The Truth About Obamacare From Someone Who Actually Read It

reply to post by xuenchen


Pointless and unnecessary to go to a tea##SNIP## website to get this info; wiki does a nice job:
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Chadwickus


Best according to who?

Keep in mind the statistics of healthcare coverage and effectiveness are often reported by the same governments that provide the services.

Michael Moore tried to pull that same BS argument in his movie 'Sicko', but Stossel debunked that one pretty well:



No doubt that our current healthcare system is totally ****ed, but Obamacare certainly isn't the solution.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by xuenchen

 

Things like forced abortions and healthcare rationing are in there.

I noticed he didn't link them...?

Well the guy said he read the whole thing. And this is the internet so it must be true.

Isn't the truth about Obamacare is thats its really Romneycare???

Right Democrats couldn't write their own bill so they stole Romney's!

Seriously people believe that nonsense?

Then that means right wingers wrote Frank Dodd Act too.

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Just more contradictory nonsense. The health care blll cant both be a pro-business handout and 'socialism'.

NOT "pro-business", but rather "pro-corporation". It's very anti-business, seeking to eliminate sole proprietorships in favor of corporations, and giving a sop to other corporations, specifically insurance corporations, by guaranteeing them an income with the individual mandate.

"Corporations", in opposition to sole proprietorships, ARE socialist entities, by definition. They are collectives. even worse, they are solely created and authorized by the State, making them State-sponsored collectives. If you don't believe me, try to form a corporation without getting the State involved in it's formation in any way.

Corporations are State-sponsored Socialism.

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by xuenchen


Things like forced abortions and healthcare rationing are in there.

No.

Unless you consider the pundit's opinion that the bill contains "probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession."

Just more contradictory nonsense. The health care blll cant both be a pro-business handout and 'socialism'.

edit on 9-6-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)

That's exactly what it is. Big Business has a strong, vested interest in creating a dependent citizenry. Dependents don't have any choice or freedom. Especially when big government forces its subjects to purchase products of big business or else.
Socialist programs are huge business for huge private interest government contractors and, of course, for the international banks who are needed to provide the funds and create debt, which destroys sovereignty.

The health care bill IS, in fact, a perfect example of corporatism: the co-dependent marriage of big business/banking and big government at the detriment to freedom and the economic well being of the middle class. There is no contradiction whatsoever.

reply to post by nenothtu

NOT "pro-business", but rather "pro-corporation". It's very anti-business, seeking to eliminate sole proprietorships in favor of corporations, and giving a sop to other corporations, specifically insurance corporations, by guaranteeing them an income with the individual mandate.

"Corporations", in opposition to sole proprietorships, ARE socialist entities, by definition. They are collectives. even worse, they are solely created and authorized by the State, making them State-sponsored collectives. If you don't believe me, try to form a corporation without getting the State involved in it's formation in any way.

Corporations are State-sponsored Socialism.

reply to post by pierregustavetoutant

That's exactly what it is. Big Business has a strong, vested interest in creating a dependent citizenry. Dependents don't have any choice or freedom. Especially when big government forces its subjects to purchase products of big business or else.
Socialist programs are huge business for huge private interest government contractors and, of course, for the international banks who are needed to provide the funds and create debt, which destroys sovereignty.

The health care bill IS, in fact, a perfect example of corporatism: the co-dependent marriage of big business/banking and big government at the detriment to freedom and the economic well being of the middle class. There is no contradiction whatsoever.

Yep.

The Corporatism is there along with the Marxism circuit breaker population controls too.
Perfect combination for them.

I bet those big insurance companies are majority owned by the same international financial institutions too.

Institutions like State Street Corp and BlackRock Inc. (there's dozens more like them)
Those outfits own stock in most large corporations.

Institutional stock ownership is where the big money investments are parked.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
so when is the scotus going to rule and throw this thing out?

or did they already rule and I just woke up from a coma ?

They were going to move the ruling forward to tomorrow, because Sebilius is trying to do an end run and ram a bunch of crap through into operation before they rule on it, but I'm not sure if they're still going to rule tomorrow or not - I haven't heard anything lately.

Originally posted by spinalremain
Marxist???

Yes. Forcing all your citizens to pay a private insurance company is the most communist idea ever. It's so communist in fact, that the GOP was very much in favor of it prior to Obama being elected. The horror!

If you're going to call Obama a Marxist, at least use an example which fits if you can find one.

Indeed! Just more evidence of the huge lurch to the left the GOP has taken in the past 20 years under neocon rule.

Originally posted by rickymouse
I'd rather see our whole healthcare system replaced with universal government run health care and kill all the Pharmacutical companies and all patents on medicine. Healthcare should not be part of capitalism or for profit. I'm sure many doctors would rather be put on salary and have no worries about lawsuits and creating work for others of the medical profession. We could have healthcare like Canada, England, Norway, or other countries. We wouldn't be as sick from the medical industry profiting off our sickness.

oddly, I have no problem with that concept provided the government is left out of it. As long as I am not required to participate - neither putting in to it nor taking out from it - I'm OK with it. Form a co-op and knock your socialist self out, as long as you don't involve me in it, or the government.

The government's job is to govern, not take my temperature.

Originally posted by tiyxx
reply to post by spinalremain

 

Lets not forget all the states that force people to buy car insurance.

edit on 10-6-2012 by tiyxx because: (no reason given)

I live in North Carolina. They aren't forcing me to buy car insurance.

