A Challenge to All Non-Muslim

Originally posted by TheFogHorn

Ok Rambo,

Actually, the name is Wheewa Hotehi, and the title is "nenothtu". Rambo ain't got nothing on me - he's a mere character in a movie.

You tell me what the answer is then. Muslim women move to Western lands and wear the headscarf or burka plus do not leave the house a great deal without a male chaperone. Non-muslim women and girls find it increasingly risky to leave the house wearing their normal attire or having their hair on show, or leaving the house at all in predominantly muslim areas, which are growing rapidly due to birth rate differentials and continued immigration.

How can I give you the answer if you won't listen?

It seems that if you are a Brit, you live in a different world than I. Your immigrant woes are on your own head, not mine. We have a whole different set of immigration problems over here. You sort yours out, and we'll sort out ours.

As long as you're willing to put up with whatever abuse you get, they'll keep giving it. Where are your "freedom fighters" now?

Are you saying that the Muslims are more nervy than YOU are? Because it seems they have no problem doing as THEY please...

What is the answer? Do nothing and stay silent about the growing sexual abuse of non-muslim women? Encourage non-muslim women to wear headscarves? Encourage segregation? Tell me....what is the solution?

Boldness is the solution. You do what you damned well please, wherever you please to do it, and dare anyone to give you trouble over it. Again, where are your much-vaunted freedom-fighting forebears NOW? Are you telling me that your are less than they were?

Every generation has to fight for their own freedom. They can't rest on the laurels of their forebears, because those laurels are not theirs - they belong to the ancestors.

Originally posted by TheFogHorn
'It's not Islamic' is not good enough an answer. It happens and muslims are the cause of it.

There were over 75,000 convicted forcible rapes in the United States in the year 2009 alone, and over 5,000 convicted attempted rapes in the same reporting period. www.census.gov...

those were the convictions, not reports or allegations of rape.

The fact is, rape and stalking, any kind of sexual crime, is perpetrated by men, it happens in extremely high numbers in lands that have very few Muslims in them. So no, I beg to differ, it is not 'and muslims are the cause of it" especially since Islam does not advocate such behavior. Men are the main committers of this crime, by 99% so I will agree that men are the cause, yet, not even all men, just some men with very sick minds.

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital

Yes the OP is playing the victim card, all she suffers in the West is some abuse and gets some "looks" from strangers. In the Middle East a Christian would be tortured and stoned to death, churchs get burned to the ground regularly, and most Christians there have to hide their identity for fear of death.

If you don't see the difference in that then you are a hypocrite.

Ok, so you've now called posters a hypocrite and an ignoramus. Way to elevate the discourse.

You are off base regarding the OP and the 'playing the victim'. There is no relational value in her argument between her treatment in the US and Christians in the Middle East. For you to conflate the two is pathetic. Both can be atrocious, both can and should be condemned. The fact the treatment of Christians and westerners in the Islamic countries is more worse than her treatment in the west doesn't negate the truth of her experiences here.


Eric

Must admit I don't like make-up, it always makes girls late for dates etc and even a honest hug for a female friend made my life hell trying to explain it (makeup on my shirt) to the ex wife.
Oh and Foghorn the OP seems really nice and honest stop picking her posts apart with a fine toothcomb to try and make her something she is not.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Rahim

Alhumdulillah, sister! Great post. I hope some people will be willing to take up the challenge. Men can also take up a similar challenge. Go out in society dressed like a Muslim man. Wear a kufi (the hat) or a thowb (the long robe).

It's easy for people to criticize Islam and Muslims when they never put themselves in our shoes and experience what we experience on a daily basis.

Originally posted by Yazman
Matthew 11:21-24 - Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching.

Luke 10: 10-15 - Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples

Mark 6:11 - Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11

My mistake - I thought you were referring to some sort of actual destruction and genocide. After reading your references, I see that wasn't the case, and you were speaking figuratively.

The slave who knew his master’s will, but did not do it, was beaten with many stripes. Luke 12:47 (ok to beat slaves, not necessarily kill them, my mistake)

Are you aware of which "slaves" this parable refers to? Do you know how parables function?

Revelation 6:15; 13:16 & 19:18 take for granted the existence of “free men” and “slaves”

1 Corinthians 7:21 Slaves should not desire their freedom.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

None of these are claims Jesus made himself. In the first reference, it's reasonable to take the existence of both for granted - indeed, they STILL exist to this very day, and likely always will. Recognizing that something exists is not the same as condoning that existence. I'm not entirely sure what bearing the last reference has to slavery.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
reply to post by TheFogHorn

 

A society has to make a choice......go the liberated way with women wearing what they feel they want to wear or go the Islamic way and force them to adhere to a strict code of conduct? Yes, try to prevent the sexualisation of girls, the overly perfected media representation of females and the commercial influence on taste and perceptions of normal beauty but don't endorce a rigid life system that dictakes how women should live. Our forefathers gave up their lives to defend the liberties we take for granted and now people are so eagerly giving them away.

I want to be clear. I am not endorsing Islamic religious views or cultural practices. I am certainly not advocating that women should be regulated in our dress or other freedoms. I do NOT believe anyone has the right to force a woman to cover, or forgo makeup, or whatever. But if the woman chooses that lifestyle, then she is still entitled to respect.

right but it is not just about women, if a man or woman take a lifestyle to be nude everywhere so what does the USA police do! anyway there should be a logical and somehow indigenous red line.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


Hello and welcome to this thread. and if you are a sunnie muslim would you search or tell your opinions about the posts in this thread which are about AIESHE or quoted by her in sunnies books from your point of view. they are disputable.

