A world without time.

I love this topic! Thanks OP.
Some thoughts

Consciousness: Time = Perception/Choice

PERCEPTION
The most important consequence of consciousness; it defines who we are, but not what we are. Who we are is a reflection of our egos. Ego is something we are very aware of, yet do not necessarily acknowledge while making decisions (exercising choices). Perception limits the choices we expose ourselves too. Few of us bother to look away from our perception. Favorable perceptions are accepted and defended. Unfavorable perceptions are rejected and fought off. Ignorance allows for advantage, thus the illusion of power. We create our own cages, our own carrots and our own sticks.

THE GUNMAN PARADOX (conscious choice)
Somehow you are in a sticky situation; I have a gun pointed at your head. It does not matter how or why, just that I am giving you a choice: do this or die. If the choices I propose are less favorable than death you will choose to die and then realizing death has no motivation in bending you to my will, I would either kill you or leave you be. Or you do whatever I say and I still would have the option to kill you, as I am still at advantage, unless I choose to relinquish my advantage. Now ask yourself how did you get into this situation? Am I, as the gunman exerting my will upon you? Or did I happen upon you because of choices you made previously?

THE CAVEMAN PARADOX (sub-conscious choice)
Was the first art mankind fashioned on rock due to a desire for expression or reward? Was the artist compensated for his work? Did the artist create the work due to superstition? For affection of another, for power, or control? Any of the above; our choices are influenced by far more things than we are aware of. Motivation lies behind all our actions, in many ways we have yet to move past our own self-interest.
Matter: Vibration of Energy

( ) oo ( ) ^
^ oo

( ) oo / ^ Describes our perception of General Relativity.
( ) ^ / oo Describes our perception of Quantum Mechanics.

The equation could give us the frequency range of entire ‘groups’ of matter [energy], or dimensions, offering further breakdown of vibration frequencies. It is my opinion the equation could even allow us to accurately judge the frequencies of parallel, alternate and even past realities.

( ) is symbol for literally nothing. This is the constant. I like to think of this variable that makes up what we experience as dimension, reality, or existence, something that is almost impossible to measure.

oo is the ability of matter/energy to stay the same and create a pattern, or the ‘stasis’ trait of matter.

^ is the ability of matter/energy to change, or the ‘infinity’ trait of matter.
It is my belief that all known variables that describe the laws of physics have an alignment with either:
( ), oo, or ^ .


Pattern of Events Experience Infinite Events
oo ( ) ^
Previous Vibration of Energy Current Vibration of Energy Possible Vibration of Energy

Grouping example – may be completely off here.
Matter Photon Weak Force
Gravity Electron Strong Force
-Electromagnetism?-
As a System:
Reinforcing Reinforcing Balancing



**Our idea of dark matter could be an example of the interaction between gravity and matter to form the barrier making up our universe.
**Photons/Electrons exist only in the present; with signals from the near future, of which, we observing from the near past. This is why we have difficulty observing.
** If the further away we look into the universe the ‘younger’ forms of matter appear to us, then could it be possible the closer we look at matter the ‘older’ the older forms appear? What if because matter/energy in the future does not exist due to the infinite possibility of conversion (information transfer) we are merely witnessing the far end of the current vibration? It’s not that the matter/energy of the future does not exist; it’s simply that we cannot observe the direct conversion of matter and are witnessing the most present possibilities, entanglement?
**Each vibration may correspond to different geometrical shapes (patterns of chemistry?), which ultimately may determine the properties of specific types of matter/energy

reply to post by Th0r


time is very intersting in deed!..I think as we start getting more into time you start to get into the realms of parallel universes.. I have this theory that came into my head just the other day.. it was pretty mind blowing.. came to me out of no where... I think you could call it a hipithany.. but its too complicated to explain on here but its my theory of how time works and has parallel universes in it too.
I just think its all so interesting.
I think there is a way to get out of time.. a place where your in all moments of all time.. being able to be ALL time.. be able to see every moment that happened in one instant.. i have heard that is what happens to some people when they die.. they get to know what every emotiion they had at every moment of their life.. Its awesome haha.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Life and death is part of the illusion. The illusion is just a movie in 3D vision with supersurround sound, with smell and touch and sensation, it is sensational. The seer and knower of the illusion cannot die because it was not born.
It is void, in the beginning there was nothing and then the word made believe there was something.
How can void or no thingness die or be harmed by anything?

edit on 8-6-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Your drum beat is relentless. Nothing exists but now. Nothing ever emerged and nothing every ceases to exist, because everything already is and always was, even though it never existed to begin with. And yet it's all being perceived by nothing whatsoever, since nothing exists to being with. Even though it sure as hell seems like it does exist - which is an illusion that also doesn't exist (since nothing exists and nothing has ever existed - even though its always been and can never cease to be).

