NASA secret files

Originally posted by JimOberg
I've known and worked with Story Musgrave for thirty years. When his STS-80 mission 'dot circle' UFO got to be the darling of the internet, I did a technical report on it and sent him a copy. He authorized me to quote his reply:

From: "Story Musgrave" To:

Originally posted by draco49
Oh I'm sure you'll do your best to discredit him, like you've done in the past. But when I look at him and his background, and then I look at you and your background, you definitely come up wanting. No way am I going to take the word of a career debunker over a decorated NASA ScO.

So, to validate the stories from Clark McClelland, you rely on -- other stories about Clark McClelland?

How convenient.

McClelland's stories include the claim that Musgrave encountered an 8-foot space alien aboard a shuttle mission, and that he -- McClelland -- saw the whole meeting on a secret TV channel at Cape Canaveral.

Musgrave has stated plainly that he never encountered any evidence of space aliens or heard of any such stories from his fellow astronauts.

McClelland, sadly, has wound up in desperate financial straits and on his website begs for donations and offers a book of space secrets for sale. By all means, please send him some of your money as a humanitarian gesture and as gratitude for his stories.

He never got into the SCO program, as he claimed, but according to press reports was terminated during the hiring process over some 'problems' with his application for a security clearance.

UFO Folklore Center Ex-NASA Worker Says Space Agency Knows About UFOs
By: Michael Lindemann // From CNI News: July 1999
www.oocities.com...

By 1990, he worked directly for the space agency in the shuttle program.
He was then training to become a Spacecraft Operator (ScO), meaning he would have hands-on responsibility for space shuttle maintenance and ground operations. His trainer was shuttle ScO senior specialist Dennis Bestwick.
"I'm not at liberty to say a lot" about McClelland's dismissal, Bestwick told CNI News. "His work was fine, but something in his security check didn't quite check out. Nothing illegal, but something about the dates didn't match. You need a secret clearance," he said. It could have been as simple as a clerical error in McClelland's records, Bestwick conceded.
But whatever it was, McClelland lost his clearance and was subsequently dismissed from the shuttle program.

The 'business card' that he distributes showing that job title actually uses his personal post office box in Orlando.

See the "official" card here:
thelivingmoon.com...

Mr. Stan Friedman was asked if McClelland's stories were credible and made this reply:

From: Stan Friedman
To:
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:54:40 -0300

I knew Clark McClelland years ago. Within the last few years I
did some detailed checking on his claimed background, because he
had claimed that von Braun had told him he knew all about
Roswell. While von Braun may well have known about Roswell (he
was stationed at Fort Bliss in 1947 and working at White Sands),
I found no reason to believe Clark's comments. He had
substantially "enhanced" his background in both Pittsburgh and
Florida! This has, of course, happened with regard to Bob Lazar,
William Spaulding, Michael Wolf Kruvant, someone who almost
became the football coach at Notre Dame, etc, ad nauseum.. I
would place these quotes in my gray basket, at best, unless
somebody can find better sources than McClelland.

Stan Friedman

An example of the kinds of tales ["I was a pilot in Vietnam"] he told
visitors is found in this email from Paola Harris:

Re: McClelland
Date: 11/3/01 1:37:50 AM Central Standard Time
From: [email protected] (Paola Harris)
To: [email protected]

There is much I CANNOT talk about here but McClelland was a navy pilot and
it seems in the olden days of EARLY Cape Canaveral, there was a Colonel who
chose the men who could work there. McClelland designed the orbitor for the
moon and even the Eagle Patch. His father worked at the Cape!

Now if you go to the website and read the testimonials, you will see how
important he was. He has his ground crew ASTRONAUT suit on. He was in
charge of the mechanics but was an ex pilot who had an accident in Viet Nam.
His story is complicated ...

Hope this helps! Paola

There is also a lot of internal evidence in McClelland's stories that argue against them being worthy of automatic trust.

One story, in which McClelland claims to have had a personal conversation with Wernher von Braun about UFO secrets, appears to be a complete rip-off of a story in one of Tim Good's books, with McClelland inserting himself into the story, Other stories describe technical details of orbital flight and space tracking capabilities that are at variance with every other known description of such systems and processes.

Since McClelland's expertise was brought up to refute Musgrave, and now since McClelland's defender has defaulted on the argument, I'd like to suggest that the most believable account of the original controversy -- the STS-80 videos -- is from one of the direct eyewitnesses, Story Musgrave, confirmed by another crewman, Tom Jones.

Next question?

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Wait, NASA doesn't believe in aliens? I don't buy that. Why would NASA spend billions of dollars each year to invest in technology to go travel into space in the first place? In looking at these videos, I'm no expert but, it really does look like space junk or debris.

There's so much we don't know about the universe. And so much we aren't meant to know. I think however, that NASA along with the government, (Area 51) know more than they are letting us know.

NASA disproving everything and having no interest in exploring anything is the reason I support their budget cutbacks. Since it seems all they did was spend time which is money on disinfo, I would rather just see NASA shutdown and folded up to be honest.

