No more worship of the troops

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posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by petrus4
This is garbage, Flyers.

It's the truth. If you think that there aren't entities out there who want to destroy the free west and especially America, then I've got a bridge to sell you ...


America has not been involved in a single major conflict, ....

A strong military means that those entities won't hit you because they know they'll get hit back. Weaken our defenses, and it will embolden those who wish us destroyed to attack us. Be it China ... or Iran ... or N. Korea ... or the ideology of radical Islam .... there are entities out there who wish us extreme harm. The only thing keeping them from taking us over is the fact that we are strong.

Dippy-hippy wannabeeees want to disarm the USA.
They dont' realize that is suicide.
Their internet .. freedom of speech ... freedom of (and from) religion ... all would go away.
(Or they'd just plain be dead)


You speak of these entities as if they can only be outside the US / west. Maybe the entities that want to destroy us are on our own soil and are the ones that push us into war. Most of us will be dead if the wars continue. Fighting for peace and freedom of speech is an oxymoron.



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posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by michaelbrux
Some of you military bashers need to put your heads on straight.

Fact: Politicians and Lawmakers and by extension the people that elected them are responsible for the wars.

the soldiers that fight in them do what is asked of them and are not capable starting a war;


You DO NOT give up your Humanity or morality when you agree to join the military.

Many Nazi's tried to claim the same thing - "I was just following orders". It makes NO DIFFERENCE.

All people have free will, if you kill under instruction from another (whether they are a senior officer or President of the USA) and that death is not justified, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE.

I am sick to death of seeing this lame excuse rolled out.

Moral people refuse to shoot. Immoral people follow any and all instructions even when they know that it is wrong. That is what makes 90% of the American military something to be ashamed of.

And that is what makes 90% of the British military something to be ashamed of too!
edit on 24-6-2012 by detachedindividual because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by Germanicus
It seems that things have turned full circle now.

War is peace again. Ignorance is strength.


It's partly because WW2 has almost passed out of living memory, at this point; so the fascists figure that it's time for them to try again.
edit on 24-6-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)


I think you are right.

Baby boomers have no memory of hardship. None of do. Its been peaches and cream for all of us. hardship is gonna come as a terrible shcok when it does come.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 06:50 AM
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I agree with some of what you're saying, Petrus. However, I don't really find much reason to blame the troops though there are certainly psychopaths among them. I blame our governments, Capitalism gone off the tracks, Fascism. I think a few people join the military out of a sense of patriotic duty, but most because they have too few other options. A lot of good people just can't be told that it isn't worth it, that they're being lied to, brainwashed...it's sadly something that generally doesn't come into realization until you're in it for a while. That's my best guess anyway, I don't have personal experience.

There is something else to consider as well and it isn't fear porn that brought me to this conclusion. America is so hated that should our military ever weaken, we would be devoured. I'm a peace lover but I'm also a realist. Another thing to consider is that our government has the ability to implement a draft, it is far better for the troops to be enlisted by choice and compensated somewhat fairly, than to be in the military by "law" and given 3 meals a day, a roof and a uniform as compensation.

The wars will continue, voluntary service or not, until we the People say no more.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 06:52 AM
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Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1

Originally posted by petrus4
I don't know whether or not humanity will ever be freed from the shadow of psychopathic fascism; but I do know that the first step towards reaching that condition, is to cease our worship of both the military, and war itself. The military do not prevent the scenario of global fascism from becoming a reality; in fact, they serve to bring that scenario closer.
edit on 24-6-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)


I don't worship our troops.

That said, I respect them a hell of a lot more than snot-nosed kids sitting behind computer screens posting updates on Facebook, stuffing their faces with Twinkies, *playing* Medal of Honor, and using their spare time to tell people on internet forums their interpretation of reality.


some troops use facebook and play medal of honour- also, what if one of those kids had just helped an elderly person cross the road?


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posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by ValentineWiggin
Was I right in this response? I don't know. I've struggled with it since I said it.


You were completely justified. Soldiers' entitlement complex is just one more form of chauvanism.

You may have noticed, that society recently is gradually filling up with people who consider themselves entitled victims, for one reason or another. Everyone's got their own personal sob story which they attempt to use to justify their belief that while, yes, according to the Marxist brainwashing that we've all been immersed in these days, we're all equal...but can't I please, please be just a little bit more equal than everyone else? I've been through so much.

Both the military and the civilian population need to accept the fact that the current wars are not fought to protect anyone's freedom. They're fought so that demoniacs like George W Bush, Dick Cheney, and David Rockefeller get to post an extra few billion dollars on their income statement next quarter.

