American Muslims Stone Christians in Dearborn, MI

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

Those Christians are a bunch of idiots...they went to that festival to cause a reaction. The guy screaming "god is Jesus" into his megaphone is beyond ridiculous.

During a Muslim festival too...how disrespectful. I wonder how they would act if during their Easter festivities in church a bunch of Muslims ran in screaming "Allah akhbar!!!" over and over again. I'm sure those Christian church goers would remain all calm

By the way, the video was produced by United West, the guys in the video were probably even affiliated with them. The entire organization is massive clown operation based on racism and bigotry

So you are saying that going into public and speaking your mind is equated to going into someone's private church on private property and disrupting their services?
That's really illogical and does not equate rationally.

Public property is public.
Private property is private.

Since you agree with attacking people you disagree with, you won't mind if I attack you in a surprise attack for your post here today do you? I mean you support using violence against those you disagree with right?

I am sure you are proud of your pro-violence to censor freedom of speech, just like the rest of the totalitarian devotees we have running around all over the place these days.

Originally posted by neformore

All this crap about constitutional rights doesn't cover up deliberate provocative stupidity does it?

It might - but that doesn't discount some form of "natural consequences"

reply to post by Indigo5

Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth, and every other man has a right to knock him down for it.

I'm sure he said that tongue in cheek.

In fact, and in law, to knock someone down for saying something you don't like is illegal.

This Op title is dishonest, the UnitedWest group is a known hate group, The video is edited and hate propaganda...This thread is bait fot hate and fear mongers.

So is it or is it not illegal?? If they have a constitutional right to protest, than that's all that matters, legally.

Morally, as I said, this Christian group is stupid. I do not agree with their message, but paradoxically, I have to defend their right to say it. Given they protested peacefully behind the lines, during a festival time period during daylight hours, there is really nothing objectionable in doing that.

To proscribe them from congregating and protesting a Muslim festival, would also call into question so many other types of disapproved public gatherings.

The Supreme Court said last year it was OK for these CHRISTIANS to show up and giddely taunt family members at the funerals of dead American Soldiers...Is it thier constitutional right? Sure...would I shed a tear if one of them got hit in the head with an errant frisbee or water-bottle? No.

That's not the point. The point is, ones a peaceful i.e. non-violent protest. The other is a physical response.

If the Muslims had any sense, and given the level of the vulgarity and immaturity in their remonstrations, I take it they have very little, they would have moved as far away as possible from those Christian protestors.

Of course, I understand their annoyance. But their response is a bit overboard. And the swearing, the tawdry use of F-uck, pu-ssies, implies a desire to foment a violent confrontation, and not avoid one.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by paratus
reply to post by Indigo5

 

There are more videos on the interwebs.
All of which could be used as evidence.
feel free to search

pics, and it DID happen

Provide one then...show me him actually getting hit by a rock....Until then I call BS.

Skip to nine minutes into the following video to see the “stoning” portion where large, grey projectiles that look very much like rocks are tossed into the air at the demonstrators as the crowd screams “Allahu Akbar” and closes in:
www.theblaze.com...


There's no questioning the fact that Ruben Israel's group came to the Dearborn Arab Festival to provoke a response from Muslims. But their actions were protected by the U.S. Constitution. The violent response they received from Muslims, however, was illegal. Every bottle, rock, or milk crate thrown was an assault.
atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...
3rd story from the top.

reply to post by dontreally


actually any one who has suffered abuse,, say at childhood growing up,, gets the picture,,
like two parents,, 1 giving it the other taking it,, well ,, anyone who has seen it before knows what always happens next.

I don't mind arguing at anyone on this forum or anywhere on Earth verbally. I will bring the big guns and I will mop the floor with the totalitarians.

I'm getting real tired of being inundated with people who think they can nullify my (or other's) rights with whatever reasoning they can conjure.

I'm not even really aiming specifically, this is a general shore bombardment.
The gauntlet has been thrown down.

Originally posted by ItsSocietysFault

Originally posted by muzzleflash
If you think that someone has a right to use violence against someone they disagree with over a verbal debate, than you need to leave this country now please.

This country is founded upon the protection of rights.

You do NOT have a right to hit someone.

