No more worship of the troops

I am sure we all know Smedley Butler. If you don't, he is the most decorated soldier in the history of the United States, possessing TWO Medal of Honors to sit along side his Brevet Medal. What does he say about military service in the day of fiat banking, and of his 33 highly decorated years of service?

“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”

Look at the money. This is what your sons and daughters are dying for, not my freedom.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Just because you find a nearly century old example of a benefit of war (and even that is disputed) does not mean that war is a good thing.

I didn't say it was a good thing. But sometimes, it is necessary.

People who say that war is never needed or that we don't have to be strong, they are just plain wrong. If a thug sees a really big fella on the street ... all beefcake ... he won't pick a fight with him to take his wallet. However, if the thug sees a whimpy dude sniffing daisys and sipping an apple martini, oblivious to what is going on around him , well then that lil' fella is going to get nailed.

Stay pumped up ... you won't get hassled. Common sense.

But we don't just "stay pumped up". When was the last time you saw a foreign soldier on US soil without him being here under Visa?

We use war to promote a racket. Ran by banks, enforced by military. It is why Libya, the only nation involved in the Arab Spring, actually involved a violent over throw. They were the only ones not on the Reserve Banking system. Not that i liked Qadaffi, just saying that he was a rebel in his own right.

As a soldier I do not fight for you, or my country but for the guy or girl next to me.. I do not want or need your acknowledgements... I do the job I was born to do and am very good at it.. The only acknowledgement I respect is that off my fellow soldiers.. All this "thanks for your service" nonsense is embarrassing..

I do however expect to be given the entitlements due when leaving the forces..

The countries end of the military covenant.. I.e. Housing, a chance to work, and healthcare if I get injured in war and become disabled... I do not expect to be spat on either, as this will result in a hospital visit for the spitter...

In other words.. Love us, hate us, I dont care...

Just dont get in my face.....

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Again speaking as one who fought in one,You are correct war is a mistake that should never happen and you are also correct about our being one(although the spiritual thing is applicable as well).Your analogy is able to be interpreted as I had done as well,just because your conclusion to support your point was twisted to support my point was ,in fact the reason I spoke of the argument being circular. My generation screwed up,We trusted that our leadership had the same moral compasses we did.Can you imagine our horror when we saw how our acts had been for corporate shills? Since right after WWII these guys have had communism to chase and we beat it.only to find we also were corporate mercs.I was in a worse trap than most I grew up in a martial family,I WAS spanked as a child ,thank God.I recall saying the "N" word and my father slapped my face so fast a Shaolin monk would have been proud.But my brother watched "Dragnet" and "Adam 12" and I watched "Combat" and "Rat patrol".In these we learned to defend was an honorable thing and it still is.I challenge any and all comers on this because someone has to,before you believe either you must be like me or you must stop people like me.I fought so you could make that choice for yourself.And don't try to follow my footsteps its clearly too difficult for many of you.
But you are letting the real enemy win by thinking Military means perpetuation of war simply by it's very existence. Like gun ownership militaries are the tool not the trigger.And simply not having a military in this world is no longer an option.As the kid from Australia will rather maniacally and cheerfully point out there are some people who are after all of our heads for our passed leadership decisions.

His response threw me off guard, and really changed the way I looked at the Support Your Troops mantra. He said "Why should I be doing that crap work, you know I almost died for you over there". In an instant I spun around and looked him dead in the eye, without thinking, and said "I didn't ask you to join the military, you chose that for yourself. While I respect what you have done for our Country, you will not use that excuse ever again under my supervision to get out of doing work, this is not the Military" and walked off. Was I right in this response?

reply to post by ValentineWiggin


He was obviously a REMF in the rear with the gear.. No REAL soldier would say that!.. We shut up and get on with what we are asked to do...

You should have kicked his self entitled ass home!

reply to post by EvanB


I expect you to recieve your entitlements, too. I am ashamed when i see it not being done.

I attend meetings at the local VA, and support them fully.

The aforementioned Smedley Butler had his own episode of this, and saw the shame when his soldiers were ridden over by a different company just because they were starving in the depression and wanted their war pay. Once a money/property is promised in exchange for an effort, it is due.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


Of course we have perpetual war so long as we have military. You can't fight without soldiers. But that doesn't mean that we should have no military.

But how much of our GDP do we spend on new and novel ways to kill people? Don't you think it may have just gone a little too far? And when was the last time our military was used with positive intentions?

reply to post by DrHammondStoat


Oops!

Originally posted by ValentineWiggin

His response threw me off guard, and really changed the way I looked at the Support Your Troops mantra. He said "Why should I be doing that crap work, you know I almost died for you over there". In an instant I spun around and looked him dead in the eye, without thinking, and said "I didn't ask you to join the military, you chose that for yourself. While I respect what you have done for our Country, you will not use that excuse ever again under my supervision to get out of doing work, this is not the Military" and walked off.

You were totally correct in dressing him down. You probably reminded him of one of his Sergeants from his past that he respected. Good for you. You showed true leadership.

After three decades of service I am now a worker bee in the private sector, a job I chose, as well realizing that the company I work for chose me. In my opinion, I had better give them my best, they don't owe me anything.

