No more worship of the troops

Originally posted by projectvxn
I dont want your worship. That's stupid. I do what I believe is right for me and the country. Your opinion of that belief is inconsequential to me as well. I dont need approval, adoration, or "worship". Just ignore me. I wear camo to not be seen anyway.

edit on 24-6-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by EvanB
As a soldier I do not fight for you, or my country but for the guy or girl next to me.. I do not want or need your acknowledgements... I do the job I was born to do and am very good at it.. The only acknowledgement I respect is that off my fellow soldiers.. All this "thanks for your service" nonsense is embarrassing..

I do however expect to be given the entitlements due when leaving the forces..

The countries end of the military covenant.. I.e. Housing, a chance to work, and healthcare if I get injured in war and become disabled... I do not expect to be spat on either, as this will result in a hospital visit for the spitter...

In other words.. Love us, hate us, I dont care...

Just dont get in my face.....

I really enjoyed these two responses. I do not agree with war and in a perfect world society wouldn't be so ignorant or brainwashed into thinking we need an offensive military. I see this on just about equal terms for both sides. I don't like war. I don't like that youngsters are joining at alarming rates and shipped overseas at even more disturbing rates. Unfortunately, this is the world we live in and it doesn't seem to be getting better any time soon. I would have given a limb to see Ron Paul as president and attempt to bring all our trips home simply to defend our borders as it should be. We should not have an offensive military, no one should.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

sorry to tell you, but I've learned a terrible secret over the last 6.5 years. i won't go into what that secret is, but I will tell you that even if there were no military there will be wars...even these threads, where people debate and exchange ideas is a type of warfare; psychological, social and cultural and in many ways a type far more efficient and effective than what would be called traditional.

i'm not saying there are not people in this world that consider war to be an opportunity to make some money...that much is obvious. I see all the advertisements, but ultimately, war is very real and they are and will be fought for very real reasons.

Fair enough. I get what you are saying, and agree with it to a point. As long as there are people who understand tactics, there will be people to leverage those tactics.

Good stuff. I get so frustrated at people who think that supporting their country means keeping their mouths shut, not complaining, and basically overlooking any wrongdoings on the part of the state as long as they aren't interfering directly with their daily lives. Thinking this way is purely disgusting, considering what so many brave men risked, fought for, and died for to give us the Constitution. That is something that should not be taken lightly, and I don't care if it is the president himself, which it usually is nowadays, if they are not respecting the rule of law and the Constitution, they should suffer the horrible consequences that everyday people suffer for MUCH LESS.

People are getting life sentences for armed robbery, when no one gets hurt, yet a politician can completely dump on the most important document in American history, the document that means the most, and nothing happens to them? How is that right? The people MUST have a mechanism in place to show their dissent when the government oversteps its bounds. Jefferson said so many times himself, and that measure was decided to be the right to bear arms, so the people could rise against a tyrannical government that was not abiding by the rules.

Well, the newsflash is that the government is not abiding by the rules, and they haven't been for a long time now. So why is violent revolution so revolting an idea to so many people? Does your liberty mean so little to you that you would rather do nothing? They even take away and restrict the one other avenue of dissent, which is publicly protesting, which wouldn't work and hasn't worked in America in a long time. The politicians do not have to listen to what the people want, because it doesn't matter what the people want. Once the position of office gets high enough, maintaining public support doesn't even matter. Look at how much Obama promised toward disclosure and transparency, only to recant after taking office. So many things are wrong, and this thread represents one of the main issues.

What you describe, in my opinion, comes down to blind ignorance. If someone really cares about their country, they should do anything they can to make sure it stays on the right track. Not blindly support illegal and un-Constitutional laws and actions. The other politicians and the rest of the government don't want to prosecute anyone, and in all reality they would just throw someone else under the bus and continue doing what they do best, cheating the American people.

The vast majority of people in the military are just doing what they're told to do, even if what they are doing is wrong...If the government tells them it is right, they think, along with many others, that this is the case. The people of the military are risking their lives, but recently it has NOT been for the protection of the US. Definitely not. What they are risking their lives for is the psycho vision of a relatively small group of people.

I think the OP has a point in stating we should not worship the military, and the military has been worshipped since the dawn of time, it has always been the case, the brave heroic soldiers defending their country, righting the wrongs of the world. Go way back to Roman or Babylonian times, it was the same then, the glory of victory, we extol their sacrifice and heroism

This does not mean however we should not respect our armed forces, they often do give the ultimate sacrifice, more than most people can imagine and I can say this as an old soldier myself, one who served during the Falklands war. A war which on the surface seemed justifiable, defend British territory and British citizens from the evil invading Argentinians. However it was not about this, it was about gas and oil rights and when you come across those evil invaders, they are just kids, 18 - 20 years old, terrified, ill equipped, cold, wet hungry just wanting to go home and be with their families, hardly evil people, looking at you with haunted faces and you realise all they want at that moment is to see a brief bit of kindness in your eyes, a sign to say you are not just going to butcher them on the spot, a ray of hope. And this is actually what war really is on a battle field, just a desperation to survive, a dream of home and peace. It's hate towards those you have never even met, indoctrination of troops to feel less and hate more.