You have to drive to need car insurance in NC, so it's a choice. I don't drive, so I don't have to insure a car.

The individual mandate does not give you that choice - unless you kill yourself.

You know of a state that forces you to insure a car even if you elect not to participate by driving?

reply to post by xuenchen


Let's just assume he didn't read it until he shows quotes and page numbers. Anyone can make claims.

I call for a law that states that no bill will be more than 50 pages and able to be understood by a graduating senior from a high school.

If the American people can't understand the bill, how can we respond to it? If the people voting on it don't even have time to read it, they should be unable to vote on it.

We need laws for government, and they need to be enforced. We can build a small citizen's army whose job it is to make sure the government stays in line. It would be formed by random drawings, and if you are ever found to be guilty of corruption related to your position, you will be put to death by a member of the citizen's army. Someone has to watch these people. Citizen's army could live and work right amongst all government employees. No treasonous secret meetings, EVER. None of the bribery. None of the treason.

There is a way to protect the people, but they keep changing the laws. Oust the traitors! No more loopholes! No more corruption!

Originally posted by spinalremain
Marxist???

Yes. Forcing all your citizens to pay a private insurance company is the most communist idea ever. It's so communist in fact, that the GOP was very much in favor of it prior to Obama being elected. The horror!

If you're going to call Obama a Marxist, at least use an example which fits if you can find one.

He already did... The fact that this is being FORCED, and it has to do with "supposedly free healthcare" ties it with Marxist ideology... Or are you going to tell us now that "Obamacare" is a rightwing idea?...

In Cuba for example, despite the lies from certain people, everyone from the age of 11-12 years old must work for free for the state to pay off "healthcare" which is the worse type of healthcare you can find anywhere in the world... The work is done in the hills of Cuba, harvesting tobacco, sugar, and other resources, most of which Cubans don't get to enjoy...

Children work under the worst conditions, that you wouldn't even want your dog to live in.

I know because I witnessed what happened to my two older sisters when I was in Cuba. I remember them crying asking my parents not to let them go. They would go hungry, get intestinal worms, lice, and slept in houses mostly made out of either thin cardboard or even blankets/cloth...

They had no fans, almost no one in Cuba does but in these places it was extremely hot. I saw these places because on Sunday for about a couple of hours or so parents and family could visit the children, and the parents could not complain about the living conditions because the state has a law that if the parents try to stop the children from learning to be good socialists/communists the state can take away your children and put them in indcotrination camps which FORCES THEM to "become good socialists/communists"...

In fact Obama, and Democrats signed into law a similar bill in which they want to force children from secondary, and many Democrats want even children from primary school to do "Community Service", which in fact is to work for the state/government for free... H.R. 1388.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by daynight42


I agree.

Legislation should small and concise.

And I think many should be passed by referendum.

ObamaCare might get shot down soon.

Then maybe some small laws can be passed that make sense.

reply to post by sirjunlegun


It is already too late for the open minded few will never sway the fearful conformity of the masses!
These masses believe that to revolt is to throw off the chains of government and allow anarchy to rein
in the streets! Ignorance will bind down the masses and destroy our freedoms till slavery can no longer be denyed! I realize that this is a bleek view but until i see a more aware populace I will maintain my negativity!

Here's something from an article at "The Hill"

Alternatives to a Supreme Court "strikedown" ?

If you like what you have, keep it

The president made this promise before the law passed, but it has already been broken. Employers, big and small — including AT&T, Caterpillar, Deere & Co. and Verizon — are already discussing dropping coverage for workers. The reason: it is cheaper to pay the penalties spelled out in ObamaCare and dump people into the government exchange than it is to foot the bill for all the new mandates in the law. Republicans want to protect your right to keep your current insurance.

I bet those employees won't get a raise either !!!

Senior choice

We should ensure that seniors will be able to keep their current health insurance. ObamaCare cuts $500,000,000 from Medicare. This is unacceptable. The greatest generation deserves and should receive the greatest care available.

Hmmm.

Ensure the sick get the healthcare they need

People with pre-existing conditions and chronic illnesses need to have access to affordable insurance. We can do this by requiring states to create, expand and strengthen high-risk pools, reinsurance and other risk-adjustment mechanisms; providing federal funding for such programs; and prohibiting insurance companies from canceling the coverage of Americans without cause.

Offering a step-by-step Republican alternative to President Obama’s healthcare reform law

reply to post by xuenchen


Here's what I'd do: take care of the people already on, and then EDUCATE to prevent future illnesses, because most are preventable OR even reversible! They would never do that though, because it would spell disaster for the "economy." F- the people, it's all about keeping up a broken system!

They would also be revealing the lies they dreamed up, too. People would not believe them again. Lies build more lies.

We are all expect to be stupid, get sick, but work, and die slowly while receiving overpriced medical care. Try to tell that to anyone on the street, and see what kind of dumb look you get. They will be the same ones getting sick, though. Not me! Been there. Done that. Educated myself...(myself, being the keyword, because nobody will guide you to the truth).

We are already rationing healthcare, those with the most money get the most healthcare and the best care, those with the least money get the worst healthcare or no healthcare at all.
A lot of People with no healthcare end up on the social security disability roll because treatable conditions aren`t being treated and they progressively get worse until the person qualifies for disability.
Personally i would rather pay a one time fee for them to get treated rather than pay them for the rest of lives to be on disability.

Isn't obamacare supposed to go in effect 2013 and if you want the healthcare you'll be implanted and that implant will be linked to your bank account.