The Afghanistan Exit Will Humiliate The United States Worse Than Vietnam

I would agree that the momentum had changed..at that point we ramped up bombing efforts and killed pretty much all who were not america near us..I'm not sure if you love history or you love the idea that the US is not perfect. I take it you are not from the United States because like it or not if you are it is still your government like it or not...Not many Americans would admit even when things were going great that our country is perfect...perfect for me would be stopping all aid to all other countries and focussing it on the people in this country...perfect would be not prosecuting or passing judgment on religion for the action of a few and perfect would be not using race as a devisive tool. I wouldn't say we are perfect but funny how a great deal of other cultures try to imitate us wether it's through the god awful music some listen to,,,dress/lifestyle choices...so as much as we can find many countries that hate us someone there is always going to be rocken some type of clothing or logo that originated from here in the good old US because it's so damn cool...

reply to post by michaelbrux


So what's the answer and where did you get your information from to draw your conclusion..

reply to post by michaelbrux

at least the other guy didn't write much. wrong answer!

Ha! That was awesome.

I would love to hear your mysterious answers that you seem to think you have.

there are no mysterious answers.

the only answer that matters is that all your wars have come to an end, your leaders are dead or in jail and what's left of your men at arms only come out under cover of darkness and don't even cause much of a problem.

you've been reduced to an army of conspiracy forum rumor mongers and hackers that barely get airtime on the MSM.

and America is going to making more money than before the war after its shook up population gets over its PTSD...

Originally posted by michaelbrux
there are no mysterious answers.

the only answer that matters is that all your wars have come to an end, your leaders are dead or in jail and what's left of your men at arms only come out under cover of darkness and don't even cause much of a problem.

you've been reduced to an army of conspiracy forum rumor mongers and hackers that barely get airtime on the MSM.

and America is going to making more money than before the war after its shook up population gets over its PTSD...

and your question was?


Your answer ranks right up there with the kid from The Christmas Story using his decoder ring to discover it was a commercial to drink more ovaltine...damn..in the words of Florida...Damn Damn Damn

"what single event caused the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan beginning on May 15, 1988?

the answer can be given in one sentence...what's is it?"

Seriously you tell us that the answer is one sentence and you hand us that for the answer...I'll go with the misinformation...

edit on 25-5-2012 by michaelbrux because: (no reason given)

reply to post by michaelbrux

the only answer that matters is that all your wars have come to an end, your leaders are dead or in jail and your men at arms only come out under cover of darkness and don't even cause much of a problem

They are not my leaders. I am an Australian. Im just saying that America seems in a no win situation as far as Afghanistan goes. And it kind of serves them right for meddling in the affairs of other nations. Especially when their intentions are obviously questionable. I do not support the Taliban Or terrorists.

The whole thing is a waste of taxpayer money and a lie is the problem that I have with it.

Originally posted by Germanicus

Originally posted by Tazkven
reply to post by Germanicus

 

Speaking the truth isn't being rude. I stated exactly what you did through the course of this thread. The flow of THIS thread and how you flip flop IS being on topic but obviously not the conversation you wish to have.

Well it seems you have a problem with more than just this thread. You have made that clear. I will have any conversation you like. And I am conflicted to be honest. Like I said,just because you are a paranoid defensive scared American doesnt mean Im anti-american because I have the audacity to be critical of the United States Government. It affects me too. You would see that if you were not so scared and egocentric.

But you are being padantic at best. If you point out the specific problems I will include an apology in the thread for you.

Oh come on man

Your tactic of being aggressive, then backing off and trying to play the victim (while flinging insults, mind you) is a cool tactic but that stuff don't work on me. You and everyone else here knows your anti-USA and pro China and you know what, I really don't care.

You state things like ...

Originally posted by Germanicus
They are looking to move their military bullies primarily into the pacific.

I could quote tons more of your opinions mixed in with facts in the OP but I am sure you get the point. but also one second you say ...

Originally posted by Germanicus
I think Afghanistan will be better off when they get rid of the United states. Vietnam turned out fine.

Then turn around and say ...

Originally posted by Germanicus
The US almost has an obligation to protect these people now that they have involved themselves.