And so who is truly responsible for war, these scared kids who misguidedly believe they are serving their country and defending their homeland? Is it the politicians and those behind them that send them off to wars for finical gain? And trust me, wars are only ever fought for profit and resources. Or is it you and me who are to blame?

To be honest I think we are ALL to blame, soldiers fight because they are told too, that is part of your training and indoctrination when you join up, FOLLOW Orders or ELSE, as a soldier you do and you trust in your superior officers to send you to fight only when is necessary and to defend your country and people, you are not interested in politics or conspiracy theories, you trust your government and your officers, wrongly but you do. Politicians definitely take the blame for they are always the ones that give the orders to start these wars, but we also are to blame, because after all, these politicians can start wars only because we as people allow them too, we do nothing to stop them, or the vast majority don't, very few make their feelings known and take a stand.

Do you really think if 200 million Americans took to the streets and said NO that the politicians could still go to war? Of course not, but instead people sit behind their computers and rant, yet do nothing so we all take the blame for wars, it is not just the soldiers, the politicians, it is us as people who do nothing to stop it that are also to blame, that includes me and you, yes you reading this, you are to blame also.

But hey soldiers reading this, you know what is happening is wrong, bombing villages with drones, there is no honor, there is no bravery, this is not war it is remote murder and cannot be justified in any circumstances

Stop using the arguement that people who don't want to support what the troops are doing or the politicians that are sending them there don't support the troops. If anything, they support the troops way more than those who want to send them to foreign countries so they can die for corporate profiteering.

STOP.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by petrus4

 

DON'T WORSHIP THE TROOPS.

Soldiers are not gods. They are men and women who are trying to do the right thing.

Now whether you believe it's the right thing or not, is moot.

I don'thate union members.
I don't hate liberals.
I don't hate vegans.
I don't hate PETA members.

I respect that "they" think they are doing the right thing.

Don't want to say thanks?
Fine. Sometimes it gets embarrassing.

But actively spit on us, you might find we have issue with that.

Just ignore us. Turn your back. We don't want worship when we get home.

Actually, a job and an oppourtunity to work would be nice.

This is a very noble, and classy response. I am of the mind that most, if not all of the wars we've been involved with since WW2 have been a horrendous waste. I DO believe our foreign policy is evil, based on the information and resources available to me, and I also believe we are mostly responsible for how hated we are, however this is a political issue. You can't blame all, or even the majority of soldiers for the atrocities, incidents, or injustices that come from "unjust wars" if there is such a thing as a just one.

On the other hand, things do happen that there are no excuses for, and I feel that following orders is not an excuse in a situation that is blatantly immoral. The kids going in because they believe they are contributing to a good cause have my respect at least in their intentions. Coast guard, and border patrol are generally who I am willing to attribute my freedom however, and if I had my way, American soil is where I would focus my defense, not back door, secret chess games involving 3rd world governments, and ensuring democracy for people that don't even want it.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

Treat the cause, not the symptom...

maybe we shouldn't worship science, specifically chemistry, since chemists are producing all the hot new designer drugs; which caused far more deaths that wars. 37,485 drug related deaths 2009; which is just higher than traffic deaths...maybe we should stop producing drivers while we're trying to save lives.

everytime I have a conversation like this....where it leads is always to the same place. NOTHINGNESS.

believe in nothing, embrace nothing, become nothing...

What double-speak absurdity.

Soldiers go to war and kill people, all for the corporations and expanding empire. You can provide whatever asinine excuses and circular logic you want to not blame them (your words: "the soldiers that fight in them do what is asked of them and are not capable starting a war") but really its just excusing mindless following of orders. Which is #ing pathetic.

Someone once wrote: "You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you."

I hate wars as much as anyone (sane), but people like Hitler and his thugs had to be stopped. Only force could stop them or they would still be killing innocent people today.

Wars are started by politicians:
"War is nothing more than the continuation of politics by other means."-- Carl von Clausewitz

If you don't want wars, vote for people who oppose them. But sometimes true evil must be stopped.

Originally posted by Nicolas Flamel


I hate wars as much as anyone (sane), but people like Hitler and his thugs had to be stopped. Only force could stop them or they would still be killing innocent people today.

Actually, the US allowed Hitler to get as powerful as he did. He took out all their competition, and then at the last minute they swooped in and 'stopped' him. Hitler imploded under the weight of his own expanded Empire.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
Some of you military bashers need to put your heads on straight.

Fact: Politicians and Lawmakers and by extension the people that elected them are responsible for the wars.

the soldiers that fight in them do what is asked of them and are not capable starting a war;

I was thinking the exact same thing. When I served I remember thinking I wish I could write the policies because the ones I have to follow are retarded. I am only 1 vote and even if all of the military was to vote the same way it would not compare to the number of baby boomers who vote.

There is an information gap between the 2 groups and also a lack of ability for one group to filter out BS from their TV set. They are trained to believe everything their government tells them and not question motives of those they see as "Respectable" like Bush was. Even when something is proved to them and they can not deny the facts they dismiss it as necessary or some other meaningless reason.