They pay extremely well for the grunt work I do along with benefits and profit sharing ( and to top it off, they're a non-union business )

reply to post by petrus4


I must be psychic.

I could have sworn that you posted this a few weeks ago.

Oh…wait. You did.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Your arms aren't the reason you are still alive...the things being fought are not defeated with rocks...no matter how fancy the rock is; I suppose after 11 years in Afghanistan this hasn't dawned upon you.

you may not have asked anyone to defend you, but eventually...you would have. but now you don't have to. I hope you enjoy the life you can't create for yourself.

Why should I read things that are not much more than the most recent in a series of overdone cut and paste nonsense? Just because a few sentences got moved around and a different name is given credit for the contents does not make it original, its not hot or trending information.

and it still doesn't change the fact that the military doesn't start or win wars; politicians and the general population does. the military just goes to far off places to get shot at all day, while the people that sent them there sit around and debate the situation without end.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

That depends on what you want us to do.If you want to stick my butt in a foreign country trying to execute an undefined mission after a non national enemy,that takes adaptation into the extreme.Now add to that our resources (even though big money has them under a strangle hold) which are great and becoming more valuable.You have to stop large and capable forces from invading.That costs money.But also remember,the UN wants us for it's world police they are backed by international old money brokers.and our dippy leadership never strains that leash.When I was in an armor unit they pulled an engine from an M60 tank and drained the oil so they could blow it out by running it and deliberately destroyed it so they could justify next years mechanical budget.That kind of BS doesn't fly either.Look at the Bradley...a piece of garbage that was way too costly and isn't doing what it was supposed to do.It isn't a personnel carrier and is sure as hell isn't a good reconaissance vehicle.That was a case of incompetence as well so they called it an infantry fighting vehicle.
I do however very strongly believe in air dominance and orbital dominance which is still largely secret.They are trying to downsize as you know. The idea is to replace numbers with tech as it has worked so far.


As a side note I do hope you notice there aren't any black and white answers I give you,just the information I know.I also see the future stepping away from conflict as long as there are no globalists stopping the flow of information.Suddenly that kid from pakistan who was standing next to the Al Quaida member at their wedding is a face we all see.But I didn't target that guy.Obama did
As to the good we do the news doesn't report good things it isn't as good a story:
www.army.mil...

reply to post by michaelbrux


So, to make sure i am clear...your position is that men who have a choice of whether or not they will join the military do not make war possible by choosing to go off and trade bullets with people on another continent?

If that is correct, how long did it take you to forfeit your individuality, that cornerstone of American culture?

Again, Smedley Butler has it nailed down:

My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of the higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

I think my intellect is intact as is my humanity I have disobeyed orders successfully.Mr Butler was a man who trusted authority as that was what we believed,I have already stated as such.
War exists therefore the military must too exist. Without war no military is necessary.War came first.So stop all war before they are fought and people like me will be happy not to fight as we would't know to do so.Our military power is a huge deterrent to a far more horrendous possibility of greater bloodshed.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


war is multifaceted. military operations is a single facet of war. so no, the people that freely chose to go to the military have nothing to do with starting the war or enabling it. in addition to this, they are the last to know the war has ended...

one does not have to join the military to conduct a campaign of war. one doesn't need guns to fight a war.

i think the problem is that the popular notion of what war is has been reduced to almost non-understanding. military is the scapegoat, i guess.

some kid goes to the army, most likely never sees combat, learns some skills and then returns home and gets a job with the local fire department...but according to some here...this is horrible.

reply to post by michaelbrux


No one says its a bad thing. Learning new skills and making yourself better is always, always good.

But if there were no participants, would there still be war? Or would old men have to find news ways to leverage and connive?

Some reading for those wanting additional information on how war is racket:

50 Years Later Eisenhowers Warning Rings True On Military Profits

Dimensional Detective is among the top posters on this forum, and authored a thought provoking thread.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
Some of you military bashers need to put your heads on straight.

Fact: Politicians and Lawmakers and by extension the people that elected them are responsible for the wars.

the soldiers that fight in them do what is asked of them and are not capable starting a war;

Yes, mindless following of orders is never the fault of those who mindlessly follow, right?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


sorry to tell you, but I've learned a terrible secret over the last 6.5 years. i won't go into what that secret is, but I will tell you that even if there were no military there will be wars...even these threads, where people debate and exchange ideas is a type of warfare; psychological, social and cultural and in many ways a type far more efficient and effective than what would be called traditional.

i'm not saying there are not people in this world that consider war to be an opportunity to make some money...that much is obvious. I see all the advertisements, but ultimately, war is very real and they are and will be fought for very real reasons.

reply to post by stanguilles7


Treat the cause, not the symptom...

maybe we shouldn't worship science, specifically chemistry, since chemists are producing all the hot new designer drugs; which caused far more deaths that wars. 37,485 drug related deaths 2009; which is just higher than traffic deaths...maybe we should stop producing drivers while we're trying to save lives.

everytime I have a conversation like this....where it leads is always to the same place. NOTHINGNESS.

believe in nothing, embrace nothing, become nothing...