That is the main thing that really makes me angry; it has before, and it is going to continue to do so. It's not even the fact that said wars are fought, primarily. It's the fact that no matter how many people die, on all sides, and no matter how disgusting, inhuman, and degraded it gets, everyone is still willing to continue to believe the same outright lies that Flyers regurgitated earlier in this thread.

Have your damn wars. Be corporate mercenaries, if you want. Just don't keep insisting that everyone believe the vomit that they are fought for any morally defensible or justifiable reason; because they are not. They happen for the simple reason that this planet is ruled by psychopaths, and the little people who are so ruled, are willing to die, be maimed, and undergo literally any other form of misery imaginable, before they are willing to accept responsibility for their actions.

We're going to become extinct if we keep giving Eichmann's defense, of just following orders...and we won't deserve anything better than extinction, either.
edit on 24-6-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by Kali74
I agree with some of what you're saying, Petrus. However, I don't really find much reason to blame the troops though there are certainly psychopaths among them. I blame our governments


I blame politicians for giving the orders they did, Kali.

I blame the troops, however, for the fact that oxygen still continues to pass through said politicians' lungs, after the fact; particularly given what has been done to other countries in the process.

I don't resent the troops for killing people. I resent the troops for killing the wrong people; and then expecting praise and gratitude regardless.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1
I don't worship our troops.

That said, I respect them a hell of a lot more than snot-nosed kids sitting behind computer screens posting updates on Facebook, stuffing their faces with Twinkies, *playing* Medal of Honor, and using their spare time to tell people on internet forums their interpretation of reality.


If I was going to stereotype people that broadly myself, I might wonder what you are doing on the Internet. See how that works?

Your attempt at paternalistically shaming me into silence has failed.


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posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 07:09 AM
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It’s real easy to sit back in your cozy little room, with your cozy lap top and Wi Fi and your cozy little TV watching Jon Stewart and CNN and drinking your bottled water, taking your kids to their soccer games, meeting friend’s and eating at Applebee’s, driving your SUV with your save the Whales they’re people too sticker, texting on your cell phone while looking for an APP for your I Pad, while bitching cuz your AC doesn’t seem cold and wanting to slip into your hot tub with your glass of Viognier, while bitchin cuz the cable went out and you will miss the latest rerun of sex in the city and getting aggravated cuz the kids are gunna need some attention from you cuz the Play Station won’t work and the house keeper left and now your “partner” will be home soon and will want some attention also and… and… and… bitch about the military but let me tell ya sweat heart, we don’t live in a perfect world. Someone somewhere is going to rise up and try to take away all your stuff. Now I know you and your fat lazy neighbors aren’t gunna get up off their dead fat asses to try to stop them. Someone else will be there to preserve the way of life you have grown accustom to. And that my lazy, fat, whining, bitchen, holier than thou wine drinkin, sign carryin, animal huggin, veggie eatn, anti-religion, communist “buddy”, you should apologize and and say thankyou. Just go back to livin the life and leave the others who have been entrusted to preserve your worthless life to live theirs.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 07:11 AM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


I don't think a majority expect praise and gratitude.
I think most would rather forget.
I think generally anyone is shocked with blatant disrespect, couple that with PTSD and things may not be so articulate, but I believe that is the case.
I think it's the psychopaths that come home all puffed up and bragging about what they did for our freedom.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by D1Useek
It’s real easy to sit back in your cozy little room, with your cozy lap top and Wi Fi and your cozy little TV watching Jon Stewart and CNN and drinking your bottled water,






This is another element that is frustrating...although actually, at this point, it's starting to become humorous; and all it really does is provide yet more evidence of your mind control.

A more original response would be appreciated. That one is really starting to get old.


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posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 07:23 AM
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reply to post by D1Useek
 


Yes, be terrified of a bearded man in a cave, because he's "somehow" going to amass an army of hundreds of thousands of troops, build warships, buy fighter jets, and then invade the nation!!!!!! And you won't even see it coming!!!!!!!!

An army in defense of a nation is a justifiable entity. An army ever growing, invading other nations on suspicions, lies and excuses, is not justifiable.

People know there are bad people in the world, we know there are rogue states and maniac leaders. They can be dealt with without invading and attacking other nations, and without occupying their land and conveniently making oil deals and infrastructure arrangements for massive American corporations.

I'm sorry to say it, but your rant made no difference to the vast majority of people who now know what the military is really there for - conquest, theft and murder at the behest of the most powerful corporations on Earth.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by michaelbrux
Some of you military bashers need to put your heads on straight.

Fact: Politicians and Lawmakers and by extension the people that elected them are responsible for the wars.

the soldiers that fight in them do what is asked of them and are not capable starting a war;





Did that excuse work for the Nazi's?