Anyone with ears that hear and a mind that thinks will understand the importance of what this video is trying to convey. Unfortunately the group who vote to support globalist warmonger tycoons think that God's work is more important than world relations or war. They are fine with seeing reports of dead Iraqi women and children and even the soldiers who have been killed because they feel it is necessary.

These same people would not sacrifice their own lives for their convictions, but rather the lives of the young who probably disagree with the war especially after they have seen firsthand what is happening. With that in mind try showing one of these videos to someone from that group. They are eager to send you videos showing a abortion doctor being bombed in his office or a story about how terrible the democrats are and how faggots should all die. They will not even watch the video or consider the ramifications of their actions. They will not claim any responsibility for war even though it would not happen without their support.

So the soldiers are demonized because of the war that was started by angry revenge-full religious baby boomers and the like. Fortunately there are enough people awake now that have seen the decades long war firsthand and spread the word about the real issues and intentions of our government. As a soldier you are owned by the government and have no rights as a person. You must obey commands. The commander in chief is elected and commands the military. It is up to him to decide where and when we fight and against who.

Those responsible for electing him must hold him accountable for lies and deceit in order to bring about change in the future. That is not happening because they would have to admit fault and they are incapable. At some point those people who fix things without regard to their own livelihood will make the sacrifices necessary to change society like Iceland has done. The people who are awake and unafraid will actively take back the floundering government while those responsible sit idly by drooling from the mouth in their stupidity.

I suppose that is why we like comic book heroes so much because they will come to the rescue when we screw things up.

reply to post by stanguilles7


Hitler was an psychopathic idiot and a fatalist. The Russians beat the Nazis, the Allies made sure Stalin didn't get to the English Channel.

Some people in the US and Britain thought, at first, Hitler was on the right track. They were on the wrong side of history.

Same crap different day, and if people have a problem with the military take it up with our civilian leadership because they are the ones who starts wars,and send those men and women into harms way.

Idolotry is a cancer in this country and the world be it politicians or folks in uniform, and there is a clear difference between worship and respect for those who made it possible for all of us to sit here and run our mouths til our little hearts content,

Anywhere else in the world most would get a bullet to the back of the head or have a nice stay in section 209.

reply to post by petrus4


Dig deep enough, you'll find "similarities" between any two cultures. there are far more differences than similarities by far between North America and Nazi Germany. The easiest to cite, the anti-military sentiment that your post typifies, never have happened in Der fatherland.

The most important difference is the "North Americans" have helped end and prevent wars.Lots of them. The Nazis?.....

Gee, they both drive on the right side of the road, too! Horrors......

reply to post by stanguilles7


your words have a pretty sharp edge. some people say that words hurt worse than bullets. but emotional and mental violence are acceptable in your world; so be it.

and since we know you aren't under anyones control and you actually think, you are 100% responsible for your uncompromising and vicious statements that you make to me and probably many others.

i've met people that don't personally engage in physical violence, but are far worse human beings, by my estimation, than any soldier and responsible for far more human suffering than any American soldier has ever been responsible for.

but that's why I enjoy meeting people like you. when all of this madness comes to a screeching halt...we can see who is truly responsible for all of this chaos.

Originally posted by neo96


Idolotry is a cancer in this country and the world be it politicians or folks in uniform, and there is a clear difference between worship and respect for those who made it possible for all of us to sit here and run our mouths til our little hearts content,

What crap, neo. How is the war in Iraq or Afghanistan making Americans 'safer'?

GIve up the pro-war propaganda.

reply to post by stanguilles7


Pro war?

Seriously?

Same crap different day, and if people have a problem with the military take it up with our civilian leadership because they are the ones who starts wars,and send those men and women into harms way.

Learn how to read

Originally posted by michaelbrux
Some of you military bashers need to put your heads on straight.

Fact: Politicians and Lawmakers and by extension the people that elected them are responsible for the wars.

the soldiers that fight in them do what is asked of them and are not capable starting a war;

so? i've heard stories from my friends who are in the military. they're essentially nazi s. People should be discouraged from joining the military. The youth that refuses to do it will usher in a dawn of no war

I find the idea of military to defend ones own country to be extremely honorable!

...too bad this is not what is happening.

Wars are used to give people in power, more power.
Wars are used to give people with money, more money.
Wars are used to silence benevolent, democratic and free countries that want out of the global fascism.

Wake up, stop joining the problem.
Honor the naivety of soldier that think it is honorable but do not honor their ability to follow orders which are destroying people's freedom around the world while we get poorer and poorer.

Wake up soldiers, this is not the good fight, you are fighting alongside the devil.

reply to post by Germanicus

edit- Some of the Vietnam protesting went too far though. We cant blame the troops. We must blame the governments. I do not think we should worship the troops but they do deserve our respect.

I don't think any human should be worshiped, and as far as respecting our troops, I reserve the right to respect those who conduct themselves honorably within the military.

Just because they wear or wore a uniform doesn't mean they are worthy of respect.

reply to post by neo96

Way to avoid my point. I asked you specifically how the Iraq and Afghan wars are protecting americans freedom, as you claimed.

Obviously you cant defend that ridiculous claim, so as usual, you move the goal posts.