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The Truth About Obamacare From Someone Who Actually Read It

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posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by muse7
reply to post by neo96
 


Except that if you can't afford it, then they will help you pay for it.


Premium Subsidies Households with incomes below 400 percent and above 133 percent of the federal poverty line (FPL) who are enrolled in insurance plans offered through the exchanges are eligible for premium assistance financed by the federal government (Medicaid will cover families with incomes below 133 percent of FPL). In 2010, the FPL is $22,050 for family of four. The new law establishes a sliding scale of assistance based on limitations on required family contributions to the cost of coverage. For instance, at 150 percent of FPL in 2014, ObamaCare limits the amount that such households must contribute toward their health insurance premium to 4 percent of their annual income. At 400 percent of the FPL, households must contribute 9.5 percent of their income toward insurance premiums. Whatever portion of the total health insurance premium for their coverage is not paid by these households is covered by the new federal premium assistance program.


Link

Forcing people to have access to healthcare...how evil of Obama
edit on 6/10/2012 by muse7 because: (no reason given)


Yeah raising the rates on others to pay for those who can't more subsidies, and burden is evil.

Every person already has access to healthcare right now.

None gets turned down at Hosptials,or clinics and there is already private health insurance, and then there is still medicare,and medicaid.

Funny how I never hear about illegals crying about healthcare the largest users of "free healthcare" financed by tax dollars.




posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by muse7
 


Forcing people to have access to healthcare
funny, ppl already HAVE access to healthcare,
Obamacare is about mandated health insurance and that ain't the same no matter how many times you repeat it.

fyi, many ppl don't have insurance simply because they don't want what is offered and cannot get the coverage they do want ... how is the government or Obamacare correcting that ??



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
I haven't read the entire bill, so I don't know if what many are saying is true, although I did see some things that concerned me. The truth is that something needs to be done about the current healthcare "system" in the US. That's the bottom line. At least this bill is "something," even though it could make things worse in the long run.


At least the FEMA camps are something, right? It's somewhere to live, now that you don't have a house to live in and can't afford an apartment.

Is this how stupid Americans have become?



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by muse7
 


I dont think hes saying Obama is evil.

I have to agree with him on this issue. The Affordable Care act does not solve the problem. The problem is the lack of competition within the insurance realm, leading to very restrictive coverage and ludicrous rising premiums.

Obamacare does very little to address these issues and even makes the problem of insurance company monopolies worse. Public option was the answer and he dropped the ball.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 


No

People don't have access to healthcare in the US. They do have access to "sickcare" though. Meaning that most people with no insurance wait until the last possible minute to go to the ER, and by that time it's usually too late.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by muse7
 
i would strongly disagree with your sentiment as i have never been turned away from having a medical need addressed, ever. (with or without insurance)
not from a hospital, not from a drs office, not from a clinic and certainly not from a bureauocrat.

healthcare is as accessible as is your own interest in maintaining it.
sick care has been around since before the first hospital existed.
health insurance is the vulture circling above.

some ppl may wait too long to have their health issues addressed, however, Obamacare does NOTHING to rectify that issue either. many ppl seen in ERs across the US don't even have citizenship let alone health insurance, so what's your point here ??



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 06:13 PM
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I happen to work in healthcare and have seen the effect of what has taken place thus far. Keep in mind, I'm not a doctor or healthcare provider but I work for the largest medical group in AZ and they are the 2nd largest employer in AZ. Prior to my current position, I supported EHR products, (electronic health records) as well as medical imaging and PACS systems.

So far, what I have seen to directly affect hospitals and providers is the so-called "Meaningful Use" and "HiTech" provisions. They have absolutely nothing to do with making healthcare affordable; to the contrary. In short, the government, AKA you and I, are paying up to $18K per provider, per year for up to 3 years for providers that use Electronic Health Records in a "meaningful" way. These ways are referred to as "measures". They consist of everything from writing Rx's electronically to providing a "visit summary" before the patient walks out the door, to placing lab orders electronically instead of a printed form. There are probably 100 of these measures; I don't recall exactly how many. Vaccinations fall under a measure as do flu shots for children and the elderly. Again, if you meet the prescribed number of measures, you get a nice, tidy check in the sum of $18K for each year of the first 3 years. If you have a 5 provider practice, then multiply that by 5.

This is probably the most obvious stage of ObamaCare to hit the real world, thus far. As you can see, it is nothing but a way for the government to get everybody up to speed, on your dime, so when they make their move, they have all medical records electronically available to them. In other words the tax payers are paying to ready the healthcare industry for government take-over. At least that's the way I view it. The government knows they couldn't deal with millions and millions of paper records so this is how they deal with it.