You DO have a right to argue back, or choose to IGNORE them.

Hitting someone makes you a criminal, especially if it's over beliefs.

Well, actually as many members have been trying to tell you, the Supreme Court has recently decided different from what you are saying. They happen to be the final word on this subject, and they do not agree with you. That is, words can cause physical harm and provoke one to retaliate physically. You are the one that is wrong. You are stating your opinion and how you want things to be. We are stating the way things are as ruled by the Supreme Court of the United States.

Well that would certainly open the door for tons of violence because these forums are full of hate speech.
Would it then be ok to attack anyone that says extreme things to us.
Many family disputes get real nasty.
I guess we could just all beat the crap out of each other
because the supreme court is wiping with the paper it should uphold.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Furbs

 

Just curious, if they were BEHIND the lines and remained behind the lines, what would be your view? Do they have a constitutional right to protest?

Also, why do you ignore the possibility of the Muslims coming to the lines to meet these protestors? Why do you assume they passed the line??? And to cite the deerborne newspaper article - a heavily Muslim town with a natural bias in favor of Muslims - is not objective.

I don't assume they passed "the line", I showed you they they were clearly walking down the middle of the festival fairway by citing photographic evidence. I am willing to entertain any evidence you have to refute that, but you offer none, other than your own conjecture.

Natural bias of a newspaper cannot put the protestors inside of the festival if they weren't there.

These so called Christians seem to have forgotten a few of commands that should be guiding their conduct.

(Romans 12:17-18) 17 Return evil for evil to no one. Provide fine things in the sight of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends upon you, be peaceable with all men.

(Luke 6:27) 27 “But I say to you who are listening, Continue to love your enemies, to do good to those hating you,

The reaction the, so called, "Christians" got was exactly what they intended. These protesters were purposely inflaming the Muslims attending the festival.
However, that does not give the Muslims the right to respond the way they did. All they did was feed the stereotype of the angry violent Muslim. It is a pity that neither group had any common sense.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Kryties

 

They did not just have signs, nor were they peacefully standing around.... lol... they were dragging around a real pigs head tied to a pole, walking through the entire festival and yelling at the Muslims (through a megaphone) that their Prophet was a peodophile, a liar, and a murderer etc etc etc

He also called the Muslim children "demon possessed", yes, prize of Christianity and peaceful protesting there!

edit on 27-6-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

The pigs head was not this protest

reply to post by muzzleflash


I don't condone violence at all...and yes, they overreacted. But clearly the blame can't be put solely on them.

If a Muslim walked up to a Christian like that with a megaphone in a predominantly Christian neighbourhood...how long do you think would it take until the first punch is thrown?? Fact is, this wouldn't have happened in the first place if those Christian fools wouldn't have provoked the situation in the first place. You can provoke almost anyone into getting violent. For some it's if you make fun of their religion (especially through a megaphone), for others it's making mom jokes...everyone has something that pushes their buttons.

The thing is, as much as I don't condone violence...if I live in some house and a couple of guys came standing outside screaming "your gf is a bat# crazy bitch" over and over again through a megaphone while I eat dinner with her (which is about equally as annoying as what those Christians did to those Muslims)...well...to be honest I couldn't guarantee they would remain unharmed if they didn't stop.

In the end, those Muslims were aggressive...and the Christians are an uneducated bigotted bunched provoking fools. I'd call it even tbh.

reply to post by RealSpoke


Nice.

There are some much more severe ones with injuries from Philadelphia, it was a few years ago, but it was pretty intense and gruesome. Full beer cans bouncing off the heads of peope and causing a need for stitches. And these people were not idealogically opposed or religious fanatics, they were just mad about a couple of officiating calls!

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Wow, right-wing Christian fundamentalists attack and insult a peaceful event and then they DEMAND protection when they get a response?

I think it's sad that the festival reacted in this way, but I actually understand the anger. If you attack me like I'm gonna respond too.

Christians (and I use that term VERY LOOSELY) attacked first, they riled up a group of people doing no harm to them, and then they bitch and complain about getting a response. Then they try to use footage of it as propaganda, no better than Hitler did against the Jews.

People are not buying your brand of BS.