I don't know, man. From where I sit, you have no idea what you actually believe to be true. A world that doesn't exist can't imagine that something exists. Hell, there's nothing there to imagine anything if nothing exists. You really need to take out a pencil and a piece of paper and sketch this stuff out for yourself before you go any further. Your internal contradictions have completely immobilized your interpretation of reality (which apparently doesn't exist, according to your own assertions), and made your beliefs impossible to defend, since they debunk each other thoroughly.

I understand the idea of "now" as being the only material reality that can be pointed to, but you've wandered into the desert a bit here, and lost sight of whatever landmarks you might've depended on at one time for navigation.

reply to post by NorEaster



Nothing is 'not-a-thing'. No 'things' exist. However, the 'no thing' IS.
'This', nowness, isness, suchness is. But 'this' is not a thing.

Reality knows, it is not a thing.

reply to post by NorEaster


If you ever inquire very deeply into your true nature you will find that you are nothing, you are void of things, you are nothing percievable or concievable. It is very unlikely that you would bother to look directly at what you are because most people want to be something, some-body or some-mind (clever mind). It is most peoples biggest fear to find that they are nothing, so i don't expect many will ever know for sure. In fact even the idea of looking to find the ultimate seer within terrifies the mind and the mind will put terror in you to stop you going there.
When the mind is seen through the nothingness that is found beyond is empty of thoughts and the world is seen clean and fresh. It is clear from the judgements that mind puts on everything it processes. Seeing and hearing the world without the noise of mind is amazing. There is only ever what is happening, it really is like a movie set because there is no narration anymore.
The movie set is appearing before me and i am the witness. There seems to be two sides to the experience, the movie and then there is me, but they always appear together, as one, they come as a package. When i look to find the me, there is no one there, so all there is; is an image appearing and disappearing.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


how can your philosophy/outlook/inlook be correct if you used words, thoughts and ideas of logic and reason to come up with them? how do you know you know you are right, if you cant and dont know anything about anything else.... there is nothing that is real there is nothing that exists its all an illusion, why should i trust the whacky things you are saying, why would you want me to trust in your delusional ramblings? ,, if your thoughts are manifestations of babbling nothingness and your words are the gruntings of a non existent thing we mistakenly view as a real physical creature?


your philosophy is nothing more then a self defense for ignorance..... it is scary not knowing everything, not being in control, the feeling of confusion,, well if i believe that nothing exists, there is no meaning, value, measure, potential, or purpose to anything,, if everything that may exist is put into this same boat as me,,it will allow me to take my own shortcomings and sense of valuelessness a little more lightly,,, because,, everything is equally valueless..... you say some things that are correct but some things you do not question yourself thoroughly enough, you had a thought or idea and stuck with it as eternal objective truth,,, your quick to believe yourself.... I can only wish i thought i knew.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by NorEaster

 

If you ever inquire very deeply into your true nature you will find that you are nothing,you are void of things, you are nothing percievable or concievable.

..and yet you're replying to my post. Think about that for a moment. Obviously, you are perceiving my response to your previous post. Can you fully explain the clear contradiction here? In real sentences?

It is very unlikely that you would bother to look directly at what you are because most people want to be something, some-body or some-mind (clever mind). It is most peoples biggest fear to find that they are nothing, so i don't expect many will ever know for sure. In fact even the idea of looking to find the ultimate seer within terrifies the mind and the mind will put terror in you to stop you going there.

You really believe that I am terrified to examine my own true physical nature? Are you kidding? If I actually thought that you'd bother with it, I'd send you a free copy of my own very aggressive examination of myself and literally everything that exists. I can assure you that it's anything but timid in its scope and ultimate determination. It doesn't take courage to believe that you don't exist. I don't know what it takes to truly believe that, but it's not courage.

When the mind is seen through the nothingness that is found beyond is empty of thoughts and the world is seen clean and fresh. It is clear from the judgements that mind puts on everything it processes. Seeing and hearing the world without the noise of mind is amazing. There is only ever what is happening, it really is like a movie set because there is no narration anymore.
The movie set is appearing before me and i am the witness. There seems to be two sides to the experience, the movie and then there is me, but they always appear together, as one, they come as a package. When i look to find the me, there is no one there, so all there is; is an image appearing and disappearing.

