Falkland Islands to hold referendum on sovereignty

reply to post by Germanicus


China will never be the sole "superpower." They are creating the biggest housing bubble that history has ever seen. There are entire cities (complete with the world's largest shopping mall which is mostly empty) that sit empty because noone can afford to live in the apartments, yet they still keep building to artificially inflate their GDP. China is worse off than we are. Did you not know that around 40% of all manufacturing companies in China are owned by foreign corporations? I guess you didnt. Do more research before jumping to conclusions.

reply to post by NightFlyer96

The British restored their base at Port Egmont. Although the whole question of sovereignty was simply sidestepped, a source of future trouble. An appropriate verdict on the little fracas was passed by Samuel Johnson in his pamphlet Thoughts on the late Transactions Respecting Falkland's Island[8], looking at the British problem in holding such remote islands against a hostile mainland, "...a colony that could never become independent, for it could never be able to maintain itself."

20 May 1776 the British forces under the command of Lt. Clayton formally took their leave of Port Egmont, while leaving a plaque asserting Britain's continuing sovereignty over the islands

1811, Spain left behind a plaque proclaiming her sovereignty.

6 November 1820, Jewett raised the flag of the United Provinces of the River Plate (a predecessor of modern-day Argentina) and claimed possession of the islands.


Let's see, laying claim to something, is not just as simple as hanging a plaque is it or flag,

USS Lexington raid

In 1831, Vernet attempted to assert his monopoly on seal hunting rights. This led him to capture the American ships Harriet, Superior and Breakwater. As a reprisal, the United States consul in Buenos Aires sent Captain Silas Duncan of the USS Lexington to recover the confiscated property. After finding what he considered proof that at least four American fishing ships had been captured, plundered, and even outfitted for war, Duncan took seven prisoners aboard the Lexington and charged them with piracy.

Also taken on board, Duncan reported, "were the whole of the (Falklands') population consisting of about forty persons, with the exception of some 'gauchos', or cowboys who were encamped in the interior." The group, principally German citizens from Buenos Aires, "appeared greatly rejoiced at the opportunity thus presented of removing with their families from a desolate region where the climate is always cold and cheerless and the soil extremely unproductive". However, about 24 people did remain on the island, mainly gauchos and several Charrua Indians, who continued to trade on Vernet's account.

Measures were taken against the settlement, the log of the Lexington reports destruction of arms and a powder store, while settlers remaining later said that there was great damage to private property.[16] Towards the end of his life, Luis Vernet authorised his sons to claim on his behalf for his losses stemming from the raid. In the case lodged against the US Government for compensation, rejected by the US Government of President Cleveland in 1885, Vernet stated that the settlement was destroyed.[17]

Attempted establishment of a penal colony

In the aftermath of the Lexington incident, Major Esteban Mestivier was commissioned by the Buenos Aires government to set up a penal colony. He arrived at his destination on 15 November 1832 but his soldiers mutinied and killed him. Lt. Col. José María Pinedo quelled the rebellion and took charge of the settlement.

British return
Main article: Re-establishment of British rule on the Falklands (1833)
A watercolour by HMS Beagle's draughtsman, Conrad Martens. Painted during the survey of Tierra del Fuego, it depicts the Beagle being hailed by native Fuegians. The Beagle visited the Falklands in 1834, and a Fuegian "mission" was later planted on Keppel Island in the west of the Falklands

The Argentinian assertions of sovereignty provided the spur for Britain to send a naval task force in order to finally and permanently return to the islands.

Lt Henry Smith was installed as the first British resident in January 1834.

The British Crown reneged on promises and refused to recognise rights granted by Captain Onslow at the time of the reoccupation Eventually, after travelling to London, Vernet received paltry compensation for horses shipped to Port Louis many years before.[13] G.T. Whittington obtained a concession of 6,400 acres (26 km2) from Vernet that he later exploited with the formation of the Falkland Islands Commercial Fishery and Agricultural Association

. In May 1840, the British Government made the decision to colonise the Falkland Islands.

. In 1971, following secret talks between the two Governments (and without consulting the islanders), the communications agreement was signed.

