Where are the "HIGH LEVEL" masons?

reply to post by MagnaCarta19

HOWEVER, in relation to how fascinating and seemingly enlightening regular Freemasonry is.. would you not say it's rather unbalanced that the organization is so in the shadows?

I think Masonry has had its ups and downs, and it is currently in a down. It was important and influential for awhile, and then outlawed and despised for awhile, and then coveted and revered for awhile, and then it drifted off, and at this current time there is just too much going on the world and Masonry is forgotten. I don't think it is in the shadows, I think it is just plain ignored while people go on worrying more about instant gratification or just getting by from day to day. There isn't a lot of call for an old art and boring teachings that don't offer any reward other than self-enlightenment.

Hopefully Masonry will rebound and not just fade away.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Don't fret man, I have several friends who are like me and have a thirst for information that cannot be quenched as well as a desire to help elevate man instead of descend into bestial lusts.

There's a renaissance happening right now with the younger crowd like me...If I were you I would expect to see a lot more inquisitive young men in the lodge.

Originally posted by protocolsoflove
There's a renaissance happening right now with the younger crowd like me...If I were you I would expect to see a lot more inquisitive young men in the lodge.

We have. I have already brought in 14 new members in the first half of the year and when we return in September I have 10 more ready for membership.

reply to post by MagnaCarta19

How many ways can I explain that Freemasonry is far too decentralized and with far too many variables for "an infiltration" to effectively occur? I've been told that our money is controlled by an invisible group. That our rituals were changed by unknowns. That our leadership reports to others, not the voting members. All of these claims I have shot down with basic common sense and actual fact.

But hey, have fun refuting everything (usually seemingly with the response of "this is not the case because by virtue of being a low-level Mason I am automatically more knowledgeable and I say this is the case").

My first hand experience and knowledge trumps what someone wrote on the internet. The foolishness that I've seen written against the Freemasons makes me laugh sometimes. So much of it simply fabricated too.

The rest of us see a sinister pattern that emerges.

You see what you want to see. When you're a hammer you're going to see nails everywhere.

If Freemasonry is so enlightening and improves you as a person, why aren't Freemasons knocking at my door spreading the good news? Or at least have a successful TV channel or something. I'll leave you to answer that question.

We don't seek converts because one should come to us seeking to improve himself. Freemasonry takes you to water, but doesn't force you to drink. One must improve himself by his own endeavors, a virtuous education, and the blessing of God.

reply to post by MagnaCarta19

If you were part of a secret "all powerful" group, do you not think that they would have the ability to know when they are being discussed? Would they not have the means to find the leak?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by protocolsoflove
There's a renaissance happening right now with the younger crowd like me...If I were you I would expect to see a lot more inquisitive young men in the lodge.

We have. I have already brought in 14 new members in the first half of the year and when we return in September I have 10 more ready for membership.

My Lodge has had a huge influx of youth and vigor lately as well! When I joined I was the youngest member in the Lodge by far! During my first 3 years, since participation and attendance was so low, I sat in a chair pretty much every meeting, and I became Worshipful Master in less than 3 years from the day I took my EA degree.

Since that time, we have now had MANY young men join, participation is up, we have added a couple of new charity projects, we have remodeled the Lodge, and we currently have a 29 year old WM that worked his way through every Chair 1 year at a time the way it is supposed to work.

I'm very proud of my Lodge at the moment, and I hope this trend continues. I think it is great for Masonry, and great for our communities, and I think it is just another sign of the times.

reply to post by KSigMason


You can have the best pipe in the world, but if a certain volume and pressure of water is forced down it.. it'll still leak

Yes of course they'd have a very comprehensive surveillance unit. And yeah of course it'd include a program that picks up certain words and phrases, anyone with Linux can create such a setup. But this guy posted anonymously and I'm guessing with an intricate setup that prevents his IP address being discovered (more than just Tor obviously). So why can't a guy feel comfortable with posting certain things that don't bring up significant red flags? "All-powerful organizations" have systems just like anyone else. If you learn the system, you can beat the system. The idea of absolute power is an illusion designed to intimidate. The Illuminati aren't as powerful or organized as they think they are, and most of them know that. They completely failed to get a grip on the internet in it's early stages, and that's why hackers like Anonymous can exist today. That was just an example by the way, I know you don't believe such an organization exists so take it hypothetically and substitute Illuminati with whatever suits you.