I'm sorry, but there is no possible way that you could actually experience this complete lack of identity, while expressing the views that you (as an obviously identified human being with a very specific point of view - which provides you with an inimitable Identity, regardless of what you insist) believe are not only accurate, but universally true in such a determined and disciplined manner. And not only do you express these views, but you are relentless in expressing these views. This suggests that your mind is very "noisy" concerning your specific topic of interest, and that this noise forces you to jump in aggressively whenever a thread comes anywhere near being appropriate for your very specific assertions.

I don't look at what you say. I look at what you do. What you do clashes with what you say about what your true nature is. And it's not an insult (as far as I'm concerned anyway) since I'm very much like you myself. The difference between us is that I fully acknowledge that I exist, that I have identity, and that I'm right here when I look to find me. Words are cheap. Reality becomes pretty obvious when you start picking assertions apart and challenging the bits and pieces of those assertions. If an assertion doesn't survive that sort of minute component examination, then the assertion, as a whole, is simply not true or accurate.

reply to post by NorEaster


I percieves because I is awareness. Awareness is the perciever.
I did not say that you should investigate your 'physical nature', i said inquire very deep into your 'true nature'.
Please copy a post that i have written where i 'jump in aggressively'.

I mind not whether any of you understand my posts, i write them as clear as i possibly can. I can see that you are offended but i know it is just the mind that resists. I have much compassion for the being that is controlled by mind.

reply to post by ImaFungi


Why would i be self defending my ignorance?
Ignorance is ignoring your true nature. When you find your true self you will find there is nothing to defend. That is the beauty of finding that you are nothing because when you know you are nothing there is nothing to defend.
I point to the truth and i am on a site that denies ignorance so in pointing to the truth i am denying ignorance.
It is not scary not knowing everything when you can accept that you know nothing and are nothing. The mind is scared that it doesn't know so pretends it does and that is why the human condition is confusion and fear. It 'thinks' it knows but it only 'thinks', it does not know.

When you find your true nature you will 'know' and will never believe anything again.

PS. I do not expect you to believe a word i say, in fact i want you to disbelieve me and find out for yourself.

reply to post by NorEaster


You want me to write in 'real sentences', you want me to speak to the mind. I speak to what is beyond the mind and that is why you (as a mind) cannot understand, you try to understand and understanding is done by the mind. What i speak is not understandable by mind and that is why mind gets so upset.
What you really are is being and being was and is before mind. Mind is like an implant, a system that you have aquired, the mind is what you 'think' you are but it is just a prison (the matrix) that contains you.
It is possible to ascend the mind and see what it is doing and not be controlled by it. I am the witness of everything that is happening presently, i see the mind and know the mind. I know that the mind is a confused and frightened creature, i studied the mind that i carry and i have seen and i know that one mind is like any other.
One mind, one matrix, one prison.
The mind though is no good without being. Mind can do nothing without the being being present. I know i am being and being sees the mind. Being sees and knows and is always present.

reply to post by Th0r

So i'm on a 19 hour bus ride and started to think about the concept of time and why many philosophers refer to time as an illusion

Oh, those lovely bus rides!

The best place for a human to understand life is a journey, with a beginning before the start and an end after the finish, is on an actual journey.

In response to your idea:

Time can be understood as two things. One is time on a universal scale (which we are FAR from comprehending), and one is time on a human level, which we've invented for survival purposes (farming)- but are beginning to outgrow.

It is the second one that is often regarded as an illusion, in the same sense that your name is an illusion - since you're a human like the rest of us - but it sure is handy to know a person by name.


reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

Time is the master of us all

Said the prisoner of the hourglass.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


you are stupid whatever ur name is

finding out that u r nothing is knowing something which is the one everything, that u r forced then to b totally real about, it is not a choice when existence is true

u r evil, which justify being stupid, from what u want that being true is repeating same fact, so clearly u r opposed to truth for ur positive life as an absolute superior fact

truth for extreme stupid head is the least fact of freedom sense from having all in front there, so somthing always more as repeating fact plus

u cant burry the truth while truth is burrying u

Originally posted by absolutely
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

you are stupid whatever ur name is

finding out that u r nothing is knowing something which is the one everything, that u r forced then to b totally real about, it is not a choice when existence is true

u r evil, which justify being stupid, from what u want that being true is repeating same fact, so clearly u r opposed to truth for ur positive life as an absolute superior fact

truth for extreme stupid head is the least fact of freedom sense from having all in front there, so somthing always more as repeating fact plus

u cant burry the truth while truth is burrying u

Stupid and evil and liar are your favorite words.
They are words that expose you. They are words that jump right out of your posts and show you for what you are.
I just wish i could read your posts and make some sense of them, then maybe there would be a chance of real communication.

