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Do western people have the right to complain about Muslim people settling in their countries?

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posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 08:08 PM
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I am a British citizen, though I consider myself be Welsh (and I’m also Christian). In recent years, I have seen many people being angry with the government for letting more and more immigrants from the Middle East to come and live in the UK. And this is obviously the same in other western countries such as the US. As an example when a new Mosque was under planning to be constructed near Ground Zero, this caused quite a lot of controversy in the media not just in the US, but also in many other countries.

In almost any news article about crimes where Muslim people are involved in the incident, I often see racist remarks about the incident or event. Such as:

• “Why do we keep letting them come and live here if they bring their living conditions here?”
• “It’s only a matter of time when my children will be forced to read the Qur’an.”
• “Should I start buying thobes for my sons now?”

I’ve seen these comments on the Daily Mail newspaper website. Sometimes they will get thumbs down, but usually they get thumbs up. So this does suggest in a way that many British (mostly English) people are afraid of what could happen in future generation, which has lead to conspiracies and predictions the Islamization of Western counties.

Now back to the point of this thread, do people seriously have the right to complain about Muslim people settling in their countries, especially English people? Because I don’t see it that different to what their ancestors did to many other countries.

What reason do you believe that Welsh and Scottish people dislike England? Is it because they get far more global recognition? No, guess again, it actually goes back centuries ago!

Here’s a fun fact for some of you who didn’t know, the land of what we call Great Britain today used to belong to group of tribes called the Celts. They spoke an ancient Celtic language, which has subdivided to many other languages by now – Gaelic, Scottish, Cornish, Welsh and more!

They lived in these:



And then came the Romans, to invade the land that belonged to the peaceful Celts. I was taught and made clear that the ancestors of the English people came and took our land, killed Celtic men and then rape their wives. The Romans basically tried to erase us from existence, and then claim the land to feed their greed.

In the late 19th century, back when the English realized that Welsh was still spoken by 90% of the people living in Wales, they devised a punishment system to be used in Welsh schools to dissuade children from speaking Welsh. Children would have to wear a piece of wood around their neck with letters ‘W.N.’ which obviously meant ‘Welsh Not’. We were forced to adapt to English culture. We could not complain, we were powerless at the time.



How would you feel if Muslim people imposed this punishment on your children? I wouldn't like seeing that happening to anyone's children.

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

Today, languages such as Cornish and Gaelic are almost dead because of these sort of selfish actions undertaken by the English. Schools in Wales today are forced to follow the National Curriculum that completely ignores what England has done in the past.

England is taught their history in schools, and most of them forget it. Wales is told their history through many family generations. We will never forget what really happened to us all those years back.

I know that England have changed over the years, but they still to this day treat Wales as mud under their feet, probably unknowingly. Many villages were drowned in Wales in order for reservoirs to be built to supply England with water, free of charge of course…

Source: news.bbc.co.uk...

Don’t take me wrong now; I have many good English friends. I have many friends who are English, and I enjoy speaking the language on a daily basis. But to be honest, I wouldn’t really miss the language once it's gone, I would just say “serves England right for what they have actually done themselves in their past”.

edit on 14-7-2012 by cllj7 because: spacing paragraphs out



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posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 08:20 PM
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I live just a few miles from the oldest Mosque in the U.K. The area around it, Maybury, is so Islamic, that my friend and his family had to leave the area after they decided they didn't want a white british family to live in their area. And by this, I mean that they at first sent letters, then threatening letters, and then bricks through the window.

The fact that England. has a national religion (The Church of England), yet there are parts of this country where Sharia Law is enforced that are totally against out own laws is a joke.

Also, regardless of what tribe lived here in the isles before the 500 years of invasion from other tribes, being British is down to out culture we created over the last 1000 years. Most nations have at some point had another tribes genes inserted into them, I.E The Spanish and the Moors.


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edit on 14-7-2012 by nostromo85 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by cllj7
 


I think we might have a right to complain after we remove the western enforced financial system from their country's which has caused most of the problems that bring them to our paradise. Remember our paradise is only maintainable by having half the worlds population living in crippling poverty.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 08:35 PM
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The question i have is why people would want to move from the areas in question to settle in England.
Whats the attraction,The weather isnt exactly nice ,the cost of living is high and its full of people who dont want you there. ?



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by 12voltz
The question i have is why people would want to move from the areas in question to settle in England.
Whats the attraction,The weather isnt exactly nice ,the cost of living is high and its full of people who dont want you there. ?

Western countries for the 3rd world are like what tax havens are for the rich.
The entire world operates under a financial system which is western biased, subsequently the west enforces this on almost every country around the world.
If they do not collect western fiscal denominations, stipulated by bankers they and their family starve to death.

