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Falkland Islands to hold referendum on sovereignty

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posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


Stole the Island of who? When we colonised it Argentina didn't even exist and when they did come into being, they spent a great portion of the 19th century wiping out the indigenous population of Patagonia so they could steal land for colonisation.




posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by Germanicus
 


Stole the Island of who? When we colonised it Argentina didn't even exist and when they did come into being, they spent a great portion of the 19th century wiping out the indigenous population of Patagonia so they could steal land for colonisation.



Shush! Facts just get in the way of a good rant!



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


Your link is wrong. The first British settlement was in the 18th century, 1766 to be precise, long before Argentina ever existed. We were expelled by Spaniards, who then left themselves. Both sides kept their claim, but we were the only ones to actually set-up a permanent settlement in the 19th century.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by mailboxuser2009
This referendum is already decided. What is the point to ask british citizens whether they want to belong to the uk or to the economically broken third world country called Argentina?

Nevertheless, the islands are within the territorial waters of Argentina and that should be enough to end this dispute.


The point? It's about sending a message to the UN with regards to "self-determination", even though this is like the 3rd vote on the subject in 50 years. The Argies just don't listen and are hypocritical to the extreme, especially after what they did to the Patagonian natives.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by Peruvianmonk
 


Sovereignty? The whole islands could be crammed into a single pub. I suppose it'd be interesting living in a country where you know everyones name.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by Kram09
Yes but the only reason they are doing this referendum is because the government is confident of the result. Yes this is all great for democracy bla bla bla....but when it comes to a referendum on the EU or Scotland leaving the Union it's a whole other story!


The EU referendum aside, the Scottish one the Government is confident of the result, they would have it tomorrow if they could. It is the SNP holding up the vote as they know they can't win it.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 




No offence but that is the history of a capitalist lemming. History is more than capitalist wiki and capitalist history books.


And neither is history some pinko, anti-UK, anti-colonialist bollocks.

Of course the 29 people who comprised the penal colony but are now being portrayed as a settlement were forcibly ejected.
For Argentina to base their whole claim on such an event is tenuous at best and can only be politely described as clutching at straws.

But they were not ethnically cleansed - and using that term is deliberate sensationalism and an attempt to play on people's emotions in an effort to further a blatant exaggeration originally intended to further an anti-UK agenda and bigotry.



.....and the Argentinians were expelled by the English.


The person in charge was an Irishman.



Sometimes the political climate does not allow you to speak your mind in the Imperial Empire. Now that capitalism is on its death bad, its time to speak up again.


No-one has ever attempted to prevent me from voicing my opinion on anything, anywhere.
And you know that, you are deliberately trying to be provocative to further your ridiculous arguement.

How you can advocate socialism and condemn colonialism and capitalism etc and then support Kirchner and Argentina, which is a far more colonial entity than the UK, whinge on about the alleged 'ethnic cleansing' of 29 prisoners and their warders nearly 200 years ago whilst supporting the denial of the basic human right of self-determination to over 3000 people today.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Peruvianmonk
 


Sovereignty? The whole islands could be crammed into a single pub. I suppose it'd be interesting living in a country where you know everyones name.


That must be a bloody big pub then! What kind of beer does it sell?



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


That's a big pub!

There are around 3,000 non military inhabitants with another 1,500 or so British Forces personnel



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by Kram09
 




....but when it comes to a referendum on the EU or Scotland leaving the Union it's a whole other story!


Yes, I agree - we should have a referendum on continued membership of the EU and an English Parliament.....but you do know that the Scots are having a referendum on Independance don't you?



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by peck420

Originally posted by mailboxuser2009
Nevertheless, the islands are within the territorial waters of Argentina and that should be enough to end this dispute.


Falkland Islands are no where near Argentina's territorial waters.

Falkland Islands are around 300 miles off the Argentinian coast.

Territorial waters end at 14 miles (12 nm).
Contiguous Zone ends at 28 miles (24 nm).
Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) ends at 230 miles (200nm).


They also claim South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands; ~2000km away.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by Germanicus


Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by Germanicus
 




I have a problem with England thinking they can suck oil from a part of the world that is not anywhere near them.


