Syria Shoots Down Turkish Jet, Turkish Navy Massing, Article 4 NATO Treaty Invoked...

According to Damascus, it was downed with AAA gun fire 1km off shore. Here is an updated article, with flight path of the aircraft.

theaviationist.com...

As i stated within another topic on this, this may not be the occurrence that causes attack, though, this is a significant step towards the goal, this event has meaning, regardless if it's now, or later

If they took it down with gunfire at a range of 1000m, the aircraft must have been violating Syrian airspace for some time.

A QF-4 drone makes even more sense to me now.....What pilot in his right mind would approach to within 1Km of a 'hostile coastline' while down on the deck and travelling at high speed, wihout expecting to be fired on?

This is a probe/provocation.....I doubt the pilots will be found because I doubt there ever were any.

Be interesting to see what happens.....Hope it's not WWIII!

reply to post by squarehead666


Except we know what the aircraft was, and it requires pilots.

Do we?

See my previous post re: QF-4 Drone.....It's a pilotless Phantom.

The QF-4 is a remotely controlled target, which simulates enemy aircraft maneuvers. The drone can be flown by remote control or with a safety pilot to monitor its performance. The drone is flown unmanned when missiles are fired at it, and only in specific over-water airspace authorized for unmanned flight. When flown unmanned, an explosive device is placed in the QF-4 to destroy the aircraft if it inadvertently becomes uncontrollable.

The QF-4 is equipped to carry electronic and infrared countermeasures to fully evaluate fighters and weapons flown and fired against it. Full-scale drone aircraft can be flown totally by computer using the Gulf Range Drone Control System, or controlled manually during takeoff and landing using a mobile control station located at the drone runway. As a safety precaution, a chase plane trails the drone during critical periods of flight.

To all intents and purposes this would appear to be an RF-4 and it could do all the same things, plus safely gather data from an active Syrian fire control radar (the one that guided the shootdown).

A new version of what happened to the photo-reconnaissance aircraft Turkish RF-4E comes to rock the waters if given a new dimension to the case of breaking the the Syrian air defense.

Specifically, the Turks are said to have entrusted the mission of spying activities of the Cypriot National Guard in the exercise "Demetra", a massive Regular Exercise After Troop (TAMS) which lasts four days. Having started on June 21 ends today. The exercise involving large numbers of reservists and aims to control the logistical system of the National Guard.

The Turkish aircraft reportedly flew over Cyprus while participating units went out of their camps and headed to the dispersal areas. Assessment of the Greek side is that the aim was to photograph the movement of National Guard units to gather information on the routes to be followed for instance by comparing it with the same last year as part of the exercise.

Under reportedly flew and Turkish aircraft type CN-235, equipped with jamming systems and monitoring, which was located and was ordered by the General Staff of National Guard (GEEF) for complete wireless silence and protection systems activated jamming.

Leaving the area, the Turkish RF-4E moved east to the point where the tangent to the Syrian Cypriot FIR was lost from radar. Some time later sail from Famagusta Turkish torpedo boats, and Turkish aircraft were beginning to make their appearance in the Turks and asked permission from the Syrians to begin search and rescue (SAR).

If this scenario is true, then it is likely you said Turkish President Abdullah Gul to be true, at least to a degree. The Turkish president said yesterday that the Turkish aircraft may be violated "a moment" the Syrian airspace because of its high speed. But the more likely it is another so that by the way, the Turks had been ordered to "take his turn openly" in a show of force against Syria's Assad.

Thus, if all parties wish to shed light on the track log of the aircraft radar would give us the answers we seek. If the course proves that Turkish aircraft had the road to Turkey and "cut path" violating marginally, on the outskirts, the Syrian airspace, although the violation is not contested, but in any case it is an overreaction of the Syrian air defense.

This is attributable to Turkey, that intention in violation of Syrian airspace in order to send a message to Assad regime could possibly be true ... the reverse: that the Syrians have shown "excessive zeal" and that the aircraft was not just a km from the coast as it was said, but about 13 km as other sources claim now. The aim was to send a decisive message to those who apergazontai the collapse of the Assad regime, although the apparent effort to defuse the tension that made the final hours rather militate for this. Unless the army is uncontrollable ...

i cant believe no one has blamed Israel yet,,,

hey Ackmed,,,its Israel flag on tail,,
bet u a camel u cant hit it,,,


oopppss.
hey where is my Camel???

lol
u never know.

Sounds to me like the ATS warmongers-oops i mean folks who all clamor for peace May not be getting what they want with this recent act since it wont be leading to any fighting. Sorry!!!

Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by EvanB

 

Turkish warplane downed by Syria 'may have crossed border'

Turkey's President, Abdullah Gul, has said the Turkish fighter jet shot down by Syria's air defence forces on Friday may have violated Syrian airspace.

