Obamacare amounts to slavery...

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posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by Masterjaden
 


OK, you ready?


Originally posted by Masterjaden
I don't understand how ANYONE can claim that a service provided by another is a right... That would infer that you have the right to force someone to work for you. That is THE definition of slavery.


Voting is a Right in the US. Although the GOP is trying to change that, but different topic.

So when someone goes to vote, they are assisted or supported by the people who are working the polling place... getting the ballot, getting it recorded, etc.

So every time someone votes, according to you, they are enforcing slavery on the part of the people working the voting place.




posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by Masterjaden
I came upon an interesting thought while discussing Obamacare in another forum I frequent where people were trying to claim that healthcare is a right...

I don't understand how ANYONE can claim that a service provided by another is a right... That would infer that you have the right to force someone to work for you. That is THE definition of slavery.

Anyone who advocates that healthcare is a right, advocates for slavery.

The hypocratic oath does not infer forced servitude. It is a man's personal honor to keep their word. The Doctor still must have the choice whether to do so or not. Non action on the part of the doctor does NOT amount to murder.

Jaden
edit on 1-7-2012 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)


Public school teachers are forced to educate every child that is in their class
Police is forced to try to solve any crime that comes to their attention.
Judges are forced to judge any case that comes before their bench.
Are they all slaves too?



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:26 AM
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Since the right to bear arms is a right in America any person working in the arms business is a slave would be analogous to ron pauls doctors getting pulled out of bed at gunpoint in that if you're a gunsmith you can be dragged out of bed and expected to fix a firearm just the same as a doctor can be expected to treat a patient?



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by Masterjaden
 


Well in the UK you do have a right as everyone pays tax for a National Health Service (NHS). Thank # I don't have to put up with people like you as pretty much everyone in the UK understands the logic of this system, for the good of society as a whole. By the way Obamacare seems pretty useless to me as it does not advance toward this kind of system, just enriches the insurance industry and doctors.

I can imagine you have some kind of insurance plan (courtesy of your parents) so you're alrite Jack. Everyone else can go die right?

Scum.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:29 AM
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Oh dear... these kind of topics make me smirk. Free healthcare is a right, free higher level education is a right, access to internet is a right. Life is good.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by skepticconwatcher
reply to post by Masterjaden
 


As a descendant of Indigenous American peoples, American Slave MASTERS and American Slaves , I find your casual use of that term highly offensive.

And flawed.




I am a descendant of Native Americans as well, so I find your piggy backing on the suffering of our ancestors to make your point highly offensive as well...

Jaden



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by Masterjaden
 


Well in the UK you do have a right as everyone pays tax for a National Health Service (NHS). Thank # I don't have to put up with people like you as pretty much everyone in the UK understands the logic of this system, for the good of society as a whole. By the way Obamacare seems pretty useless to me as it does not advance toward this kind of system, just enriches the insurance industry and doctors.

I can imagine you have some kind of insurance plan (courtesy of your parents) so you're alrite Jack. Everyone else can go die right?

Scum.




Even in the UK you DON'T have a right. There is no fundamental right to healthcare. In the UK, and any other socialized country, you have a forced ability to receive healthcare, you still don't have a right.

Jaden



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by Maxatoria
Since the right to bear arms is a right in America any person working in the arms business is a slave would be analogous to ron pauls doctors getting pulled out of bed at gunpoint in that if you're a gunsmith you can be dragged out of bed and expected to fix a firearm just the same as a doctor can be expected to treat a patient?


No because they receive compensation for their services. I can pay for their services or I can go without arms, they are not forced to provide me with a gun. You do have the right to seek out healthcare, but not to force people to give it to you.

Jaden



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by Masterjaden
 


The dumbest Thread award goes to.........

I guess the Postman is a slave, he brings you your mail.

I guess the Server at Burger King is a slave, he brings you your food.

I guess the Doctor is a slave , he brings you Medical Aid.

Opps, too late , the are all slaves already.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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I would not go far to call it slavery. What this does is give the left to dictate how we should live our lives, like what you see up in San Francisco and in New York city. That is only the beginning if the president gets re elected it will only get worse. I think that it will be the end of the united states. He will be like Nero playing the fiddle as Rome burns



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
reply to post by Masterjaden
 


OK, you ready?


Originally posted by Masterjaden
I don't understand how ANYONE can claim that a service provided by another is a right... That would infer that you have the right to force someone to work for you. That is THE definition of slavery.


Voting is a Right in the US. Although the GOP is trying to change that, but different topic.

So when someone goes to vote, they are assisted or supported by the people who are working the polling place... getting the ballot, getting it recorded, etc.