The collection of such denominations is much easier in the west because as I said before, the system is western biased.

Have you ever seriously compared what Britain is compared to majority of other countries in the world? I can assure you that if you were from somewhere unlucky enough to be strangled by the western financial system, the weather would be your last concern.

All I ask is that you try and put yourself in other peoples shoes. If you do not feel compassion you are not doing it right or you are not well versed in what these people really go through in every day life.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 08:41 PM
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Off course people have aright to complain(protest) that is whats so great about the system we developed over the centuries.

The problem is the lack of response protesters get. It makes People who are genuinely concerned about there ecountry feel isolated. Then when we have racist groups like the EDL come in and feed on those feelings. Promoting ignorance and hate. To try and further there agenda.
Evidence to this is, the rising support and politically victories gained from the BNP party.

Sadly though it seems the media(the Government mouthpiece) focus more on these radical groups and use it as a way to debase the real issues that are a concern to many.

Even though we can't ignore our shared responsibility, it still does not and should not devalue the underlining issue that bad immigration policies and the seemingly lack of enforcement to combat the illegal immigration problem is causing big problems for the UK and the longer it goes on the more resentment and growing radical nationalism will continue and eventually erupt in some horrible display of violence.
edit on 14-7-2012 by Bixxi3 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by 12voltz
The question i have is why people would want to move from the areas in question to settle in England.
Whats the attraction,The weather isnt exactly nice ,the cost of living is high and its full of people who dont want you there. ?


Because you can live for free.

I think Western people do have a right to complain if it interferes with their values and culture. I don't believe however we shouldn't let them bring their own cultures in too, just not be allowed to enforce it into law and everyday norm which eradicates our heritage as Brits/Welsh/Scot/Irish, It's our identity.

I'm British born (Also Christian) and moved to an Islamic country where i find the Muslim population to be quite pleasant. I enjoy living here, i feel safe and i have many Islamic/Christian friends and we all share the same views. Don't try to enforce beliefs on other people that are not your native people, Also all this talk about "It's racist to say things against Muslims/Christians" is BS What race is Islam and Christianity?

Nice debate topic.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 08:45 PM
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I have nothing against Muslims, nothing really against their religion either.

If you move to a different culture, try to assimilate to that culture. Speak the language and be respectful of our laws - that is all we ask. When you refuse to do so, or try to actively go against that culture, don't be shocked when people tend to hate your guts.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 08:47 PM
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I think people have a right to complain about any Immigrant that comes to the USA or goes to any country that is NOT native to them and Complains about said country, why the hell can't they either stay home or go somewhere that they LIKE.

When I heard stories of my parents time in europe, (10 yrs), I never heard one complaint, in fact my Mom told me she had the time of her life and wouldn't trade that it for anything.


I would love to visit another country, and stay for a while to learn thier culture and language.


And most of all, I would NOT go somewhere just so I could complain and whine and try to change the rules of that country just to suit myself.


The USA should issue Visa's to people that come here, ""and then enforce the rules"", send them back to where they came from when thier time is up, especially if they complain the whole time they are visiting.




Peace



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by MidnightTide
I have nothing against Muslims, nothing really against their religion either.

If you move to a different culture, try to assimilate to that culture. Speak the language and be respectful of our laws - that is all we ask. When you refuse to do so, or try to actively go against that culture, don't be shocked when people tend to hate your guts.


Very well put MidnightTide

I think that's the biggest problem right now is the refusal to adapt. Instead wanting to force your laws on people and if they refuse threaten them with violence.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by MidnightTide
 


it goes both ways don,t u think?



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by MidnightTide
 


Well that's happening in Wales, a lot of communities are being destroyed on the West coast of Wales due to people who aren't Welsh buying cottages, and then convert them into holiday homes where they live for no more than a month a year. Then some of them actually come and live there permanently, and buy local pubs, shops and restaurants and give them an English name so they can be pronounced. They don't even bother learn the history of the area or the language, and send their children to English school. And this is what provoked the 'Meibion Glyndwr' gang that started over 30 years ago to burn down holiday homes in Wales. 'Meibion Glyndwr' translates to 'sons of Glyndwr'. Owain Glyndwr was a Welsh ruler and the last native Welshman to hold the title Prince of Wales which dates back to the 1400s when England finally conquered Wales. That's how long it took for England to conquer Wales, and that's why so many castles were built in Wales. I even lived less half a mile from one.

news.bbc.co.uk...
edit on 14-7-2012 by cllj7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by cllj7
reply to post by MidnightTide
 


Well that's happening in Wales, a lot of communities are being destroyed on the West coast of Wales due to people who aren't Welsh buying cottages, and then convert them into holiday homes where they live for no more than a month a year. Then some of them actually come and live there permanently, and buy local pubs, shops and restaurants and give them an English name so they can be pronounced. They don't even bother learn the history of the area or the language, and send their children to English school. And this is what provoked the 'Meibion Glyndwr' gang that started over 30 years ago to burn down holiday homes in Wales. 'Meibion Glyndwr' translates to 'sons of Glyndwr'. Owain Glyndwr was a Welsh ruler and the last native Welshman to hold the title Prince of Wales which dates back to the 1400s when England finally conquered Wales. That's how long it took for England to conquer Wales, and that's why so many castles were built in Wales. I even lived less half a mile from one.

