A Challenge to All Non-Muslim

reply to post by TheFogHorn


I have not ignored you, I have not been online until an hour ago for almost two days... I am trying to read the thread and catch up and make responses (I also have an interview to do, therefore will not be fully caught up on this thread until late) . I thank you for having patience. However, I will say that another poster pretty much said all that needs to be said to you when he told you that people who would do such things are not Muslim, just as Christians do not consider the Westboro bunch Christians etc.

Any man who rapes a women is not practicing Islam that is most definite.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


I will happily wait for a personal response.

reply to post by nenothtu


lol... your post reminds me of the guy whose wife got up every morning and did her hair and her make-up before he woke up... did that everyday for some 20 odd years... one day she did not do this routine... and for the first time in their entire (very long) marriage he saw her without any make-up on...

and he divorced her! (I guess she must have been really ugly or something, god knows in his mind those 20 years meant not one thing!)



AFTER EDIT:

was that you?

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by nenothtu

 

lol... your post reminds me of the guy whose wife got up every morning and did her hair and her make-up before he woke up... did that everyday for some 20 odd years... one day she did not do this routine... and for the first time in their entire (very long) marriage he saw her without any make-up on...

and he divorced her! (I guess she must have been really ugly or something, god knows in his mind those 20 years meant not one thing!)

I'm sorry but I must have missed something. Please explain to me how female sexual abuse at the hands of muslim men has anything to do with a woman putting on make-up. By the way, is that story a person one or is that something the muslim cleric repeats at the mosque in order to demonise the enemy?


EDIT....just seen your edit. So I tell you that I have been the victim of sustained harassment that made me fear for my life on a daily basis yet your response is to mock me and suggest not only that my husband would leave me if he knew the real me but also that I am likely ugly. I don't think you need to respond to my questions. You have just made it perfectly clear how much you charitable mindest extends to the women of the country in which you are treated as a legal equal. You are demonising me and ridicuuling me because you have been taught to see me as a lesser human being.

You and your ilk and the abuse I suffered and the abuse so many people I know suffered spurs me on to make viral the fact your Allah was based on volcanic activity worship and you can bet your best headscarf that I, my dear, will have the last laugh. And it sure will be a big un.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by nenothtu

 

lol... your post reminds me of the guy whose wife got up every morning and did her hair and her make-up before he woke up... did that everyday for some 20 odd years... one day she did not do this routine... and for the first time in their entire (very long) marriage he saw her without any make-up on...

and he divorced her! (I guess she must have been really ugly or something, god knows in his mind those 20 years meant not one thing!)



AFTER EDIT:

was that you?

edit on 1-7-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

Nope, not me. makeup is a pain in the ass as far as I'm concerned, and constitutes false advertising. It's irritating to have to chip off all that concrete to find out what's really under it.

reply to post by nenothtu


Well neno, you are a curmudgeon after all, we expect no less from you




reply to post by TheFogHorn


dude, it was a reply to neno... not you, my post even says who I was replying to and linked to the post I was replying to.....

Ok....my mistake.....not replying to me. However, my response to it is not entirely out of line as it is quite clearly demonisation and ridicule of Westernised women.

reply to post by TheFogHorn


Relax.

OpinionatedB was responding to me and my distaste for makeup in all it's forms. The post wasn't directed at you, or about you. Your first clue might have been the "reply to" line at the top of the post which linked it to the post it was responding to,.

reply to post by TheFogHorn


Well!

There's one of those irrational, misdirected, chauvinistic attacks that the OP was talking about!

Thanks for the practical demonstration!

nevermind

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by TheFogHorn

 

Well!

There's one of those irrational, misdirected, chauvinistic attacks that the OP was talking about!

Thanks for the practical demonstration!

Ok, so I made a mistake but I am not the one being chauvenistic. Can OpionionatedB please explain why she posted the story about the make-up? Is she seriously trying to suggest that non-muslim women wear make-up all the time and that their husbands never get to see or, as implied, know the real person inside? I find that deeply insulting and wholely inaccruate. Women today mostly do what they want and that includes wearing make-up not for their husband's pleasure or to present a false face but for themselves. I wear nice clothes and make-up for myself because I believe that if you look good you will have a better life. Purposely walking looking unkept just to prove to the world you don't need to be an attractive person is insulting to the rest of the world. It says, 'I'm so good I don't need to make any effort to make myself easier on the eye' and quite frankly a lot of women do need to make themselves more pleasing on the eye. And why not? It doesn't take long and, from what I've gathered, wearing make-up is quite the done thing in muslim lands.....or maybe that's more for bacha bazi...

en.wikipedia.org...