Dammit man, you are a free man. Act like it. If someone asks you to do something, not only can you say "No", but not doing so shows a certain spinelessness that I cannot consider in the same sentence as the word "brave".

Yes, i blame the politicians for directing. But i also blame the soldier for being a follower and going along with it.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by ValentineWiggin
 


You handled it perfectly. Accountability is important. If he "almost died" defending America, what he was defending was our productivity and our way of life. Laziness and insubordination are not military traits, not will I accept them as an American trait.

I don't care about your laurels. To be on MY team means you work step for step with your team.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 07:37 AM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by michaelbrux
Some of you military bashers need to put your heads on straight.

Fact: Politicians and Lawmakers and by extension the people that elected them are responsible for the wars.

the soldiers that fight in them do what is asked of them and are not capable starting a war;


Did that excuse work for the Nazi's?

Dammit man, you are a free man. Act like it. If someone asks you to do something, not only can you say "No", but not doing so shows a certain spinelessness that I cannot consider in the same sentence as the word "brave".

Yes, i blame the politicians for directing. But i also blame the soldier for being a follower and going along with it.


I like the way this gorilla thinks.






posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


i clicked the link and saw little more than a landfill of broken ideas. political types indulge in such...

being that you posted it, I assume that's the type of information you consider worthy of worship as opposed to the men and women you asked to fight for you, used up and then betrayed.

reading that crap is warping your mind. you'd be better off with a drug addiction.

i'll just say no to reading or commenting upon it.

but you'll get your proof and on schedule. the solution you couldn't implement yourselves has been done for you.

you're welcome.





edit on 24-6-2012 by michaelbrux because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 07:41 AM
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Yes Ma'am, I couldn't count on you,nobody can.You haven't stopped anyone or anything from plotting to slit your own throat,in fact you clearly revel in the ignorance that your evidence seems to preclude any possible hostility to ever be visited on you at all.We know how ugly things get, we've done it.Yet for all your philosophical debate and support by a deluded hierophant you haven't addressed the core of our purpose and why we are STILL here. Do you think rational debate helped sway the heads of any despot we've known?The core of Eastern governments is always from a position of strength,if they have it they'll have you. None of these facts will sway someone who fails to view the world entity with open eyes.Your Army is dying on a regular basis saving as many lives as it can by doctrine and majority choice,given that they must fight.the decision of war is made by your leadership without us you would be lost.
Last I checked I'm no deity in a church,I don't need that which isn't given by choice.I am a baby boomer.I have a 17" bicep and I never spent a day in a gym.I've been working since I was 16.No one coddled me.I wouldn't have gone to the VA if I hadn't lost much of my ability to breathe.So much so I can no longer work,that should cheer you up.
So spare me your wails of despair and kindly turn your mind to efforts at stopping wars BEFORE they send me and mine instead of blaming us for something we are trying to stop and parading the results of mistakes that are accidental or aberrations.Then we will not need to exist will we?


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posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 07:45 AM
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reply to post by michaelbrux
 


I, personally, never asked you or anyone else to "defend" me. I am an American man, and am armed quite well myself. I don't need anyone defending me.

Having said that, I want to point out that ignoring information that you may disagree with is embracing ignorance. It is also a display of cognitive dissonance. I understand that it is hard wired into the human brain to ignore things that go against its thought processes (cognitive dissonance). But as free thinking men, we can overcome it once we identify it.

If you truly believe your convictions are correct, then read the counter information and make a logic and reason based decision, not an emotional decision. Do you really think it is wise to put guns in the hands of men who are making emotional decisions, and ask them to kill discriminately? Absolutely not, and we have a Wikileaks database detailing what happens when we do this.


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posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by cavtrooper7

So spare me your wails of despair and kindly turn your mind to efforts at stopping wars BEFORE they send me and mine instead of blaming us for something we are trying to stop and parading the results of mistakes that are accidental or aberrations.Then we will not need to exist will we?


So you tried to STOP war by WAGING war?

If firemen used that same philosophy, every house on the block would be ashes by now.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by cavtrooper7

So spare me your wails of despair and kindly turn your mind to efforts at stopping wars BEFORE they send me and mine instead of blaming us for something we are trying to stop and parading the results of mistakes that are accidental or aberrations.Then we will not need to exist will we?


So you tried to STOP war by WAGING war?

If firemen used that same philosophy, every house on the block would be ashes by now.


Yep. The failure continues.

Though I admit it. I actually am feeling genuinely ashamed of myself at this point. Some of the replies have been just that pitiful. If I'd known how far gone my audience really was, I would have recognised that the only morally decent thing to do, would be to leave them in peace.
edit on 24-6-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)





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