So every time someone votes, according to you, they are enforcing slavery on the part of the people working the voting place.


Again, those people are volunteering to provide those services, they are not being forced to provide them at the point of a gun.

Starting to get the picture at this point yet, that's rhetorical, people like you are not likely to EVER get the picture because you believe you are entitled to something...

You are entitled to nothing, but what your labors and wits can provide you.

Jaden



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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In a way we are all missing the point. Health care should be focused on preventive measures. Why is it always after something happens that we feel compelled to do something about it? Why doesn't health care cover vitamins and supplements, or a gym membership? what about healthy organic foods?

As long as people continue to live unhealthy lifestyles their is going to be a cost. Those who are able should take action to be healthy, eat the right foods, and get regular exercise. This will help take some of the burden off of society. As well taking your health into your own hands is empowering.

We are a disabled society. This is for many reasons so pick one. Whether because of laziness or some grand conspiracy or simply because the current system is just not in favor of healthy empowered people. Yes everyone indeed deserves help if they need it. No patient should be turned down. Its is always the bottom line though which is $$$money$$$.

This is were we get into a moral and ethical situation. Is it ethical to deny treatment because of finical reasons? What about big pharma getting pimped by doctors because of money? Also who should pick up the tab, and is making what should be a common wealth to society which is medical care and the advancement of humanity a business?

The current paradigm is not in favor of humanity or what is morally and ethically right. I am not against capitalism but when money give people the incentive to do the wrong thing or not do what is right because of a momentary incentive it makes one wonder how humane we really are.

So whats got to happen? People who are able need to take charge of their own health. People need to get informed. Living a healthy lifestyle is a full-time job. It goes much further than oneself. What is good for the planet is good for us. Start growing your own food. Learn about permaculture. Share what you can with others. It goes right back down to each individuals moral code and ethics. Each person who is living the change is one more person for the change. We cannot ask for change and do nothing on a personal level and expect for a change in our favor.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by EvilSadamClone
 


So taxation is theft?

YES wage tax is theft (income tax is the same thing and just with a pretty name). Income tax goes against everything the damn forefather's fought for.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by Masterjaden
 


The dumbest Thread award goes to.........

I guess the Postman is a slave, he brings you your mail.

I guess the Server at Burger King is a slave, he brings you your food.

I guess the Doctor is a slave , he brings you Medical Aid.

Opps, too late , the are all slaves already.


The postman is not asked on some days to provide the service for free... The burger king employee is not forced to provide you the service for free.

It is not your right to receive mail, you must pay for it, it is not your right to eat at burger king, you must pay for it and they have the right to refuse service, You and others are MAKING the doctor a slave...

Because you are trying to force them to take care of you without providing just compensation as the market requires.

Jaden



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by Masterjaden

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by Masterjaden
 


The dumbest Thread award goes to.........

I guess the Postman is a slave, he brings you your mail.

I guess the Server at Burger King is a slave, he brings you your food.

I guess the Doctor is a slave , he brings you Medical Aid.

Opps, too late , the are all slaves already.


The postman is not asked on some days to provide the service for free... The burger king employee is not forced to provide you the service for free.

It is not your right to receive mail, you must pay for it, it is not your right to eat at burger king, you must pay for it and they have the right to refuse service, You and others are MAKING the doctor a slave...

Because you are trying to force them to take care of you without providing just compensation as the market requires.

Jaden


So, the 9 Supremes should just have said "I don't want to judge on your stupid healthcare law" and go away?
Judges, my friend.
Do you have a right to access a judge? Yes. Is the judge a slave?



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:45 AM
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our collective actions contribute both negatively and positively to the quality of life of everyone else,


But conservatives want to take all of the positives while pretending they owe nothing for the negatives.

Whenever you live in a society there are rules or responsibilities imposed on you by your society in order for that society to function or survive.

If you truly don't want to contribute anything to your fellow citizens you should move to the Alaskan outback or the Sahara desert and support yourself without any help from anyone else, then you won't have any obligations other than survival.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by GareyGaia
In a way we are all missing the point. Health care should be focused on preventive measures. Why is it always after something happens that we feel compelled to do something about it? Why doesn't health care cover vitamins and supplements, or a gym membership? what about healthy organic foods?

As long as people continue to live unhealthy lifestyles their is going to be a cost. Those who are able should take action to be healthy, eat the right foods, and get regular exercise. This will help take some of the burden off of society. As well taking your health into your own hands is empowering.

