Is Lucifer our Friend?

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posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by CthulhuMythos
 




However, I do find it hard to believe there is a wonderful loving great god up there, who allows so much death, pain and harm, especially to innocent children and good people but leaves a lot of bad harmful people to go around ruining things for the rest of us.


Father will not let this go on for much longer. At times, he will step back and see how man does on his own. But, moving forward, he will be taking a more active role. All will experience death, but it is man who puts the weight on the how.

Man is here experiencing life in a vessel, just like an astronaut experiences space, in a spacesuit. When death comes, you are just shedding the vessel or earthly garments, but you still continue on living.

If no evil was present, how could you appreciate the good without the bad?




posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


Nope, I wasn't addressed by any name or title. It was more like getting answers to my questions even before I was finished asking them. I know it was God, because I didn't like some of the answers, and I disagreed with them, and I even argued with them, and there were things I could not possibly have known on my own, but each rebuttal was met with an instant understanding of some other angle or concept. God made me understand the answers even when I disagreed with them. It wasn't a voice, it was just knowledge in my own mind that God unlocked for me, or placed there for me.

I also had a scary experience with God while I knelt at an altar, in a completely dark room, just after midnight on one of my worst nights. Not a spot of light anywhere, and I was arguing, and blaspheming, and asking for a sign, and next thing I knew the floor rolled toward me like a wave in the ocean, and it threw me to my feet, and instinctively I turned to run, but then my consciousness told me I was being stupid and overreacting, so I turned back toward the altar, and when I did, a black wall of just heavy thickness struck me and took my breath away and shoved me on to the door. I stepped outside, and panicked for a second or two, and then I decided I had come there for God's attention, and now that I had it, I wasn't giving up that easy, and I walked back into the room, and I knelt again, and I thanked God for the opportunity to have this discussion, and I asked my questions more respectfully, and I got my answers.

For the record, this came at a time when my whole extended family was praying for a miracle to save my infant son, that was struggling for life for many months, and had a very bad prognosis, and the doctors said he would live a short painful life, and never walk or talk, but I refused to accept that, and I got my miracle! My son is now 4 years old, fully recovered, caught up with his classmates, advanced in language skills, and he is entering pre-K this year. No meds, no nothing. God didn't do it though.

God's answer to me was "he asked for it." That was what triggered my anger. How could he have asked for all that struggling? But, God convinced me that is exactly what happened, and if I wanted a miracle, I had to do it myself, and I did. I found the best doctor in the nation, I got meds from Europe, I got daily therapy sessions for him, I forced his little brain to develop the synapses it needed, I held his screaming, writhing little body while the nurses tried to draw blood from his little 5lb frame, I held his tiny hand while they blasted his eyes with strobe lights, and ran EEG's on him for hours every week. I quit my job, and got a different job to allow me more time, I gave up my truck, and my home, and moved in with family so my wife could stop working and dedicate time to helping him. He recovered, not because God made it happen, but because God responded to my prayers by knocking me to my feet and giving me the bitter truth, and convincing me that I didn't have to accept the words of so-called experts, and also convincing me that Jasper wanted this experience, he wanted to overcome it, and he wanted everything to come to him in this difficult manner, he needed this.

So, together, we experienced it, and we got through it, and we got our miracle, and I know God like never before, and like some will never get to know God. I no longer fear God, but I respect it, and I realize it is everywhere, all the time, and it wants the best for us, but sometimes that includes more struggle and heartache than many can handle, but we can't give up, if we fail, we just have to try again and again, in this lifetime or the next. Eventually we all evolve to become one with God, or we give up and our little piece of the god-spirit eventually dies. God doesn't want that, God wants us to succeed, but we have to do it ourselves. (Everytime I said "I," it really should have been "we" because my wife was there doing miraculous things as well.)
edit on 8-7-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 




Nope, I wasn't addressed by any name or title. It was more like getting answers to my questions even before I was finished asking them. I know it was God, because I didn't like some of the answers, and I disagreed with them, and I even argued with them, and there were things I could not possibly have known on my own, but each rebuttal was met with an instant understanding of some other angle or concept. God made me understand the answers even when I disagreed with them. It wasn't a voice, it was just knowledge in my own mind that God unlocked for me, or placed there for me.


I see, then you spoke in a different way. I assumed you meant out loud. Yes, many are here who have certain memories locked. Much like, putting information into a folder, locked inside a filing cabinet. Father will unlock these at certain times, when you have reached a measure that he has set forth.



and I thanked God for the opportunity to have this discussion, and I asked my questions more respectfully, and I got my answers.