Do you also have a problem with Iraqi oil and Americans, or the Americans taking oil from Nigeria or European countries taking oil from Middle eastern countries?

Or is it specifically the oil situation in the Falklands that irks you?
edit on 12-6-2012 by mr-lizard because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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You are right. The island is +/- 100km away from the territorial waters. What a silly mistake I made.

But how far is it from England? And why the argentineans were dejected from the island in 1833 after a hiatus of 22 years without claims from England, France or Spain over it?

Anyway, I wish the referendum result will be respected by both nations.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by mailboxuser2009
 


Proximity has bog all to do with anything. Our claim is far, far older and we maintained our claim from the 1766 colony when the SPanish forced us out. The Spanish relinquished their claim after the Nootka convention, leaving ours as valid.

What about the US and Hawaii?

What about Russia and Siberia (they colonised that) and Sakhalin?

France and French Guyana?

Spain and their Morrocan "enclaves"

The world is full of examples of extra territorial claims, counter claims etc. Singling out the Falklands and ignoring the rest isn't good solid ground to base a debate on.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by mailboxuser2009
 




But how far is it from England?


Quite some way away, so what.

How far away from the rest of the USA is Alaska or Hawaii?



And why the argentineans were dejected from the island in 1833 after a hiatus of 22 years without claims from England, France or Spain over it?


It was actually about 18 months after the US raid destroyed the settlement - the UK had never given up it's claim.



Anyway, I wish the referendum result will be respected by both nations.



As indeed do I - unfortunately I doubt it though.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by Peruvianmonk

This is what I along with many others have argued for for a while now. It will of course be a near unanimous declaration of intention to stay under British rule.

The Argentinians will argue, you suspect, that this is an attempt to apply a coat a veneer over a clear imperial colonial outpost and may or may not have a point.


the argies are just pissed that they can't take over the citizens of another country and thus do a bit of their own imperialism.

Let's be clear about this - the Falkland Islands have NEVER been part of Argentina.

"Argentinian" settlers & fishers (ie those from hte Sth american Mainland from various ex colonies such as the United Provinces of the river Plate) there in the 1820's sought British permission, and most of the settlers chose to stay voluntarily when the British peacefully re-established their rule in 1833 - of the genuine 33 settlers only 4 decided to leave.

there have never been any "native" occupants, and the British have since maintained a constant presence since 1830.

the Argentinian claim is just a grab for the economic resources fully as colonial as their putative complaints againt the Brits, and dressed up in emotive nationalistic fervour to try to prevent any rational assessment.

This will be proved when they continue to deny the Islanders the right to self determination.
edit on 12-6-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by stumason
 


It is a big pub! It has outdoor seating. A nice little patio with a cute little fireplace.

I agree Argentina has absolutely no legitimate claim to the territory, and even if they did there is nothing they can do about it. It still seems silly to me to squabble over barren islands in the middle of nowhere.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by mailboxuser2009


And why the argentineans were dejected from the island in 1833 after a hiatus of 22 years without claims from England, France or Spain over it?


It was actually about 18 months after the US raid destroyed the settlement - the UK had never given up it's claim.


and they were not ejected - they were given a free choice to stay or go (although apparently encouraged to stay!), and most chose to stay under British rule.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 




How far away from the rest of the USA is Alaska or Hawaii?


Well Alaska is only 3hr flight from where I live to anchorage, but if there was an airport at it's lowest point it'd be maybe 30-45mins.

Hawaii is a good example though. Not only is it far away, in the middle of nowhere, but unlike the Falklands it was a legitimate Kingdom (something not taught in our schools). We disposed of the Monarchy, subjected the people and converted it into a military settlement.

There are numerous other examples for the USA as well, such as Puerto Rico which is a US Territory, Guam and numerous other islands in the Pacific.



posted on Jun, 12 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


Oh germanicus 9/10 times i disagree with you. Yet another time im afraid.

And china can't do # but that for another thread!




Also wasn't the oil just a fairly recent discovery? Even before that British were very supportive on the islanders. I mean there was that conflict...
edit on 12-6-2012 by Bixxi3 because: (no reason given)



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