A world without time., page 5

reply to post by NorEaster

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I think you are an honest fellow, with honest questions, that is why I enjoy your posts. I also understand what you are saying and agree, to a degree, with it. You have a problem with people claiming time does not exist, and you should! There is evidence of it all around us.

If I want to witness time, I must look back into the past and I must compare the past to the present. Then I can deduce just how the past has imprinted itself upon the present. The future does not exist except as some abstract concept, so we can set that aside. The present doesn't have any quality of time, unless of course I am currently reflecting upon the past and comparing it to the future. Yet, still, this reflection is happening now, in this present moment. If I reflect upon that reflection, then this is also happening now. So, in this sense, timelessness is all there is and the past is also just an abstract concept like the future is.

Now, I know what you're probably thinking. Evidence of time is all around us, even our own body's are perfect representations of time; they are born, they grow, they age and then they die. To try and speak this away is dishonest at best, and more than likely delusional. So, time exists, yes, but within timelessness. In fact, it may be more correct to say: time cannot be said to exist, neither can timelessness be said to exist, nor can it be said that time does not exist, nor can it be said timelessness does not exist. Maybe Socrates statement: "The only thing I know is that I know nothing.", could be revised to state, "I know nothing, not even whether or not I know something." Hopefully that does not confuse you, it is not a mere play on words. Please do not dismiss it immediately. Be sincere and honest in your inquiry and keep it with you for a little bit, think about it.

Peace

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reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

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from which stand r u inviting noreaster to think?? u dont know anything urself as u claim that u even dont know what not knowing is
it is incredible all the supports u get u people of evil that insist upon everything as negative inferior fact being exclusive existence in terms of ur pervert will to force facts definition before ur pretenses of being its matter powers rights

logics of facts are only linear sense, whatever u might say dont change truth nature, u r animals wills of powers that should never speak nor use concepts abstractions

creations is always of things already existing wether by deforming the nature of things or by adding smthg to things as they are truly conceived
there cant b creation out of negative state, the negative strive for zero only to mean plus or freedom else

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy

Originally posted by TruthIncarnate
reply to post by Itisnowagain

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This guy right here is right about everything, has been right about it all throughout this thread. There's no simple way to explain how Itsnowagain is right, or why itsnowagain is right, but he definitely is.

Yes, I agree. The only thing I have ever disagreed with Isnowagain on is the directness he/she speaks in, which isn't really much to disagree with. Its just that some people are not prepared to listen to such things, so it confuses them further. This is, of course, not his/her fault though.

Sometimes you have to hide the medicine in the food, or else the sick child who is fearful of swallowing the medicine will not get better. Some people are so scared of reality that any attempt to show it to them makes them duck for cover and hide, so you might have to first dress it up in a subject they feel strongly interested in.

Thank you Life Is Energy.
You are correct when you say it is not my fault if people don't like what i say. They come to ATS for the truth. If they can't handle the truth they should go watch Disney. I do not need people to like what i say (most don't), i study mind and it's confused state, ATS is a great place to see mind in action. ATS is also a great place to write.
I may come across as direct and that is because i am not personal and i am not speaking to any person, i am talking to the pure being. The true nature, the pure being, will understand what i write. I find directness to be less confusing.
Behind the veil of mind is pure being and it is there in every body but the mind is holding the being as a slave, i speak to the being to free it from slavery, from bondage, so it can be free from fear and confusion (the human condition).
The truth is going to be harsh for anyone who has been lied to all their lives. Watch 'The matrix' to see how harsh it was for Neo when he woke up to the truth.
If the suffering the mind inflicts is bearable one will continue with the pain believing it is normal. However, when the deceptive mind is seen for what it is the fear and confusion will end and a peace that surpasses all understanding will be known.

This is for anyone who is ready to free themselves from the illusion.

Part 1 youtu.be...
Part 2 youtu.be...
Part 3 youtu.be...