Hopefully thats the key factor which will prevent escalation.

Peace

Oh dear... the Turkish foreign minister is now say that the plane was in international air space...

Originally posted by Muckster

Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by EvanB

 

Turkish warplane downed by Syria 'may have crossed border'

Turkey's President, Abdullah Gul, has said the Turkish fighter jet shot down by Syria's air defence forces on Friday may have violated Syrian airspace.

Hopefully thats the key factor which will prevent escalation.

Peace

Oh dear... the Turkish foreign minister is now say that the plane was in international air space...

Originally posted by ringht_n_wrong

Yep.....So...........it seems like the F-4 was shot in international airspace, according to Turkey.

Turkey on Sunday accused Syria of shooting down one of its warplanes in international airspace, as a watchdog said the Damascus regime suffered new setbacks and violence reached new heights.
"According to our conclusions, our plane was shot down in international airspace, 13 nautical miles from Syria," Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told TRT television.

SOURCE

reply to post by princeofpeace


You either have some sort of narcissistic delusion of omniscience, or you are simply trolling because you enjoy the attention you get when sensible people take time from their day to respond to your idiotic claims.

ATSers aren't the warmongers - we simply observe and comment upon what the warmongers are up to. I call troll, and won't respond to you any more - I advise other members not to get drawn into POP's little games.

reply to post by ringht_n_wrong


Surely the Turks will now invoke article 5?

Watching and waiting, hoping and praying...

Nato spokeswoman Oana Lungescu said the North Atlantic Council, the principal political decision-making body within the military alliance, would meet in Brussels on Tuesday to discuss the incident.

"Turkey has requested consultations under Article 4 of Nato’s founding Washington Treaty,” she told Reuters

link
worldnews.msnbc.msn.com...?ocid=twitter

Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment

ATSers aren't the warmongers - we simply observe and comment upon what the warmongers are up to. I call troll, and won't respond to you any more - I advise other members not to get drawn into POP's little games.

Maybe not all, but I have noticed a pretty large crowd on here lately that seem to want war. Responses like "I hope China sinks every US ship that goes near their coast." Or things to that effect that seem to WANT WWIII to be here already.

In regards to this, Turkey and Syria are handling things very well in my opinion. Turkey admitted that the aircraft violated Syrian airspace, Syria apologized on Turkish television, and neither side is rushing into anything. Personally I believe that if we were going to see an attack by Turkey over something like this it would have happened already. Syria has shelled Turkish territory, and killed Turkish soldiers prior to this incident. I PERSONALLY don't believe that this will lead to a war between the two (emphasis on this being my opinion only).

Im holidaying in Turkey at the moment do you think my sun factor 50 and my new Oakley Shades will protect me from the bright flashes ?

Originally posted by PatriotsPride

Nato spokeswoman Oana Lungescu said the North Atlantic Council, the principal political decision-making body within the military alliance, would meet in Brussels on Tuesday to discuss the incident.

"Turkey has requested consultations under Article 4 of Nato’s founding Washington Treaty,” she told Reuters

link
worldnews.msnbc.msn.com...?ocid=twitter

Here we go....................

reply to post by EvanB


It's consultations as to what assurances that NATO will give Turkey IF they get into a fight with Syria. Why does that automatically mean they're going to war? Both sides are still talking to each other, and until the shooting (if any) actually starts, we can't sit here saying "oh this is it!"

reply to post by EvanB


its looking that way..

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by EvanB

 

It's consultations as to what assurances that NATO will give Turkey IF they get into a fight with Syria. Why does that automatically mean they're going to war? Both sides are still talking to each other, and until the shooting (if any) actually starts, we can't sit here saying "oh this is it!"

Article 4 has been Invoked... It is a consultation... However it is a consultation of NATO military officials.. A council of war if you will, and the next stage to article 5 being invoked...

I hope it turns out to be what you say... But this is unprecedented... And hardware is on the move...

Originally posted by Zaphod58
According to Damascus, it was downed with AAA gun fire 1km off shore.

There seems to be contradictory claims. According to Turkey the aircraft was shot down 13 nm from Syria, which is a bit further than “1 km off shore”.

"According to our conclusions, our plane was shot down in international airspace, 13 nautical miles (24km) from Syria," he said.

Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said the aircraft was unarmed, and on a routine training mission.

According to international law, a country's airspace extends 12 nautical miles (22.2km) from its coastline, corresponding with its territorial waters.

Source www.bbc.co.uk...

Nothing will come of this. Turkey will go through the motions and have a cup of tea with NATO peers. NATO will issue a stern warning. Syria will tremble in private. The last thing Syria wants is to antagonise Turkey and NATO.

Regards