I'm not saying this guys the real deal by the way, just wondering why you're so dismissive (only joking, I know why.. but I felt like I should provide a different viewpoint)

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by MagnaCarta19

 

HOWEVER, in relation to how fascinating and seemingly enlightening regular Freemasonry is.. would you not say it's rather unbalanced that the organization is so in the shadows?

I think Masonry has had its ups and downs, and it is currently in a down. It was important and influential for awhile, and then outlawed and despised for awhile, and then coveted and revered for awhile, and then it drifted off, and at this current time there is just too much going on the world and Masonry is forgotten. I don't think it is in the shadows, I think it is just plain ignored while people go on worrying more about instant gratification or just getting by from day to day. There isn't a lot of call for an old art and boring teachings that don't offer any reward other than self-enlightenment.

Hopefully Masonry will rebound and not just fade away.

Yeah protocolsoflove is right, there is a renewed interest in the kinds of values and knowledge and wisdom that Grand Lodge or first-three-degree Freemasonry teaches (that's what I call it, basically anything other than SR/YR or irregular P2-type lodges.. I don't care how much you tell me the rites are just as innocent as the Grand Lodges, I will disagree so don't bother.. and no I'm not saying everyone in SR/YR is trying to bring about the NWO, of course as usual 99% of them have only good intentions for mankind). I'm only 19 years old and I have a tremendous amount of respect for your art. I really do I think it's mesmerizing. Although as a system of allegory to describe the inner workings of the universe, so far I think the O.T.O and Thelema have it down (more so than Masonry). Which is why I won't be joining the UGLE personally. But that's just me. And no that's not because I think Thelema gives you magical powers and makes you a superhero, before someone plays that card. I just think it's more progressed and the rest of Masonry are like the die-hard conservatives who refuse to adapt. But what do I know? After all I'm just a child who spends too much time on the internet.. or so they tell me.

reply to post by KSigMason


1) You're misunderstanding what kind of infiltration I'm talking about. To be honest I can't really be bothered to explain because you're clearly a diehard and you're quite dedicated and you're just gonna tell me I'm wrong.

2) I'm sorry but you're acting like everything on the internet has been fabricated and has no credible source and I know you know that's not true. And your first hand experience doesn't automatically give you the trump card, to claim that you would have to know every crook and cranny and every last bit of information about Freemasonry and if you're trying to claim that, I'm gonna have to call you a liar.

3) You'd think but I'm actually not like that. I know you can't take my word for it but it's all I can say really.

4) Yeah I get it, as I said it was more of a joke.

May I just point out that this whole thread runs counter to ATS policy

"AboveTopSecret.com is a venue for speculating on and discussing conspiracy theories and is not now nor ever will be expected to be a destination dedicated to the defense of Masonry."

It's good to hear your opinions as a counter-balance. But I gotta say it's disrespectful to come here and label people like me wacko's and idiots for discussing conspiracy theories related to Masonry. >THATS WHAT THIS FORUM IS INTENDED FOR

reply to post by MagnaCarta19

My point remains, you'd still know where the leak came from.

So some "anonymous" posted something on the Internet and you bought into it?

reply to post by MagnaCarta19

At 19, you still have much to learn.

reply to post by MagnaCarta19

1) I could say the same to you. I don't think you really understand the internal operations, degree structure, and hierarchy of Freemasonry.

2) I said "most", not "all". First hand experience is a trump card. I have learned time and time again that book experience will only take you so far. I don't claim to every nook and cranny, but I have a very strong work knowledge of the Craft, from my experience, my travels, and my personal research.

reply to post by MagnaCarta19

The Masons here are far outnumbered by threads started and members. We are here discussing the threads. I did not see where this was to be a one sided discussion for just anti-Masons.