He doesn't take kindly to disrespectful tones, as I have learned when taken back above.



God's answer to me was "he asked for it." That was what triggered my anger. How could he have asked for all that struggling?


Yes, many don't understand, that even small children speak to God and have an intelligence of that as grown men, it's just not shown on the outside. Many ask for things, so that they may learn. Some ask for it at a young age, so they can endure it now, and then get it over with, as to not hinder them later on in life.



So, together, we experienced it, and we got through it, and we got our miracle, and I know God like never before, and like some will never get to know God.


Many have to be brought down in their own way, to come back to him. This brings me joy to see this.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


OOOPS


Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.


So yes it does speak of eternal torture/damnation

link

Just sayin

Semper
edit on 7/8/2012 by semperfortis because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 




So yes it does speak of eternal torture/damnation


Yes, it will be eternal. But, it will not be torture, as many have claimed this. The second death is the killing of the soul/spirit. The first death is the killing of the body. The only one it speaks of in burning forever, is the beast and the false prophet, not man.



And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.




Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.




Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things.




And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever
edit on 8-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Like the video I posted on the first page says, you are one of the Devil's boys... why would he torture you for eternity?



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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I see it as eternal death. We have infinite opportunities to evolve on a spiritual level, and God is rooting for us, but when we stop trying to evolve, or we start to devolve, then our spirit starts to die, and eventually our very soul dies. This is literally a piece of God dying with us, and God doesn't want that, but it is the literal "damnation." A spiritual death. The suffering all happens before that damnation, the suffering is there to help us, but some just don't make it.

Just as people say the opposite of love is indifference, the opposite of godness is damnation. Either our spirit evolves to join Gods, or it ceases to exist. Culling the weeds, so the garden can thrive. Removing the cancerous spirits, so the whole embodiment of God can be healthier and more complete. Something like that.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


Allow me to repeat


undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.


What would you call punishment of eternal fire? Fun?


into the eternal fire


Again.. Not fun.. Torture


suffer the punishment of eternal destruction


Punishment-Eternal-Destruction

hmmmmmm

Semper



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


Do you think that a spirit is harmed by fire? Surely, a body can't be burned eternally. It clearly says, the second death. (The killing of the soul)

When the writers wrote about the eternal fire, they assumed, and what you have are assumptions of others about what will take place. I had to use your quotes to convey, that it does not state eternal torture. What you have written is equating eternal fire with torture, much like the writers of the bible have done.

What you have done, validates why we have so many errors in the bible, and religion as a whole.
edit on 8-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


All from an interpretation of an interpretation of an incomplete collection of books written millenia ago, from verbal stories that were repeats of previous verbal stories.

I understand that many Christians take that book as infallible, but to me it is just one of many stories meant to help us gain a little more understanding of God. It is a book written by men, it isn't infallible.

You're making the point that the Bible does mention torture and hell, when many people these days claim it doesn't mention such things, but either way, it is just one source, it isn't necessarily the truth.

I have a tattoo of Job 16:9 on my back, and the interpretation I chose to use says my enemy gnasheth upon me with his teeth, but other versions say God gnasheth upon me, and still other sources say the verse was written in such a way that God is the enemy of Job, so both interpretations are correct. Interpretation goes a long way, the NIV doesn't agree with the KJV, and in many cases there is no literal translation, so we are left with just interpretation.

It's just a book.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
So yes it does speak of eternal torture/damnation


That's a mistranslation apparently :


Organized religion continued this fantasy by redefining Sheol and Hades as a place of
eternal indescribable torture. The eternal part was accomplished by mistranslating the
Greek word aion. Aion (Strong #'s 165 & 166) is correctly translate as `to the end of the
age', rather than eternal or forever. However nasty Sheol or Hades may be it is
temporal, not eternal.


newlifechurchhome.com...

Two other things I think could be the case : God is actually Lucifer. As in the Gnostic false God, but people have been duped into believing in God, and this is what Jesus tried to tell people.

Secondly that's it's a huge mess because so many people think of a singular and male God. Why do people always say He? What about the Goddess temples that Constantine destroyed? Is it the convenient case of "They were Demon Goddesses"?


314 Immediately after its full legalisation, the Christian Church attacks the Gentiles: The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of Goddess Artemis.

324 Emperor Constantine declares Christianism as the only official Religion of the Roman Empire. In Dydima, Minor Asia, he sacks the Oracle of the God Apollo and tortures the pagan priests to death. He also evicts all the Gentiles from Mt. Athos and destroys all the local Hellenic Temples.