We are a disabled society. This is for many reasons so pick one. Whether because of laziness or some grand conspiracy or simply because the current system is just not in favor of healthy empowered people. Yes everyone indeed deserves help if they need it. No patient should be turned down. Its is always the bottom line though which is $$$money$$$.

This is were we get into a moral and ethical situation. Is it ethical to deny treatment because of finical reasons? What about big pharma getting pimped by doctors because of money? Also who should pick up the tab, and is making what should be a common wealth to society which is medical care and the advancement of humanity a business?

The current paradigm is not in favor of humanity or what is morally and ethically right. I am not against capitalism but when money give people the incentive to do the wrong thing or not do what is right because of a momentary incentive it makes one wonder how humane we really are.

So whats got to happen? People who are able need to take charge of their own health. People need to get informed. Living a healthy lifestyle is a full-time job. It goes much further than oneself. What is good for the planet is good for us. Start growing your own food. Learn about permaculture. Share what you can with others. It goes right back down to each individuals moral code and ethics. Each person who is living the change is one more person for the change. We cannot ask for change and do nothing on a personal level and expect for a change in our favor.


If anyone is interested in learning more about permaculture and how it can better your health and the world check out this thread. PERMACULTURE



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by GareyGaia
In a way we are all missing the point. Health care should be focused on preventive measures. Why is it always after something happens that we feel compelled to do something about it? Why doesn't health care cover vitamins and supplements, or a gym membership? what about healthy organic foods?

As long as people continue to live unhealthy lifestyles their is going to be a cost. Those who are able should take action to be healthy, eat the right foods, and get regular exercise. This will help take some of the burden off of society. As well taking your health into your own hands is empowering.

We are a disabled society. This is for many reasons so pick one. Whether because of laziness or some grand conspiracy or simply because the current system is just not in favor of healthy empowered people. Yes everyone indeed deserves help if they need it. No patient should be turned down. Its is always the bottom line though which is $$$money$$$.

This is were we get into a moral and ethical situation. Is it ethical to deny treatment because of finical reasons? What about big pharma getting pimped by doctors because of money? Also who should pick up the tab, and is making what should be a common wealth to society which is medical care and the advancement of humanity a business?

The current paradigm is not in favor of humanity or what is morally and ethically right. I am not against capitalism but when money give people the incentive to do the wrong thing or not do what is right because of a momentary incentive it makes one wonder how humane we really are.

So whats got to happen? People who are able need to take charge of their own health. People need to get informed. Living a healthy lifestyle is a full-time job. It goes much further than oneself. What is good for the planet is good for us. Start growing your own food. Learn about permaculture. Share what you can with others. It goes right back down to each individuals moral code and ethics. Each person who is living the change is one more person for the change. We cannot ask for change and do nothing on a personal level and expect for a change in our favor.


BAM!!! here we go, now we're cooking with gas. It is everyone's OWN responsibility to care for their own needs. No other person can be charged with taking care of or saving you...To think you have a right to that is scary and just shows the entitlement mentality of people.

I am by no means rich. Hell, I'm barely the low end of middle class. I have paid out of pocket for every emergency room visit I have taken my daughter to or wife to.

I do not accept that others should have to take care of me. You have no RIGHT to insist that I take care of YOU!!!!

Jaden



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by Masterjaden




The postman is not asked on some days to provide the service for free... The burger king employee is not forced to provide you the service for free.

Jaden

Where do you get the Idea that Doc's will not get Paid?????????????????????????????/

The more you answer people , the more you defeat your arguement.

Doc's working in a Socialized System are paid annually in the Hundreds of Thousands.

If you want to Solve the Medical Issue, Take away Medicine for Profit,

Healtcare for Profit is a Crime Against Humanity.

Pay Or Die.

Ya , thats a good system.
edit on 1-7-2012 by Tw0Sides because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by CB328



our collective actions contribute both negatively and positively to the quality of life of everyone else,


But conservatives want to take all of the positives while pretending they owe nothing for the negatives.

Whenever you live in a society there are rules or responsibilities imposed on you by your society in order for that society to function or survive.

If you truly don't want to contribute anything to your fellow citizens you should move to the Alaskan outback or the Sahara desert and support yourself without any help from anyone else, then you won't have any obligations other than survival.


In a free society those responsibilities are incurred by choice, when they are no longer by choice, you are a slave.

The people of America will not allow the bastardization of our country and the continuance of social policies that take away our liberty, we are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights, among these are life, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT of happiness. We are not guaranteed happiness, only the pursuit of it it, but we ARE guaranteed our liberty, even if we must exercise our second amendment RIGHT and take them at the end of a gun.

Jaden





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