Originally posted by MagnaCarta19
Making threads in defense of Masonry is a rather redundant act no?

Bwahahahaha! But making the same accusations over, and over, and over, and over again is not?

If we are doing something wrong, we will be dealt with by the moderators. Did you get a promotion and forget to list it on your avitar?

GTFO indeed.

reply to post by KSigMason


Your point remains but it's irrelevant. You'd know where the leak came from (the website) but not the individual who perpetrated it (given the individual has taken the necessary steps to protect his identity). Thus said individual could feel comfortable with revealing some information without fear of getting caught. TPTB tracking said activity would only know the username, but how do you know who to kill/silence if you can't triangulate the IP address?

Nope, I already said that I'm not trying to assert that BlueShift is telling the truth. Nice try.

Yes, much to learn indeed. Looking forward to it, but my lack of knowledge cannot be used to discredit what knowledge I do have. Well, not entirely.

Haha, I was hoping you'd say something like that. Well let's see here. You have the first three degrees which are Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft and Master Mason. These are conferred by Craft Lodges/Blue Lodges which operate under the authority of the Grand Lodge in each country. Then there are the two major appendant bodies which are the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite and the York Rite. The York rite covers Royal Arch, Cryptic Masonry and Knight Templar. The Scottish Rite has 33 degrees which incorporate expanded versions of the first three. In America it is much more common to undertake the Scottish Rite, whereas the UGLE isn't as big on it. Allegory, numerology, symbology, cryptography etc etc I mean I could into details, test me if you like. Either I'll know it or it'll be just be a google search and some verification from various sources and you'd be none the wiser. I learn quick.

What's been discussed on the thread is irrelevant. The very nature of it runs counter to the statement expressed by the site owner in regards to the policy concerning defense of Freemasonry. I dunno, I'm not a lawyer but it sounds like the OP has completely disregarded this policy. I'm not that bothered really but if the punishment were to be thread deletion, in a judicial capacity I'd rule guilty. Not that any of you give a damn but whatever.

reply to post by network dude


I didn't make the accusation over and over. I made it once, did you read things that weren't there?

No I didn't get a promotion. Do I need one to point out that you're f**ing with the constitution of this forum? Please inform me if I do

What you think cause you have a higher post count you can talk sh!t? I'm not the one breaking the rules

I don't care what the mods do, I just wanted to point it out to provoke the kind of amusing reaction you're displaying

reply to post by MagnaCarta19


Actually it is breaking the rules to circumvent the forum censors.

reply to post by W3RLIED2


Expected that, ok I lied.. I broke one rule, I swore I'll go sit in the naughty corner

I never said rules aren't made to be broken. A man governs and determines himself by virtue of his individual sovereignty right?

Originally posted by MagnaCarta19
These are conferred by Craft Lodges/Blue Lodges which operate under the authority of the Grand Lodge in each country...The Scottish Rite has 33 degrees which incorporate expanded versions of the first three.

The Scottish Rite has 29 Degrees as it recognizes what is typically the first three dedgrees of the York Rite. Its members are also under the purview of each states Grand Lodge and must remain in good standing to be a member.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Hmm, others say differently. But whatever I'll play ball. There's only 29 Ok.

"And must remain in good standing to be a member" Right, and what or who defines what is good standing and what breaches it?

Originally posted by MagnaCarta19
Hmm, others say differently. But whatever I'll play ball. There's only 29 Ok.

The only place in the United States that there is 33 is in Louisiana which does not use the York Rite for the first three degrees.

"And must remain in good standing to be a member" Right, and what defines what is good standing and what breaches it?

One must have their dues paid to date and also can not do anything which would get you expelled from the Blue Lodge. Each states constitution lists offenses which would cause such expulsion, examples would be, but are no limited to, conviction of a crime or un-Masonic conduct.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Yes and I'm sure if you got caught robbing an old lady you'd be expelled. But I wonder who can get away with what and still run the show. The king is rarely truly subject to the laws that he decrees upon on his people.