I would like to see their budget and how they spend money. Never could believe they spend billions on say a tire for example, I mean how much are they spending on disinformation?

Nothing of value is lost.

I don't claim to be an expert in the area of aeronatics but one thing is for sure many of the devices we use in daily life are a direct result of the space program. I don't care if it's private or governmental people who carry on but we need to expand our exploration of outer space. Sooner or later we will start to run out of all of our natural resources and space may provide the answer to prolonging life here on earth.

I don't know what the big deal is.

Many astronauts have come out and spoken about ET's, Edgar Mitchell being the most famous one.

IT'S ON THE FRIGGIN PUBLIC RECORD/TRANSCRIPTS where astronauts have described strange lights/craft on the moon and in space.

Anyone who denies this is delusional.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Originally posted by lme7898354
I don't claim to be an expert in the area of aeronatics but one thing is for sure many of the devices we use in daily life are a direct result of the space program. I don't care if it's private or governmental people who carry on but we need to expand our exploration of outer space. Sooner or later we will start to run out of all of our natural resources and space may provide the answer to prolonging life here on earth.

Ya, and guess where we got the technology from? Or should I say who? This page provides many links to instances of alien tech transfer:

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE
I don't know what the big deal is.

Many astronauts have come out and spoken about ET's, Edgar Mitchell being the most famous one.

IT'S ON THE FRIGGIN PUBLIC RECORD/TRANSCRIPTS where astronauts have described strange lights/craft on the moon and in space.

Anyone who denies this is delusional.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Actually, many of those claims have been thoroughly argued out hereabouts and the consensus is they are internet hoaxes. Please don't carelessly throw about the term delusional when many of the claims you seem to be endorsing have inadequate authenticity. You may wind up being embarrassed about a pot calling a kettle black.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE
I don't know what the big deal is.

Many astronauts have come out and spoken about ET's, Edgar Mitchell being the most famous one.

IT'S ON THE FRIGGIN PUBLIC RECORD/TRANSCRIPTS where astronauts have described strange lights/craft on the moon and in space.

Anyone who denies this is delusional.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Actually, many of those claims have been thoroughly argued out hereabouts and the consensus is they are internet hoaxes. Please don't carelessly throw about the term delusional when many of the claims you seem to be endorsing have inadequate authenticity. You may wind up being embarrassed about a pot calling a kettle black.

I wondered how long it would take a knowledge management specialist to come on here and tell me what to think.

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE
I don't know what the big deal is.

Many astronauts have come out and spoken about ET's, Edgar Mitchell being the most famous one.

IT'S ON THE FRIGGIN PUBLIC RECORD/TRANSCRIPTS where astronauts have described strange lights/craft on the moon and in space.

Anyone who denies this is delusional.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Actually, many of those claims have been thoroughly argued out hereabouts and the consensus is they are internet hoaxes. Please don't carelessly throw about the term delusional when many of the claims you seem to be endorsing have inadequate authenticity. You may wind up being embarrassed about a pot calling a kettle black.

I wondered how long it would take a knowledge management specialist to come on here and tell me what to think.

It wouldnt be so bad if that wasnt the site that you referenced in nearly every link that you have provided, across more than one thread. One of the keys to getting people to understand and/or believe the point that you are trying to make is to use multiple sources to verify your claims. Even better, those multiple sources should be multiple "types" of sources. Find a couple of newspaper articles, an online peer-reviewed paper, something from your site, a news report from an online media site, etc ... even if what you are saying is complete BS, on the face it gives more material for people to look at and lends more credibility to what you are trying to get across. And who knows, in the process of gathering this information, you might actually learn something new.

reply to post by flyswatter


All you have to do is type in Edgar Mitchell and ET's and you will have hundreds of sources - he is on the public record as saying ET's are around and the info is suppressed - if something is on the public record you don't really need much corroboration, do you?

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE
reply to post by flyswatter

 

All you have to do is type in Edgar Mitchell and ET's and you will have hundreds of sources - he is on the public record as saying ET's are around and the info is suppressed - if something is on the public record you don't really need much corroboration, do you?

The main problem there is that anyone can put anything out there on "public record" at any time. Who is making the statements and the verification of what is being said is still a matter of importance to at least some degree, regardless of what is being discussed.

As far as ETs go ... I cant rule them out by any means, and it would be foolish of me to make an assumption that we are alone in this universe. Does NASA have secret files? Sure, in some sense of the word. There's plenty of stuff that is "secret" in the respect that it is not available to the public. Do I think they have secret files concerning alien contact being made? I seriously doubt it. I've yet to see any proof of such, but I won't 100% rule it out. I just wont hold my breath on it.

Originally posted by flyswatter

As far as ETs go ... I cant rule them out by any means, and it would be foolish of me to make an assumption that we are alone in this universe. Does NASA have secret files? Sure, in some sense of the word. There's plenty of stuff that is "secret" in the respect that it is not available to the public. Do I think they have secret files concerning alien contact being made? I seriously doubt it. I've yet to see any proof of such, but I won't 100% rule it out. I just wont hold my breath on it.