On a more personal note, you are no longer permitted to use your OWN money from your flexible spending account, (FSA) on OTC items like vitamins, pain relievers, etc. It may not sound like a big deal but when you consider it is YOUR money that YOU paid in and some people, such as myself, spend considerable cash every month on supplements, (I personally take 8 different supplements. I have cardiac artery disease and COPD), it can really piss a guy off. The part of that that really pisses me off is that the only difference between using your FSA and using cash out-of-pocket is that the FSA is tax-free. What I take from that is that they are somehow worried about the minute taxes that are avoided by using an FSA. Really? I mean how much money is the federal government losing out on by me getting my OTC medicines tax free? Most people put no more than say $1000/yr into their FSA and my guess is only a very small portion of that is used for OTC items. The rest would go toward office visits, regular Rx's, etc. That level of greed over such an insignificant tax base just makes my blood boil. This fact alone is proof enough to me that the government doesn't give a rat's ass about making health care affordable...at least not at their expense.

Sorry to ramble but the blatant lies and misinfo regarding "ObamaCare" make me want to spit. It's about moving towards the government taking over the healthcare industry, not affordable healthcare.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by timetothink
 


How ignorant are you?

The best health care systems in the world are government run.

France
Italy
Norway
Switzerland
Sweden



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by timetothink
 


How ignorant are you?

The best health care systems in the world are government run.

France
Italy
Norway
Switzerland
Sweden

and, which of those governments or healthcare systems even remotely resemble Obamacare ??



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by xuenchen
 


I'll admit I have not read the entire bill. *Shudders at the thought...sigh*

Yet, I have read plenty of write=ups on how Obamacare has already caused
the prices of health care plans to rise!


Not only that, but it has also aided in keeping the economy down. No employer knows how much this bill will cost him/her after 2012, and as a result, are not hiring or are hiring temp workers and contractors. Just take a look at the job sites online. Most of the jobs I've seen are 3-6 or 6-12 month contracts.
edit on 6/10/2012 by AntiNWO because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen
story from Western Center for Journalism
By Michael Connelly - June 8, 2012



The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business, and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats, and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled by the government.



Think about your last visit to the DMV. Really take the time to think about it. You think that was unpleasant? Wait until you're in agonizing pain, waiting in a line that goes out the door, and have to experience the same. That's exactly what the healthcare system will become when there's no competition left, and lazy, overpaid, arrogant government workers are running it. If you don't believe that, then name a truely efficient government agency (besides the IRS when it comes to collecting, that is).


Originally posted by xuenchen
dangerous liaisons

However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated.



Exactly as I thought. Anyone who thinks the Obama goons rammed this bill through because they care about your health is a fool, to put it politely. Everything, and I mean Everything they do is for power, whether Democrat or Republican.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by axslinger
 


Thanks for your post, it was very informative to me. What do you suggest we do? Should we completely avoid putting any money into a flexible spending account?



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by xuenchen
 


My doctor flat out refused to sign the Bill for Obamacare when it first came out because he didn't care for the idea of having some bureacrat regulate what treatments and medications patients obtained for their illnesses and conditions.

.


Is your Dr. a Senator?

Why would he need to sign a health care bill?


There was a petition against Obamacare the doctors in my state were signing.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 08:08 PM
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A little truth about the "wonderful" European healthcare...



Italians and foreigners in Italy prefer to take private health insurance coverage over and above those basic state covers. With a private insurance, you can freely choose your own doctor and specialist and treated at private hospitals, thus avoiding for those long queues just to get an appointment for medical specialists. Private hospitals in Italy have the best accommodations, comparable to those five-star hotels. Although with the comfort and the quality of service from private hospitals, the medical care is very similar to those in public hospitals.


. Italian doctors are well trained and very passionate about their profession, and their private hospitals are comparable with any country. However, there are some state hospitals in Italy that are very patchy, providing comfort way below what most northern Europeans and Americans expect. These hospitals are normally found in southern Italy. To stay away with this, expatriates and Italians alike prefer to consider a private health insurance to generally cover the expensive costs of hospitalizations and surgeries just to have the comfort needed and to avoid waiting on long lists that are normally common on most state systems.