I can highly recommend the book 'I Am That' talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

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"Behind the veil of mind is pure being and it is there in every body"

this is a state of being you are speaking of similar to meditation,,, or when people lay out on the beach ..,,.., if people want to exist only in the state of pure being they usually become monks or something,,, because being in this state you speak of, one cannot know anything,,,,, knowing, knowledge comes from the mind, comes from sorting, organizing, memorizing, and making sense of the external world.,.,., if you want to live within the pure state of being of that of a baby then you will know as much as a baby...... they do say ignorance is bliss...

reply to post by ImaFungi

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what u recall as mind being is not the true mind, the true mind is the self being abstraction so it is the true being as being real

the geniun free pleasant awareness of everyone is not true, it is a connection to freedom truth, the sense of being out of everything fine or right, but it is not true being, while being is what act for everything fine or right prior to its positive sense means, so the reality of that true sense

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy

Originally posted by TruthIncarnate
reply to post by Itisnowagain

---

This guy right here is right about everything, has been right about it all throughout this thread. There's no simple way to explain how Itsnowagain is right, or why itsnowagain is right, but he definitely is.

Yes, I agree. The only thing I have ever disagreed with Isnowagain on is the directness he/she speaks in, which isn't really much to disagree with. Its just that some people are not prepared to listen to such things, so it confuses them further. This is, of course, not his/her fault though.

Sometimes you have to hide the medicine in the food, or else the sick child who is fearful of swallowing the medicine will not get better. Some people are so scared of reality that any attempt to show it to them makes them duck for cover and hide, so you might have to first dress it up in a subject they feel strongly interested in.

Thank you Life Is Energy.
You are correct when you say it is not my fault if people don't like what i say. They come to ATS for the truth. If they can't handle the truth they should go watch Disney. I do not need people to like what i say (most don't), i study mind and it's confused state, ATS is a great place to see mind in action. ATS is also a great place to write.
I may come across as direct and that is because i am not personal and i am not speaking to any person, i am talking to the pure being. The true nature, the pure being, will understand what i write. I find directness to be less confusing.
Behind the veil of mind is pure being and it is there in every body but the mind is holding the being as a slave, i speak to the being to free it from slavery, from bondage, so it can be free from fear and confusion (the human condition).
The truth is going to be harsh for anyone who has been lied to all their lives. Watch 'The matrix' to see how harsh it was for Neo when he woke up to the truth.
If the suffering the mind inflicts is bearable one will continue with the pain believing it is normal. However, when the deceptive mind is seen for what it is the fear and confusion will end and a peace that surpasses all understanding will be known.

edit on 11-6-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

I think the reason your posts are contemptible is the way you assert and claim absolute truth, when anyone with any sort of brainpower whatsoever knows how fallacious that sort of reasoning is. This is the reason people might attack your posts, because you're taking an authoritative stance on everything, as if you are the sole keeper of truth, when we all know you hold just another interpretation as we all do.

This can be solved, and all contemptability avoided, by simply putting "In my opinion..." in front of every assertion and sweeping claim you make. I try to do the same, as to not come off as an absolutist.

Do you realize that in 2500+ years of philosophy and metaphysics, no one has ever been right about anything?

Good luck!

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

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this is the point, he refuse to b relative, for him all is one so him is free from all as only him

this is the problem with those free wills reasons, they destroy any and everything being existing bc they force it being one all prior to state their existence out

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

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Do you realize that in 2500+ years of philosophy and metaphysics, no one has ever been right about anything?

Then why do you call yourself a "philosopher"? Why do you keep searching? Is it you who will find what no one in "2500+ years" could find? If you truly felt the above statement is true, then you and Itisnowagain would be in total agreement.

Hmmm....

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

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Do you realize that in 2500+ years of philosophy and metaphysics, no one has ever been right about anything?

Then why do you call yourself a "philosopher"? Why do you keep searching? Is it you who will find what no one in "2500+ years" could find? If you truly felt the above statement is true, then you and Itisnowagain would be in total agreement.

Hmmm....

Searching for what? If you assume I'm searching for something, you're mistaken.

Since you assume so, it leads me to believe that you are searching for something. What are you searching for? I'll wager you'll come up with nothing.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

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The "philosopher" who is searching for nothing, not even the truth.

Do you even read your own posts?

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

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The "philosopher" who is searching for nothing, not even the truth.

Do you even read your own posts?

I try to as much as possible!

To explain further: I studied philosophy for the better part of a decade. I read everything from Plato, Aristotle, Kant, Hume, Locke, Machiavelli, Russell, Shopenhauer etc. and I thought I knew everything. But it wasn't until I read Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil, where he pretty much undermined every philosopher's ideas, even his own and whatever I conceived as "truth" at the time. I almost felt that my time studying it was wasted. He basically shows how all philosophies are mere interpretation, not truth or text. Even truth itself is a childish concept.