Is it any wonder that homosexual sex is rampant in muslim lands and that, due to this, HIV and Aids are rising faster there than anywhere else in the world? Hide the women or turn them into asexual beings hidden from view or so ugly they shouldn't be viewed and the men will look elsewhere for their pleasure.

It's your choice I guess but I prefer the imperfect choice of FREE choice for both men and women and a liberal attitude towards women's attire and looks and that is not an option in Islam for either the muslims in the Islamic community or the non-muslims stuck in it.

I personally wear make-up most of the time but am not afraid to leave the house without it. I am treated with respect by all the men I encounter because they see me as a well presented, hard working, intelligent business woman who is not ashamed of her gender. I am never sexually abused by the non-muslim men around me and can leave my house day or night in whatever get-up I choose. I can hitch-hike with single men and not worry that something will happen to me. I can also pick up hitch-hikers and never worry about my safety.

Your generalisation is invalid and you need to stop listening to the rubbish your cleric pumps out and what his audience no doubt laughingly laps up with an air of superiority.

There is something to consider regarding the western notion of beauty.

It's a scam. Purely aimed at making money. Now the only way the companies will make money is to sell product...which means convincing women they need the product. How to do this? Make the average woman feel like makeup is an essential necessity.

Now look honestly at our society's insistence on equating feminine beauty with worth. How many women, even WITH expensive makeup, can look like Heidi Klum? Very few.

Our society has created this endless obsession with physical beauty, but what does it truly cost? Not monetarily, but in terms of self worth. How many women suffer from self esteem issues? Eating disorders?

I've heard five year old girls say they are ugly. That breaks my heart.

I wonder what our society could achieve if we devalued personal appearance and focused on a spiritual existence.

reply to post by TheFogHorn

I personally wear make-up most of the time but am not afraid to leave the house without it. I am treated with respect by all the men I encounter because they see me as a well presented, hard working, intelligent business woman who is not ashamed of her gender. I am never sexually abused by the non-muslim men around me and can leave my house day or night in whatever get-up I choose. I can hitch-hike with single men and not worry that something will happen to me. I can also pick up hitch-hikers and never worry about my safety.

Seriously? What do you think would happen if you wore a tight red tank-top, black mini skirt, fishnet stockings, high heels and heavy makeup into a biker bar? Still think you'd be safe?

You feel safe picking up hitchhikers? The only hitchhiker I'd ever pick up is an 85 year old woman. Hitchhiking is extremely dangerous. Don't be naive.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
There is something to consider regarding the western notion of beauty.

It's a scam. Purely aimed at making money. Now the only way the companies will make money is to sell product...which means convincing women they need the product. How to do this? Make the average woman feel like makeup is an essential necessity.

Now look honestly at our society's insistence on equating feminine beauty with worth. How many women, even WITH expensive makeup, can look like Heidi Klum? Very few.

Our society has created this endless obsession with physical beauty, but what does it truly cost? Not monetarily, but in terms of self worth. How many women suffer from self esteem issues? Eating disorders?

I've heard five year old girls say they are ugly. That breaks my heart.

I wonder what our society could achieve if we devalued personal appearance and focused on a spiritual existence.

I notice you use an image of an attractive female in your profile.

Women have always tried to make themselves look their best and even remote tribes in Africa use make-up. Yes, it's too commericalised nowadays but the answer is not to wear headscarves and no make-up and kid ourselves that men will fancy us just as much and that we are just as jolly about ourselves as we would be had we donned a pretty frock, a head of curls and a bit of lippy.