326 Emperor Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys the Temple of the God Asclepius in Aigeai of Cilicia and many Temples of the Goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenice, Baalbek, etc.

330 Emperor Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the pagan Temples of Greece to decorate Nova Roma (Constantinople), the new capital of his Empire.

335 Emperor Constantine sacks many pagan Temples of Minor Asia and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of "all magicians and soothsayers". Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatrus.

341 Emperor Flavius Julius Constantius persecutes "all the soothsayers and the Hellenists". Many Gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned or executed.


www.stopthereligiousright.org...

Sorry but I can't support any of that. You can believe what you want, but killing and destroying other beliefs is just wrong. Or is it? Do people deserved to be killed for having other beliefs? Or is that just mistakes from the past?

What about the Aeons of the Gnostics? The Aeon Sophia? Maybe anything related to her was conveniently destroyed too? To create a massive imbalance in our world and put down the feminine side, because without it the collective mindset will be basically broken in half?

By the way I'm not confused about what I do. I meditate. It's hard, it takes a lot of effort and patience, but I gradually feel closer to the source. It's what a lot of Christains believe that confuses me. I still see Jesus and Lucifer as equals too. One might be deluded and the other not, one weaker than the other, less intelligent, etc, but only in the current state. Still equal in the end. I don't feel like judging Lucifer and I hope I never do.


Originally posted by Deetermined
Look back at history and tell me that you honestly believe that this is a power struggle that's ever going to end until one eradicates the other entirely.


You can't "eradicate something entirely." Things only transform, they're not eradicated. So maybe Lucifer's false ideas and mindset could be transformed until he/she returns to God/dess, but not eradicated.

Another thing : if God/dess is all loving and all forgiving, he/she wouldn't try to "eradicate" any being. It just wouldn't happen.
edit on 8-7-2012 by robhines because: added/typos



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by jhill76
 


Allow me to repeat




And allow me to repeat
"Like the video I posted on the first page says, you are one of the Devil's boys... why would he torture you for eternity?"



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by Catalyst317
 


I can't speak for you, but I am one of Christs Boys...

I have given my soul to the Lord Jesus Christ and I am forgiven of all my sins, now and forever.. He died so that I could accept his salvation

So maybe you are "one of satans boys".. But you have me completely wrong

Semper



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


I never said I was one way or another.... but stop avoiding the question

and I never said anything about you "to have you wrong".
edit on 8-7-2012 by Catalyst317 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by robhines
 


Thats cool, ive actually wondered if jehovah might be the evil one. He wanted us to be sheeple. Satan wanted us to be free thinkers.

The whole thing sounds a lot like roman mythology as well. Prometheus stole fire from the gods and gavr it to prople. Lucifer/satan stole knowledge from jehovah and gave it to mere mortals. Supposedly life was perfect before the falll of man, but was it really the rise of man? Also, the tree of knowledge of good and evil is essentially pandoras box. You can do a lot of great things with knowledge, also a lot of bad things. Pandoras box also contained hope. You dont need hope without evil, and they knew pandora would open her box, so.....

Why did jehovah put the tree there if it wasnt to be eaten from? Why did pandora even have the box?

I think both myths basically explain the rise of duality. Which is not a bad thing...even though it sucks...



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by phroziac
 




Why did jehovah put the tree there if it wasnt to be eaten from?


To show the others above, that man will fall into temptation.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Several things

1. It is all about faith
2. The translation has held up under the most strict scrutiny of any book ever written
3. Once you read it, it all makes sense

People have spent their entire lives trying to discredit this book... Never happened yet and I'm guessing it wont here on ATS

Semper



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by phroziac
 




Why did jehovah put the tree there if it wasnt to be eaten from?


To show the others above, that man will fall into temptation.

So it was the worlds first false flag. He wanted man to fall into temptation.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by phroziac

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by phroziac
 




Why did jehovah put the tree there if it wasnt to be eaten from?


To show the others above, that man will fall into temptation.

So it was the worlds first false flag. He wanted man to fall into temptation.


No, he knew it was going to happen. Others above, didn't think it could happen. He didn't want this, but he knew it would happen because he seen it. But, even when God tells the others what will happen, they still try to keep hope that it won't, if that makes sense.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


Deuteronomy 23. Whats up with the racism? And whats wrong with a man whose peener is missing? And what does burying your poop have to do with god? ok you can ignore the last one. But this chapter truly strikes me as being written by an evil person, not god





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