Maybe you are here just to try and envoke anger and aggression and to promote confusion.

reply to post by NorEaster


at first there was the truth, which is the knowledge that nonexistence is impossible, bc constancy is effectively existing alone, from a theorem stating fact always objective maximum superiority bc fact are free and freedom goes to maximum, when freedom is objective then the maximum is real

freedom goes inherently to maximum while it must b a stand out of all so as a stand possible since it is free so existing it must b attached or related to positive concept certainty

at first there was truth, so before first conscious free existed

the idea i mean here, is what truth mean objective freedom then necessarily any recognition would mean being existing itself free as a fact more then objective truth when truth is existing fact

more to our expressions levels, what i can catch of truth as being possible objective existence always from the idea that there is always a symbol of plus and symbol of fact, force me to b that plus real instead of symbol since im there

tht is why doing constantly the plus concept is the only way of staying out free from the idea or true existing facts
while the freedom out must also to keep its stand realize smthg alone as max positive possible out of all in order to mean its freedom not being concerned by any nor all, but if smthg is brought up as related to its free fact the freedom must recognize being positive max possible in order to mean being else so existing positive right free stand or nothing so self right death

the whole idea of staying out as truth first, accordin to my guess, is the evolution out of the revolution, where truth will become objective freedom so existence will be living free

u as free constant right, would b the only reality instead of being free from reality idea when freedom is truth instead of truth being freedom, so anything will b objectively just itself freedom no relation with anything else

also the idea of equity is not out of absolute facts

equity is from knowing that each thing or fact is always only its freedom out and true freedom is always one fact stand justifications

so for instance there cant b superior and inferiors ones, when bein conscious mean being able to conceive one freedom as just really one, so any object one move wether from up or down would b judged according to that same reference to know if it is right move or wrong

reply to post by Itisnowagain


my favorite words ?? bc i said that u r stupid evil?? so i pass mytime here to type stupid evil words?? spread confusions while keeping meaning urself ?? yea sure, it obviously promotes ur ego glorification showing ur exclusive intent here
u should b incarcerate in jails for running everywhere to mean possessing it, u should b forced in some way to else and everything existence as being much more free and superior and important then u to urself regardless ur reaction to

Originally posted by absolutely
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

my favorite words ?? bc i said that u r stupid evil?? so i pass mytime here to type stupid evil words?? spread confusions while keeping meaning urself ?? yea sure, it obviously promotes ur ego glorification showing ur exclusive intent here
u should b incarcerate in jails for running everywhere to mean possessing it, u should b forced in some way to else and everything existence as being much more free and superior and important then u to urself regardless ur reaction to

I never promote ego. I do not insult 'others' or defend myself, i only promote truth. I see no need to call people names, it is disresectful and never helps the situation. In fact, when i see insults and name calling i see the 'mentality', i see that it is the 'mind' fighting and if it is mind that is in control i know that the real you is a prisoner.
I have compassion for being that is controlled by mind.

People are free to think and believe what they want. I am not insulted that you don't agree with what i write and i don't expect you to.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


since when ego is about insulting others or egoless is about claiming having compassion for others??

u r creating ur own obligations rules or concept, which is the edge of ego showing how u r never but exclusively u as one all

Originally posted by absolutely
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

since when ego is about insulting others or egoless is about claiming having compassion for others??

u r creating ur own obligations rules or concept, which is the edge of ego showing how u r never but exclusively u as one all

I think you should investigate into what ego is.
Or maybe you could tell me what you believe ego is.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


there cant b investigation about ego stupid evil, who insist to get any glorification to itself even from its opposite

what is wrong is whta never exist so only u is all it when u express all ur fancies about ur wills

reply to post by absolutely


'Ego' is just a concept, a word, so in fact cannot be investigated. Nothing can be investigated without it being real, there has to be something real to investigate before an investigation can proceed.
Find the only thing that is real (the one truth) and investigate that.
The truth shall set you free.