A society has to make a choice......go the liberated way with women wearing what they feel they want to wear or go the Islamic way and force them to adhere to a strict code of conduct? Yes, try to prevent the sexualisation of girls, the overly perfected media representation of females and the commercial influence on taste and perceptions of normal beauty but don't endorce a rigid life system that dictakes how women should live. Our forefathers gave up their lives to defend the liberties we take for granted and now people are so eagerly giving them away.

reply to post by smyleegrl


what you said about the 5 year old is sad, and it seems to be happening more and more in this society. Younger and younger girls all the time decide they are ugly, when in fact they are far from it!

neno said something that is important. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... this is true, someone one person does not consider beautiful another one will. We all look different, and that is what makes each of us totally beautiful. Besides, who wants to look like heidi? she already does! I am good just looking like me!

and your right, make up is an industry, one who desires to sell a product and get rich doing it... it is only in their benefit for us to think we 'need' it.

that said, Muslim women will do their hair and makeup, just not out in public. The idea that we dress down to go out, and then dress up for our families at home. I enjoy my family thinking I am beautiful and look nice, I do not care what strangers I do not know think of my looks however. So I do for the ones who matter to me, rather than the ones who do not.

We are simply backward from western society, a western women does hair and makeup and dressed up to go out, then when she goes home she puts on the comfy sweat pants and takes off the makeup and puts her hair up...... strangers are who sees her at her best. A Muslim women is simply opposite, we take off the makeup and put up our hair and dress in loose fitting clothing to go out, and when we go home we do the makeup and hair and dress nicer.... our family is who sees us at our best.

reply to post by TheFogHorn


I didn't choose her because she was attractive...I chose her because she's strong. Just like me.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
reply to post by TheFogHorn

 

I personally wear make-up most of the time but am not afraid to leave the house without it. I am treated with respect by all the men I encounter because they see me as a well presented, hard working, intelligent business woman who is not ashamed of her gender. I am never sexually abused by the non-muslim men around me and can leave my house day or night in whatever get-up I choose. I can hitch-hike with single men and not worry that something will happen to me. I can also pick up hitch-hikers and never worry about my safety.

Seriously? What do you think would happen if you wore a tight red tank-top, black mini skirt, fishnet stockings, high heels and heavy makeup into a biker bar? Still think you'd be safe?

You feel safe picking up hitchhikers? The only hitchhiker I'd ever pick up is an 85 year old woman. Hitchhiking is extremely dangerous. Don't be naive.

Do you always turn things into the most extreme situation possible? I have many times left my house in very revealing clothing and had no problem whatsoever. I have, as stated before, had horrible sexual harassment while wearing a long hooded coat living in a muslim area where I was clearly deemed 'meat left out for the dogs'. I live amongst civilised men who see me firstly as a human being with a say in what happens to me and therefore I never have to worry about my safety. I pick up every hitch hiker I see. The last one was a young black man as dark as the Ace of Spades. I pick up a hitch hiker at least every week and get picked up myself quite often too. I would not, however, get into the car of a muslim man. Anything else but that. I am too wise for that.

reply to post by TheFogHorn

A society has to make a choice......go the liberated way with women wearing what they feel they want to wear or go the Islamic way and force them to adhere to a strict code of conduct? Yes, try to prevent the sexualisation of girls, the overly perfected media representation of females and the commercial influence on taste and perceptions of normal beauty but don't endorce a rigid life system that dictakes how women should live. Our forefathers gave up their lives to defend the liberties we take for granted and now people are so eagerly giving them away.

I want to be clear. I am not endorsing Islamic religious views or cultural practices. I am certainly not advocating that women should be regulated in our dress or other freedoms. I do NOT believe anyone has the right to force a woman to cover, or forgo makeup, or whatever. But if the woman chooses that lifestyle, then she is still entitled to respect.

Originally posted by TheFogHorn

Ok, so I made a mistake but I am not the one being chauvenistic.

Well, lets see... you trashed her religion and her mode of dress in an irrational response to a conversation that didn't concern you, as if you have some sort of inherent superiority over her in those regards... what do they call that where YOU come from?

Can OpionionatedB please explain why she posted the story about the make-up?

I can. She was responding to this post I made concerning the prevalence of makeup, which was in turn a rsponse to the post quoted therein.

Is she seriously trying to suggest that non-muslim women wear make-up all the time and that their husbands never get to see or, as implied, know the real person inside? I find that deeply insulting and wholely inaccruate.