Poor facilities, long waitlists and the necessity to carry private insurance in addition to state sponsored in order to get better care. Sounds great!
I have a large amount of family in Italy, Italians not ex-pats and I can assure the assessment of the healthcare is correct...their government is a shambles, it changes from Socialist, to something else to something else with every election. They had a terrible earthquake back in 1998...it took ten years to get their state/insurance money for repairs....my family just finished their repairs the end of 2008.

I think their own words speak for themselves:

Principles of the Servizio Sanitario Nazionale (Italian National health Service)

Human dignity
Every individual has to be treated with equal dignity and have equal rights regardless of personal characteristics and role in society

Protection
The individual health has to be protected with appropriate preventive measures and interventions

Need
Everyone has access to heath care and available resources to meet the primary health care needs

Solidarity
Available resources have to be primarily allocated to support groups of people, individuals and certain diseases that are socially, clinically and epidemiologically important

Effectiveness and appropriateness
Resources must be addressed towards services whose effectiveness is grounded and individuals that might especially benefit from them. Priority should be given to interventions that offer greater efficacy in relation to costs

Equity
Any individual must have access to the health care system with no differentiation or discrimination among citizens and no barrier at the point of use.


In other words.....the government decides who, when and if someone gets service.

Physician Choice. Italians have limited choice of their physician but more than in the UK or in Spain. They must register with a general practitioner (GP) in their LHA. For any specialist services, patients must get a referral from their GP.

Copayment/Deductibles. Inpatient and primary care are free. For tests, diagnostic procedures and prescription drugs, copayments are as high as 30%. However, 40% of the population (e.g.: the elderly, pregnant women, kids) are exempt from these copayments.

Technology. There is a shortage of medical technology in Italy. The U.S. has twice as may MRI units per million than Italy and 25% more CT scanners.

Waiting Times. Waiting times are fairly long for diagnostic tests. The average wait for a mammogram is 70 days, for endoscopy 74 days. Tanner notes that: “Ironically, the best-equipped hospitals in northern Italy have even longer waiting lists since they draw patients from the poorer southern regions as well.”

Tanner, Michael D. (2008) “The Grass Is Not Always Greener: A Look at National Health Care Systems Around the World” Cato Policy Analysis no. 613.



The Italian health care system is a decentralized version of the British NHS. Despite the high rankings by the WHO, Italians are dissatisfied with the quality of their care. Italians believe more patient choice will improve quality, but “given the general dysfunction of the Italian political system, and the entrenched opposition of special interest groups, substantial reform is not likely anytime soon.” Cost: Health care spending rose by 68% between 1995 and 2003.


healthcare-economist.com...

We need stop comparing freedom in your healthcare decisions to European Socialist government no-choice models....anyone who wants these no-choice euro models is free to move over there....but do not try to convince americans it is the only choice to save our healthcare problems....



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 08:10 PM
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Trading one lousy healthcare system for another lousy healthcare system with less choice and higher taxes is insane....................INSANE!!!!!



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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Last time i checked wasn't those Eurpean countries broke?

Asking for bailouts?

Best healthcare in the world eh.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 08:19 PM
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Facts about Obamacare from someone who actually pays attention.

1) When people buy health care coverage under Obama care, they would be paying for it based on PRE TAX dollars.

2) When peopel buy health care coverage under GOP plan, they would be paying for it based on POST TAX dollars.

Hmm, this doesn't get much of a mention on FOX NEWS or at Romney rallies.



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 08:20 PM
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Just want to repost this part of the Italian Healthcare :

Need
Everyone has access to heath care and available resources to meet the primary health care needs

Solidarity
Available resources have to be primarily allocated to support groups of people, individuals and certain diseases that are socially, clinically and epidemiologically important

Effectiveness and appropriateness
Resources must be addressed towards services whose effectiveness is grounded and individuals that might especially benefit from them. Priority should be given to interventions that offer greater efficacy in relation to costs


At least the Italians have round things to come right and say "healthcare is rationed".



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by babybunnies
Facts about Obamacare from someone who actually pays attention.

1) When people buy health care coverage under Obama care, they would be paying for it based on PRE TAX dollars.

2) When peopel buy health care coverage under GOP plan, they would be paying for it based on POST TAX dollars.

Hmm, this doesn't get much of a mention on FOX NEWS or at Romney rallies.


Without knowing exactly what you mean or where those facts are coming from,

It may not make any difference.

The IRS routinely adjusts tax deductions and exemption limits. And income would be a factor.

Can you be a bit more clear on that ?



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Yep yep. Many are under "futile" care already. Beware if you or a loved one falls in a category of "special needs" or "special care". These are not good.
edit on 10-6-2012 by ScatterBrain because: spelling error







 
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