Diplomatic relations between Britain and Argentina were broken but resumed in 1976

As well as the military build-up, the UK also passed the British Nationality (Falkland Islands) Act 1983 which granted full British citizenship to the islanders.

increase in the British garrison,Royal Navy ship allegedly carrying tactical nuclear weapons )... four Vanguard class submarines, which were armed with Trident missiles.

From what I understand they don't want to be under Argentina or British Rule
There's oil there, they can do fairly good on their own, the Brits will just rob them blind.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I think a more accurate description would be that they wish to be an independent protectorate of the UK.

“This has no value at all since Argentina rejects the possibility of self-determination for an implanted population, such is the implanted British population in the Malvinas”, said Guillermo Carmona, chair of Argentina’s Lower House Foreign Affairs Committee.

“With a media stunt such as holding a referendum, which is an illegitimate exercise of self determination from the Islanders and which Argentina and the international community do not recognize, the UK government wants to downplay the advances of Argentina claim”, added Carmona.

en.mercopress.com...

"An illegitimate exercise of self determination."

Originally posted by Soshh

“This has no value at all since Argentina rejects the possibility of self-determination for an implanted population, such is the implanted British population in the Malvinas”, said Guillermo Carmona, chair of Argentina’s Lower House Foreign Affairs Committee.

“With a media stunt such as holding a referendum, which is an illegitimate exercise of self determination from the Islanders and which Argentina and the international community do not recognize, the UK government wants to downplay the advances of Argentina claim”, added Carmona.

en.mercopress.com...

"An illegitimate exercise of self determination."

Certainly not what i want but maybe conflict will be the only way to settle this once and for all. Seeing as Argentina will not listen to the will of the inhabitants. Maybe we should claim Patagonia and say Argentina has implanted a population so has no legal basis to any objections.

Basically, two can play that game.......

whre the falklanders given the option of their own independence
from brittish rule ?

I think its only fair they get to declare their own soverignty

Originally posted by Germanicus
It will not matter soon.

The Imperial Empire is almost dead.

Imperial military footholes will not matter. England wants all that oil. I dont think the Chinese will allow them to have it when they are sole superpower very soon.

They do not have a large enough population to justify self determination or lay claim anyway. This is nothing more than an english publicity stunt.

Change the word England to Argentina and your comments make just as much sense. You do see the irony of Argentina accusing England of being colonialists by demanding that they 'own' the Falklands don't you? You don't think that oil plays any part in the Argentine claim by any chance do you?

From PMQ's today,

David Cameron told MPs during Prime Minister's Questions that the step to demonstrate they believe in self-determination was an "important" one, and he accused Argentina of "continually trying to hide this argument and pretend the views of the Falkland Islanders don't matter".

His comments came as Nigel Adams, Tory MP for Selby and Ainsty, asked about the status of possible loans to Argentina. Mr Adams said: "As we remember those who fell 30 years ago during the Falklands War, Argentina continues to dispute British sovereignty over those islands. "Yet Argentina also continues to receive loans worth billions of pounds from the World Bank of which British taxpayers are a major shareholder. "Will the Prime Minister join President Obama in instructing his officials to vote against any more such loans to Argentina?"

Mr Cameron replied: "I think he makes an important point. "No British taxpayers' money is spent on World Bank loans to Argentina, I think that is an important point.

www.google.com...

To me that seems like a ridiculous point from Adams. I doubt the World Bank would take any heed of complaints from the UK if indeed it could be proven that the UK is funding any loans provided to the Argentinians.

Either way, that is not diplomacy, just resorting to school yard bullying, which we have accused the Argentinians of over the Falklands.

reply to post by Flavian

It is certainly a funny position for them to take, considering that Argentina consists mainly of 'implants'. It may surprise some people to learn that Kirchner, Timerman and Zylberberg are not indiginous surnames..

Of course this is the response that we had counted on. They dismiss the concept of self determination and then complain about transplants stealing 'their' oil. It isn't good PR. The referendum will give us a solid basis on which to reject any Argentine demands. It also pisses them off immensely which is always good fun.