Oh, and the title is also misleading - which gives away the intention of this thread.

Originally posted by dontreally


So is it or is it not illegal?? If they have a constitutional right to protest, than that's all that matters, legally.

Morally, as I said, this Christian group is stupid. I do not agree with their message, but paradoxically, I have to defend their right to say it. Given they protested peacefully behind the lines, during a festival time period during daylight hours, there is really nothing objectionable in doing that.

It's illegal to attack people which is the crux of this entire incident and it's repercussions.

To be honest and frank about it, we could look at any religious group of any sort, even fan boy clubs, and they are all repeating the same mistakes.

They get fanatical, they get desperate, and they do stupid things as a result.

You name me an organized group who believes in something, and I can show you endless youtube videos of them doing stupid things.

reply to post by ItsSocietysFault
don't suppose you'd care to link an applicable USSC case rather just the circular nonsense being contributed so far ??

your insistance minus valid authority encourage many to question your understanding of what is and is not protected or when for that matter.
in a public venue (as this was), that speech better be pretty darn specific to garner the response currently described/displayed to the public.

doesn't it bother you in the slightest that these Americans do have the right to defend themselves against such children who are attacking them? (with lethal force even)

doesn't it concern you that the unresponsive parents are purposely encouraging their children to engage in activities that could easily get them killed over nonsense ??

edit to add: i think the part many are misunderstanding is the "location, location, location" aspect of these incidents. IF the protesters had interrupted prayers inside the mosque shouting vile and threatening things, those actions could be considered inciteful, however, these acts, in a public venue, don't and wouldn't qualify.
such random generalizations don't apply in this country.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


The "mob" was primarily teens and preteen kids, and the Xtians were there to antagonize the people who were celebrating their religion and community. With bullhorns no less. Full grown men with bullhorns and picket signs at a carnival festival put on by a Muslim community group. That's some twisted, messed up stuff right there.

It may be legal to be a flaming *sshole, but don't crybaby when a bunch a kids start taking it to you over it. That's pathetic. These guys make Christians look like idiots.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by dontreally


So is it or is it not illegal?? If they have a constitutional right to protest, than that's all that matters, legally.

Morally, as I said, this Christian group is stupid. I do not agree with their message, but paradoxically, I have to defend their right to say it. Given they protested peacefully behind the lines, during a festival time period during daylight hours, there is really nothing objectionable in doing that.

It's illegal to attack people which is the crux of this entire incident and it's repercussions.

To be honest and frank about it, we could look at any religious group of any sort, even fan boy clubs, and they are all repeating the same mistakes.

They get fanatical, they get desperate, and they do stupid things as a result.

You name me an organized group who believes in something, and I can show you endless youtube videos of them doing stupid things.

It is also illegal to do things designed to provoke a violent reaction. When these protestors stated that they were going to the festival and would require protection from the police, it could very easy be argued that they went fully expecting to be attacked.

That is against the law in Michigan.

Originally posted by muzzleflash


Since you agree with attacking people you disagree with,

Just to be clear..."disagree with"?

If I go to a summer festival and someone tells my children they are going to "Burn in a Lake of Fire" and "Prepare to meet your maker"....and that God is a child molestor....It might not be legal or constitutional, but I am going to have more than a "disagreement" with them.

A disagreement is when you think the guy at first base missed the tag.

Threatening kids is not a "disagreement".

Originally posted by detachedindividual
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

Wow, right-wing Christian fundamentalists attack and insult a peaceful event and then they DEMAND protection when they get a response?

You are being religiously biased which is illogical.

Logic dictates that we look at the LAW and determine if people's actions are consistent.

Who gives a damn what religion they are!!!??

Is it illegal to protest or counter-protest? No?
Is it illegal to attack people physically in public? Yes?

You are in jeopardy of being associated with "bias for religion, anti-free speech, pro-violence to get your way".

reply to post by muzzleflash

By the way, stating your religious belief cannot be construed as provocational since you do actually have 100% rights to say it whenever and where ever you please.

Negative that is not the case.

If you read any of the links I supplied you would see that there is a litmus test that is applied in these sorts of situations.

Context is King. If what you say is likely to incite Imminent lawless action then it's not protected speech.