You are demonising me and ridicuuling me because you have been taught to see me as a lesser human being. You and your ilk and the abuse I suffered and the abuse so many people I know suffered spurs me on to make viral the fact your Allah was based on volcanic activity worship and you can bet your best headscarf that I, my dear, will have the last laugh. And it sure will be a big un.

reply to post by TheFogHorn


Your the one claiming Muslims are lesser humans than your superior self. Claiming that men cannot control their neanderthal urges?, Some of us look beyond physical beauty, we are also attracted to character!

Is it any wonder that homosexual sex is rampant in muslim lands and that, due to this, HIV and Aids are rising faster there than anywhere else in the world?

I thought you said ALL Muslim men sexually harassed you?, Asia and Africa have the highest HIV+ population and not the middle east.

I personally wear make-up most of the time but am not afraid to leave the house without it. I am treated with respect by all the men I encounter because they see me as a well presented, hard working, intelligent business woman who is not ashamed of her gender. I am never sexually abused by the non-muslim men around me and can leave my house day or night in whatever get-up I choose. I can hitch-hike with single men and not worry that something will happen to me. I can also pick up hitch-hikers and never worry about my safety.

Do you have any how many 'Westernized' men I've stopped from harassing women? More than 30, Do you have any idea how many Muslim men I've stopped from harassing women, 2! Do the math.

Your generalisation is invalid and you need to stop listening to the rubbish your cleric pumps out and what his audience no doubt laughingly laps up with an air of superiority.

Give the OP one reason to believe in your sayings rather than any religious leader? Clearly if you are dressed inappropriately your chances of getting raped will increase drastically, We've had presidents harass women in the White house and your talking about the middle east!

Originally posted by maes9
reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

 

Hello and welcome to this thread. and if you are a sunnie muslim would you search or tell your opinions about the posts in this thread which are about AIESHE or quoted by her in sunnies books from your point of view. they are disputable.

Maes, I am a Muslim. I don't really believe in sectarianism, although what I believe I guess would be considered somewhere between Sunni and Sufi Islam.

Muhammad said, "My Ummah will split-up into seventy-three sects, all of them are in the Are except one.” So it was said: Who is the one. He said: “That which I and my Companions are upon this day.”

The sects weren't invented until after the death of Muhammad. So I think he was saying that anyone who divides themselves into sects risks the dangers of being in the Hellfire.

What quotes are you specifically referring to and what exactly do you want to know?

I quote you Cooler....'Maes, I am a Muslim. I don't really believe in sectarianism.'

reply to post by TheFogHorn


FogHorn, do you have nothing of substance to add to the thread?

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


Please answer me these questions....

1. Do you believe all women should cover up more and wear conservative clothing?

2. Do you believe women who wear revealing or sexy clothing have less cause for complaint if raped?

3. Do you sympathise with the non-muslim and pro-liberal muslim women living in muslim areas who suffer sexual harassment by muslim men?

4. What are your feelings and beliefs on the subject of the clash of civilisations in the West with regard to muslim men's attitude to women's liberties and what future do you see for your area?

reply to post by TheFogHorn


I do not see any further point to be honest of your participation in this thread. You have made your stance perfectly clear and cannot refute any of the points we have brought up to you. Perhaps you should stick to your own hate threads now?

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by TheFogHorn

 

I do not see any further point to be honest of your participation in this thread. You have made your stance perfectly clear and cannot refute any of the points we have brought up to you. Perhaps you should stick to your own hate threads now?

Afraid are we? Not sure how the question and answer session will go? Trying to scare me off?

I was a victim then....not now.

Cooler....please answer the questions.

reply to post by TheFogHorn


Well this seems to be off-topic and it appears that you are very bigoted and view Islam and Muslims very stereotypically. I'll answer your questions, though.

1. That's up to each individual woman. As the Qur'an says, "There is no compulsion in religion."

2. Absolutely not. And nowhere in the Quran is a statement like this made.

3. Yes I do. Sexual harassment by Muslim men would be a sin in Islam.

4. I don't fully understand your question. What exactly do you mean? Be more specific.

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by TheFogHorn

 

Well this seems to be off-topic and it appears that you are very bigoted and view Islam and Muslims very stereotypically. I'll answer your questions, though.

1. That's up to each individual woman. As the Qur'an says, "There is no compulsion in religion."

2. Absolutely not. And nowhere in the Quran is a statement like this made.

3. Yes I do. Sexual harassment by Muslim men would be a sin in Islam.

4. I don't fully understand your question. What exactly do you mean? Be more specific.

Please tell me where you live, or name somewhere that is like where you live, and also tell me if your stated views here are typical of muslim men in your community or if you are atypical. In other words, do most muslim men believe women should be free to walk around wearing whatever they want, that rape victims' clothing shouldn't come into the equation and that women who wear more revealing clothing are not 'meat left out for the dogs'. Please don't bring Islam into this. I like to gauge things based mostly on the affects. Besides, given the contradicting Medina and Mecca eras, it's possible to claim Islam is the sweetest and nore harmless thing to ever happen to the planet....and I wasn't born yesterday.