So you are complaining about development when they have had to put up with complete social destruction?



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 09:13 PM
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Typically, if you go somewhere, whether that's Japan, China, Russia, Greece, Egypt, Australia, Thailand, Germany, Mexico, USA, Argentina, or anywhere on the planet where the culture is different or foreign to your own, there's a certain amount of assimilation that's expected as a GUEST, regardless of whether you're visiting, or taking up permanent residence.

In dominate Islamic regions, you behave a certain way and are expected to do such.
In Asian regions, there's another way to act depending where you are in greater Asia.
In Western countries, the very same should be expected as a matter of politeness.

Where all this becomes a problem, however, is where one culture that is tolerant of diversity meets with a culture that is strict, insulated, and intolerant.
You then get enclaves of semi-nationalized regions springing up where anyone not 'belonging' to that particular heritage gets anything from funny looks, to threats, and even hostile physical treatment.

Every culture should be respected, but, it should never go so far where intolerance or prejudice on any level should be accepted.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by cllj7
 


The issue in wales not even to close to how black and white of issue you paint it to be.

The majority of welsh are moving out of the country because of the lack of opportunity there.
I think you need to start blaming the welsh labour party and there policies to just ask for a blank cheque from london and then accept no responsibility over any of the issues facing. You can't want more autonomy and not accept the added responsibility.

Having your cake and eating i think is the phrase :/
I guess it is just easier to blame the english then to actually do anything. I
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posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 09:17 PM
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Oh, how refreshing, westerners complaining about and or feeling guilty about western civilisation..

Let's just eradicate ourselves by cultural genocide because of what our ancestors did hundreds of years ago, let's blame ourselves for what the luciferian control system does, let's celebrate diversity by mingling until we all look the same..

I also despise westerners but not for the same reasons.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 09:20 PM
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Wow... I think FutureThinker pretty well summed up 90% of what I would have wanted to say on this. I'd just add this for my thoughts....

They come to our nation, some of them, and they whine and moan and groan that we must change substantial things to accommodate them. While in the nations they came from, we wouldn't be allowed out of Customs if our passport shows a stamp from other free nations, as just one example. Dare to bring a Bible? Well... Just don't.
Freedom of Expression works fine to the point someone removes your head with a small dull knife. Great folks in a few of those nations.
Comparing to us then? Well.. Complaining about what again??

It's very fair to say America was made by immigrants but it's equally fair to note the immigrant rushes of the late 1800's and early 20th were people aspiring to assimilate and become one with the nation they chose to stake their futures in. They didn't come here to make New Rome or New Dublin. I don't personally care for immigrants of ANY origin who aren't interested in assimilating to our culture after they've come here, if they are here for more than a student or tourist visa.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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Yes they do have the right its called freedom of speech.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

They come to our nation, some of them, and they whine and moan and groan that we must change substantial things to accommodate them.


Are they not allowed to moan and groan just like the rest of us?
I always been proud to be English and one of the reasons, is how English having a good moan is.

They come here to escape oppression and have a good life. yet it would seem that once they get here they shouldn't expect the same freedoms we have.


Also to the OP can i see some proof for sharia law? Because thats a load ofcrap. It has never and will never be legally accepted here.

The majority experiences i've have with Indians and Pakistanis is that there just like us. Some are cocks some are ignorant but most just want whats best for there family.
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posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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Do I have a right to complain if somebody comes into my home country and refuses to adapt to my culture? My respect for your culture stops where yours ends for mine.

If you move to a Western country, learn to adapt to your new home. I have no problem if you want to keep your hijabs and your religion and your dietary customs.

What I do have a problem with is when you start trying to cordon of entire sections of the city and apply your laws to that section. What I do have a problem with is when you try to start screaming about cultural sensitivity through one side of your mouth and beating up random people on the streets the next just because they have a beer in your neighborhood.

I have a right to complain because these people moved to a Western country with Western culture and Western laws; I didn't drag them here kicking and screaming. Live by our laws and adapt to our cultural norms or get out.




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