I've been married twice and shacked-up a couple of times, and every single one of them caked that crap on. I used to get a kick out of asking them what the hell they thought they were hiding. It's a useless waste of time, false advertising, and the crap tastes bad on top of that.

Women today mostly do what they want and that includes wearing make-up not for their husband's pleasure or to present a false face but for themselves. I wear nice clothes and make-up for myself because I believe that if you look good you will have a better life. Purposely walking looking unkept just to prove to the world you don't need to be an attractive person is insulting to the rest of the world. It says, 'I'm so good I don't need to make any effort to make myself easier on the eye' and quite frankly a lot of women do need to make themselves more pleasing on the eye. And why not?

Beauty is skin deep. Skin is, at most, 1/8 inch thick, meaning that beauty is a pretty shallow thing if it only meets the eye, and is faked on top of that. I submit that if one has to make oneself "easier to the eye", then there is a hole inside them somewhere that is in dire need of patching. No amount of external work will fix it.

WHY would a woman have to "make themselves more pleasing to the eye"? What are they hoping to catch with that? How do they plan to hold on to their catch when the cake is scraped off and the real them shows through? Seems to me they would have better luck working on the real them, but to each his own, I suppose.

It doesn't take long and, from what I've gathered, wearing make-up is quite the done thing in muslim lands.....or maybe that's more for bacha bazi...

en.wikipedia.org...

Yeah, I think that the middle east is sort of where makeup was invented...

Is it any wonder that homosexual sex is rampant in muslim lands and that, due to this, HIV and Aids are rising faster there than anywhere else in the world? Hide the women or turn them into asexual beings hidden from view or so ugly they shouldn't be viewed and the men will look elsewhere for their pleasure.

You're kidding, right? And you thought YOU were insulted, by a comment not even directed at you!

It's your choice I guess but I prefer the imperfect choice of FREE choice for both men and women and a liberal attitude towards women's attire and looks and that is not an option in Islam for either the muslims in the Islamic community or the non-muslims stuck in it.

Would that include the choice NOT to try to present an inaccurate front?

I personally wear make-up most of the time but am not afraid to leave the house without it. I am treated with respect by all the men I encounter because they see me as a well presented, hard working, intelligent business woman who is not ashamed of her gender. I am never sexually abused by the non-muslim men around me and can leave my house day or night in whatever get-up I choose. I can hitch-hike with single men and not worry that something will happen to me. I can also pick up hitch-hikers and never worry about my safety.

You know, I'm just not going to take that bait - the punch line is way too easy.

Your generalisation is invalid and you need to stop listening to the rubbish your cleric pumps out and what his audience no doubt laughingly laps up with an air of superiority.

Who is "you" here? Do you mean ME, since the post was addressed to me? If so, WHAT "cleric" are you referring to?

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

what you said about the 5 year old is sad, and it seems to be happening more and more in this society. Younger and younger girls all the time decide they are ugly, when in fact they are far from it!

neno said something that is important. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... this is true, someone one person does not consider beautiful another one will. We all look different, and that is what makes each of us totally beautiful. Besides, who wants to look like heidi? she already does! I am good just looking like me!

and your right, make up is an industry, one who desires to sell a product and get rich doing it... it is only in their benefit for us to think we 'need' it.

that said, Muslim women will do their hair and makeup, just not out in public. The idea that we dress down to go out, and then dress up for our families at home. I enjoy my family thinking I am beautiful and look nice, I do not care what strangers I do not know think of my looks however. So I do for the ones who matter to me, rather than the ones who do not.

We are simply backward from western society, a western women does hair and makeup and dressed up to go out, then when she goes home she puts on the comfy sweat pants and takes off the makeup and puts her hair up...... strangers are who sees her at her best. A Muslim women is simply opposite, we take off the makeup and put up our hair and dress in loose fitting clothing to go out, and when we go home we do the makeup and hair and dress nicer.... our family is who sees us at our best.

Quoting you.....'I guess she must have been really ugly or something'

You earlier had a good dig at Western women and a good giggle at the idea of one of us being really ugly and now you-re claiming that beauty is in the eye of the beholder? I'm not buying your pretend niceness. I believe you look down on Western women and couldn't give two hoots what affect muslim headscarf wearing has on us.

Time to respond to me yet?