd like to see them in higher quality to compare the alleged entity with the carving.

The reason being, if they do match to the degree you assert, then I would contend that your photos, as well as your ufo sighting, fall into the realm of "high strangeness" and might be more indicative of the features alluded to in the IDH.

For example: Why would an extraterrestrial take the time to hang around the area where the carving is? On the other hand, the IDH falls into the realm and explanations long associated with "trickster" qualities and folk who have repeated experiences.

Thanks for all your participation, Erno.

Well I switched from the ETH hypothesis after reading John Keel and Jaques Vallee in the early 80s. We still have very little hard evidence. I do not trust the Government but do not believe that they have captured UFOs or anything. The "high strangeness "cases are the key.

reply to post by The GUT


Gut --- I don't believe that the possible other-worlder "hangs" around Calvert Cliffs all the time. It probably makes visits from time to time; in order to collect fossils and too make hydrodynamic engineered experiments on the wave action effect on stone boulders on the shoreline; that uses driftwood levers to slightly move them back and forth when the wave hits the levers on the shoreline. The place is on private property which I have permission from the landowner to be on. The place is surrounded by deep forest beyond the cliff face, with a suitable level open field to land a saucer on; nearby.

Some people say... that a space alien close encounter will --- most likely ----be an alien who tries to hide behind something; in order to try to partially protect him or herself from a first encounter with an Earthling. My perported alien picture fits the bill; though I can truly say that it is not a hoax perpertrated by me, nor any of my friends. Still...I cannot prove a darn thing --- though I've made some significant attempts at trying to communicate with the alien --- like carving Welcome to Earth in the face of cliff, and carving Require Tachyons + Anti-Grav Black Holes, Stop 1999 AA Asteroid; on a dead tree that toppled over the top of the 100 foot high cliff in the same area.

My 1976 UFO sighting seemed like the other-worlder's were trying to seek me out. Either way...the Foofighter gave me one hell of a light show. I don't know why it is me.. that has to try to explain these mysteries from the skys to a forum like this; but I'm getting older now --- 61 --- and I feel the need to pass on my other-worlder experience's to other's.


Cheers,

Erno86

reply to post by Erno86


Erno,

Do you have any other images? I have looked at the video, and honestly nothing stands out to me. I'm not saying there is nothing there, but I don't see anything.

I certainly would not be in a rush to meet an "alien". I think there is a high probability it would not have my best interests as a priority.

reply to post by CalebRight14



You might have to go to my YouTube site, freeze the video, and magnify the lower right hand corner of the photograph. The creature might possibly be wearing a upside down U shaped helmet. He is sitting behind a large Miocene fossil boulder on the edge of the shoreline. You cannot see his whole body --- just his face or helmet and his left leg and foot. If you have more location problems --- go to UFO Casebook forum, and get on my thread titled: Photo Capture of a Space Alien/Robot??? Go to Wings of Crystal's post's --- who could not see the alien creature either --- but gives you a close-up of what I'am talking about.

I do have another photograph of what I believe is a laser holograph projected image of a dinosauroid humanoid, near the same exact spot of the helmeted alien; that I took approx. 1 minute before I took the picture of the helmeted alien. You cannot see the helmeted alien in that picture, because their might be a laser holograph image of a fossil boulder projected over where the helmeted alien should be. This, I'm sure...is one picture that The Gut would like to see, because it shows the biblical pictorial story of Jonah and the Whale in laser hologram imagery along with the dinosauroid humanoid. Since the dinosauroids reflect Christian bible story's in a majority Christian nation --- here in the United States ---- should show that they communicate Christian Bible principles, which might reflect that the dinosauroids might have Christian bible principles as well; which should give you less to fear about any peaceful invasion of other-worlder's on U.S. soil.

Peace,

Erno86

p.s.:If you look more closely...you might pick out a periscope sticking out of the sand in the center of the photograph.
Do I think that the property is a space alien starbase that might have a huge cave system inside the cliffs at the same location? Yes I do!!!

Originally posted by Erno86

Gut --- Have you seen my perported [Space Alien Hiding Behind Fossil Rock,] on YouTube yet? Taken by me ---Fooftr27 --- back in the summer of 1972, on the Western Shore of the Chesapeake Bay at Calvert Cliffs, Maryland. The creature is located in the lower right hand corner of the photograph, with his face or helmet exposed [two eyes, nose and a smile of a Zen Buddha that has just achieved satori --- and his left leg and foot that is resting on a fossil rock that he is sitting on. I did not see the creature when I took the picture. I've tried various methods to try to have alien contact with the creature. This is one of my alien pictures that J. Allen Hynek trashed, before taking my pictures to his grave; or were just lost in the shuffle. So..feel free to comment --- if you are so inclined.

fascinating i am sure The Gut would enjoy a link.

reply to post by RongoRongo



Space Alien Hiding Behind Fossil Rock

www.youtube.com...

The Gut, already posted it, but you'll get a clearer picture, if you go on You-Tube. Check out a possible self- portrait carving of the space alien --- which is my other picture --- titled: Petroglyph Carving of a Space Alien... which is about 15 feet above the alien's throne, on a large dirt/fossil stone megalith, when the picture was taken in 1978; 6 years after the first alien picture was taken at Calvert Cliffs.

Speculations abound...that the center for U.S. goverment investigations of UFO's, is located on the grounds of the Patuxent Naval Air Research Test Center; just south of Calvert Cliffs.

Many thanks...for your help Gut.

Cheers,

Erno86

reply to post by The GUT


The way I understand it, there are different ways to interpret "multi-dimensional" beings.

I've been categorizing it as such:

One planar dimension is the current plane. The current trending state of the local visible Universe. Thereby, any beings originating from a planet or other body in this current visible universe is of this 'dimension'.

The next would be beings that may be originally from this dimension, but gained the ability to physically displace themselves within time space. Say, a first degree would be a person moving across a planet, 5th degree would be creating a warp drive to get to another solar system quickly, and the 10th degree (which coincides with the next category) is a being that can permeate the 'current plane' boundaries of time space, ie: full time travel, or cognitive time travel (seeing the future, past, etc.)

The final category, with a Universe-centric point of view, would be beings that come from any other plane of existence, either in an entirely separate Universal 'bubble' so-to-speak, or any overlapping anti-dimension coinciding at some differentiated rate to that of our own universe. Beings from these I would consider inter-dimensional if they could appear here physically or luminously, and have some kind of affect (physical and or non physical).


My only qualms with all of this multi-dimensional theory, is that the level of complexity and diversity just within this one Universe we are aware of could give rise to plenty of beings/forces that would essentially be deemed as multi or inter dimensional.

Pondering now...

Originally posted by Soloro
reply to post by The GUT

 

...My only qualms with all of this multi-dimensional theory, is that the level of complexity and diversity just within this one Universe we are aware of could give rise to plenty of beings/forces that would essentially be deemed as multi or inter dimensional.

Pondering now...

Seeing as how we haven't come close to deciphering the complexities of our existence, I imagine the mechanics of the answer is fairly complex.

Welcome aboard the good ship Discussion, mate.