Skip the earnest act for someone who cares or who will buy it.

It is pretty obvious to most who look at Roswell - there was ET contact and it was covered up - plain and simple.

An air-force major one day comes out and says we have found a crashed metal disk some 40 ft in diameter with dead aliens - and the next day it is a weather balloon? An air-force major can't tell the difference between a weather balloon and a 40ft metal disk - at close range on the ground? And this air force major carried on with his duties - so he had no psychological issues.

Many also believe the overwhelming circumstantial evidence of MAJIC - there are thousands of documents from hundreds of sources - way too many to be a hoax. Besides, if someone wanted to hoax about UFO's why wouldn't they just take some pics - instead of fabricating such an elaborate scheme as MAJIC - a secret government organization formed to deal with the ongoing alien contact/issues.

Try to convince some other guillible poster on ATS of your alien disinformation - you are wasting your breath with me.

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE

Originally posted by flyswatter

As far as ETs go ... I cant rule them out by any means, and it would be foolish of me to make an assumption that we are alone in this universe. Does NASA have secret files? Sure, in some sense of the word. There's plenty of stuff that is "secret" in the respect that it is not available to the public. Do I think they have secret files concerning alien contact being made? I seriously doubt it. I've yet to see any proof of such, but I won't 100% rule it out. I just wont hold my breath on it.

Skip the earnest act for someone who cares or who will buy it.

It is pretty obvious to most who look at Roswell - there was ET contact and it was covered up - plain and simple.

An air-force major one day comes out and says we have found a crashed metal disk some 40 ft in diameter with dead aliens - and the next day it is a weather balloon? An air-force major can't tell the difference between a weather balloon and a 40ft metal disk - at close range on the ground? And this air force major carried on with his duties - so he had no psychological issues.

Many also believe the overwhelming circumstantial evidence of MAJIC - there are thousands of documents from hundreds of sources - way too many to be a hoax. Besides, if someone wanted to hoax about UFO's why wouldn't they just take some pics - instead of fabricating such an elaborate scheme as MAJIC - a secret government organization formed to deal with the ongoing alien contact/issues.

Try to convince some other guillible poster on ATS of your alien disinformation - you are wasting your breath with me.

Hard for me to provide "disinfo" when I'm not providing "info" at all, only my opinion and feeling on the matter. You are far too defensive about absolutely nothing.

It might do some good to go back and re-read what I said in my post. I never said anything about Roswell or any coverup there, or anything about what a general did or did not say. Those have nothing to do with what I was talking about, which was 1) do aliens exist and 2) does NASA have "secret" files covering up alien contact.

Take not that I said that I would be foolish to say that we are alone in this universe - if you think about it, you'll come to understand that this means I'm not saying they dont exist. And a coverup at Roswell has nothing to do with NASA having files on alien contact, as the Roswell incidents would be handled by exactly who you referred to before, the Air Force. Not NASA.

If you want to call BS or whatever, thats fine. Doesnt hurt my feelings, but do you just automatically assume that a person not sharing your viewpoint is somehow not earnest in their beliefs?

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE
reply to post by flyswatter

 

All you have to do is type in Edgar Mitchell and ET's and you will have hundreds of sources - he is on the public record as saying ET's are around and the info is suppressed - if something is on the public record you don't really need much corroboration, do you?

So do you believe every fringe subject claim Mitchell has said?

Without checking?

Ditto Gordon Cooper?

Originally posted by JimOberg

So do you believe every fringe subject claim Mitchell has said?

Without checking?

Ditto Gordon Cooper?

Do you believe that if there were ongoing ET contact with the planet's elites it would be heavily covered up and subjected to severe disinformation?

I'll tell you what, I belive this Canadian DEFENSE MINISTER talking about decades of ET contact over some anonymous online poster spreading disinformation and trying to supress the facts of ongoing ET contact:

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Interesting post. I don't necessarily think that there is a conspiracy within ALL of NASA. So based on that I'd say that there are many NASA employees who would agree that the debris-looking formations are just debris, and that they aren't covering for "the man" and his "new world order".

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE

I'll tell you what, I belive this Canadian DEFENSE MINISTER talking about decades of ET contact over some anonymous online poster spreading disinformation and trying to supress the facts of ongoing ET contact:

And the source of the Canuck's 'inside information' is, exactly, what?

Phil Corso's book?

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE

I'll tell you what, I belive this Canadian DEFENSE MINISTER talking about decades of ET contact over some anonymous online poster spreading disinformation and trying to supress the facts of ongoing ET contact:

And the source of the Canuck's 'inside information' is, exactly, what?

Phil Corso's book?

Umm, maybe the fact he was the Defense Minister of a G-7 and NATO country? Maybe first hand info?

If Donald Rumsfeld came out and said the same thing, would you ask that question?