Try reading it and maybe you'll begin to feel the way I feel about philosophy and philosophers.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

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Right, I see what you're saying. But Itisnowagain, is not philosophizing, conceptualizing or theorizing. You say, he/she can only know subjective truth, thus he/she should start every post with "in my opinion...". Well, maybe he/she should start their post as such, but not because it bears any resemblance to subjective truth, rather just to make you feel comfortable enough to actually read the wisdom he/she is speaking. As Itisnowagain already said, he/she is not speaking from or to the person, rather the 'pure being'. There is no subjective or objective truth in that, because there is no subject speaking. The whole notion of a 'subject' has been seen as incorrect, now all that remains is the pure being that always was and always will be. I know, its too difficult for you to get right now, so it must be wrong. Whatever.

Although I have enjoyed reading some of Friedrich Nietzsche, he was a child playing in the sandbox of life compared to the Buddha, Ramana Maharshi, Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Ajahn Chah... and others who have spoken about what Itisnowagain sees. They were not merely philosophizing about life with a cynical mind, they were living life to its fullest potential, beyond all limiting factors.

Friedrich Nietzsche did say something really profound once though, which all these sages would have to agree with him on, which is: "And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

www.123helpme.com...

reply to post by ImaFungi

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Thanks, that was an interesting read, but I think this sentence sums that article up nicely: "There is also good reason to believe that Nietzsche’s knowledge of Buddhism was inaccurate and incomplete..." Anyone who sees Buddhism as "life-denying and nihilistic" clearly has no understanding of the Dhamma.

Peace.

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by ImaFungi

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Thanks, that was an interesting read, but I think this sentence sums that article up nicely: "There is also good reason to believe that Nietzsche’s knowledge of Buddhism was inaccurate and incomplete..." Anyone who sees Buddhism as "life-denying and nihilistic" clearly has no understanding of the Dhamma.

Peace.

i understand where nietzse was coming from i understand where buddhism is coming from..... nietzshe was around in a time of great technological and scientific progression,.,.,.., i think a mixture of,,,the sincerity, kindness, intellectual patience and understanding,, appreciation of fellow man, exhibited by buddhists along with time spent studying reality and making rational and conscious de scions of how humans would like the future to be lived and experienced would be a nice blend..,,.,.,.,. i think a problem,, and i kind of agree,,, is nietzhe didnt want to abolishment of the human spirit and spontaneity,, he wouldnt want a civilization of drone like humans working in perfect cooperation towards one agreeable goal, because he valued the diversity and struggle and achievement of the individual.... having everyone be perfect to each other at all times would restrict ones freedom to attempt originality and find a valuable path the herd maybe would never think of....... i could be wrong bout that though,, maybe nietzshe would have enjoyed the unity of man ( meaning the abolishment of meaningless conflict)

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

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I don't find anything profound about those people, even though I used to be buddhist. Their ideas are romantic and beautiful, nothing more. Their ideas are enticing. But they're men who speak no more truth than other men. They're dogmatic because they pretend to speak absolute truth. That is deception. Although they may be insightful, and at times offer good advice, they don't offer any keys to life. No one does. In my eyes, they are merely idealists, pushers of doctrines, and spiritual scam artists.

Of course this is my opinion. Yours obviously differs.

I've never seen anything that constitutes pure being before in my life. I wish there was such a thing, but its apparent there isn't. No matter how much hope, wishfulness and yearning we put into a thing such as a pure being, won't make it true. Yeah I agree, it's a cool idea, but my biases don't mean anything. No one can even define "pure being," "truth," "love" etc. so when they claim they know, everyone has a right to laugh in their face.

To me it's simple: No one has authority when it comes to truth. Not jesus, not buddha, not itsnowagain, me etc. We don't have a right to it.

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by ImaFungi

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Thanks, that was an interesting read, but I think this sentence sums that article up nicely: "There is also good reason to believe that Nietzsche’s knowledge of Buddhism was inaccurate and incomplete..." Anyone who sees Buddhism as "life-denying and nihilistic" clearly has no understanding of the Dhamma.

Peace.

You haven't read his work. You cannot refute something until you have at least read it.

I don't agree with much of what Nietzsche wrote, but he makes good points on why Buddhism and Christianity are fundamentally nihilistic

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