Originally posted by Germanicus

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by Germanicus

 

Who did we steal it off? the Argies? heck they didn't even exist when we found it and started living there.

You stole it from the indiginous people. It was only a very small group. But still.

I'm sure you have already been corrected on this, but there were no idiginous people on the Islands, where do you keep getting this notion from?

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


Actually, this point is based in fact. Argentina is currently and consistently defaulting on over $40 billion in loans. Obama raised this with the Paris Club earlier this year, saying why should Argentina be receiving anything when they are consistently defaulting. He was actively seeking support for stopping financial support to Argentina.

Even more ironic, considering the rhetoric employed by Kirchner, Barclays overseas the loans to Argentina for the Paris Club. Basically, all smoke and mirrors from Kirchner regarding the Falklands.

Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by Freeborn

 

There was no-one there to ethnically cleanse.

You can obviously type unless someone is doing it for you. So I am guessing you can read. Please read my link. The argentinians were clearly there in Las Malvinas when the English inveded and did their ethnic cleansing. The first houses were built by Argentinian hands. So.....what the heck do you mean there was "no-one there"?

You really aren't getting this are you? Every link that has some element of historical truth completely disputes the link you have provided because that link is wrong. Do you not understand the nation of Argentina did not exist when the Islands were first populated? Are you really, really so uneducated but willing to argue?

The Falkland Islands are a pawn in the scramble for resources. When Argentina is as powerful as China, England will hand the islands back with a big toothy grin, as they did with Hong Kong.

reply to post by Flavian

Actually, this point is based in fact. Argentina is currently and consistently defaulting on over $40 billion in loans

Do you know who the $40 billion loans are owed to?

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


Yes, global financial institutions such as Goldman Sachs, Barclays Capita, etc. The usual players to be fair. However, to be more specific, the Paris Club is an association of financiers from 19 of the worlds largest economies. They generally provide funding when IMF options have run out and credit cannot be obtained elsewhere. Therefore, in that respect, Argentina is taking a huge gamble by not playing ball on the outstanding loans. If action is taken, there are no other financial avenues left open. That also includes China, as a member of the Paris Club. In other words, financially Argentina would be totally isolated (alongside places like North Korea).

reply to post by Flavian


Right, but the point from the MP was on whether any World Bank loans to Argentina had included British taxpayer money which apparently it hasn't.

The Argentinians also defaulted on an IMF loan at the turn of this millennium, can hardly blame them for that though.

Same old story these islands they have been under britiah rule since before argentina was even a nation. Here is an idea why dont the argies give back that land to the natives same with all of south america. Argentina almost got them back if it wasnt for a drunk general charging in with an invasion now its tough. The argentinian government should look after its own first, with inflation through the roof and unemployment and crime going up and corruption is just as high as in undeveloped countries. Let the falklanders decide, personally I think they should have complete independence but remain with UK for defence and trade etc. Argentina has no army so no fear of another invasion and I dont know what planet people are on talking about China as if they are going to take over the world, you silly kids take it from someone who has been around, you best hope that they never do take over or God help us all.

It's their right.
Who's the country claiming the island, Argentina who formed in 1853?
People's right to self determination should be respected, if not, let's go to war.
That's one thing I'd fight and die for.
The same thing is happening in Gibraltar.

Let the people decide their future.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Did not read into that far, be good guise, to hand a new flag of fake independence adn liberation, thinking you are gaining sovereignty and turn up and get raped even worse by the King. in the long run and all the mineral stolen and still be stuck as colony of the empire...

Wonder if Argentina would play along with that one, ...doubt it, unless they have large share of private property owners and investors...as land has been sold and title of properties, the landowners now are mainly from the Kingdom, and taxes still be paid to the Crown, one way or another...

If Argentina is deemed the rightful owner, then doubt the King and Queen will accept that result, unless there is some kind of fix in.

Give the Crown their cut and concessions rights and taxes or no deal...

To avoid bloodshed, the Crown will use cover tactics, buy out Argentina and Presidency and sign over all rights and treaty that satisfies the crown must be the plan in the works.