Geez, make up your mind

Not even getting into the comment of you saying who "WE" need to vote like your suddenly an American now, which by the way, cool move editing that (almost all of your) post(s)

But I will play your game ... if your conflicted then fine, stop telling us how doomed the US is and nit picking every mistake ever made (remind me of my girlfriend, sheesh) and how great China is and maybe we will believe how "conflicted" you are.

reply to post by Germanicus


im sure Jane Fonda would agree,,along with, Americans who spat on there own Soldiers,,"for killing babies women and children"
Of course Westmorland was not tactical genius,,and war can not be fought,,by using pie charts and graphs,,from Ford. That would be MacNamera,,not exactly a genius at war either.

but hey propaganda seems too have been a major factor.
Bomb HANOI,,INTO DIRT,,NEVER HAPPENED.
ohh wait,,why would an army want too take out a COMAND AND CONTROL CENTRE?
NOT VERY GOOD TACTICS,,
factoid
ho che min wanted to base the Vietnamese Constituition on the American Constitution,,but was turned down by the STATE dept. at the request of the French Govt.
boy did they blow that one.

reply to post by Germanicus


considering that you can't answer simple questions with simple answers...i'd estimate that you aren't in any position to determine America's situation in Afghanistan or anywhere else.

you probably don't even know what America is...i'd expect an answer from you to be little more than pointing to a place on a map.

i'm not completely convinced that the US isn't fighting NATO and Australia in Afghanistan. but we will all find out soon enough. if that turns out to be the case, life down under is going to suck worse than ever before.

reply to post by chrismarco


go with the misinformation...i'd prefer that to actually telling you the correct answer.

some of you need to be taught a lesson concerning the value of what you believe in.

the reason I know this thread is bunk and that people that support its premise are full of crap is that it paints a picture that no matter what the US does...it is doomed to fail.

if the US stays in Afghanistan it loses.
if the US leaves Afghanistan it loses.
if the US sits on the fence between Afghanistan and somewhere else it loses.

no matter what, you are trying to sell the idea of the US losing whatever it does.

that's how I know YOU are all full of #.

reply to post by Germanicus


Your wrong. The United States actually won the Tet Offensive. The communists lost 70% of their fighting force during the Tet Offensive due to not being well versed in actually attacking the ARVN and US armed forces in a face to face battle.

I really don't know where you get your facts from. My uncle earned a bronze star in Vietnam. And we have talked at length about his time overseas. He said the war was won early on, but political factors handcuffed the soldiers in winning the war outright.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
the reason I know this thread is bunk and that people that support its premise are full of crap is that it paints a picture that no matter what the US does...it is doomed to fail.

if the US stays in Afghanistan it loses.
if the US leaves Afghanistan it loses.
if the US sits on the fence between Afghanistan and somewhere else it loses.

no matter what, you are trying to sell the idea of the US losing whatever it does.

that's how I know YOU are all full of #.

All this kid does is blast America and all of its "pathetic deluded little mini-capitalists".

And quite frankly, I am sick and tired of ready the trash that he throws up on ATS. When will we all learn that we are all human beings regardless of where we live and the type of government we are forced to live under. I'm sure there isn't an American alive that has done anything to affect this guys life, for better or for worse.

I would like to see him travel to the US and spout off at the mouth at the wrong place at the wrong time. Couple of "good 'ole boys" would teach him to learn to keep his trap shut.

Originally posted by olliemc84
reply to post by Germanicus

 

Your wrong. The United States actually won the Tet Offensive. The communists lost 70% of their fighting force during the Tet Offensive due to not being well versed in actually attacking the ARVN and US armed forces in a face to face battle.

I really don't know where you get your facts from. My uncle earned a bronze star in Vietnam. And we have talked at length about his time overseas. He said the war was won early on, but political factors handcuffed the soldiers in winning the war outright.

I already said that it wasnt a typical 'victory' and that many died. You are wrong. The Tet Offensive was the turning point. They shocked the Americans and it was genius moving everything into place. Casualties are not something that tells the full story momentum shifted. and...

On 9 June President Johnson replaced Westmoreland as commander of MACV with General Creighton W. Abrams. Although the decision had been made in December 1967 and Westmoreland was made Army Chief of Staff, many saw his relief as punishment for the entire Tet debacle.[216] Abrams' new strategy was quickly demonstrated by the closure of the "strategic" Khe Sanh base and the ending of multi-division "search and destroy" operations. Also gone were discussions of victory over North Vietnam. Abrams' new "One War" policy centered the American effort on the takeover of the fighting by the South Vietnamese (through Vietnamization), the pacification of the countryside, and the destruction of communist logistics.[217] The new administration of President Richard M. Nixon would oversee the withdrawal of U.S. forces and the continuation of negotiations

en.wikipedia.org...
The Tet Offensive turned the tide. The wiki article is obviously written by an American so the opinion is biased like that of your uncle. Talk to some vietnamese celebrating the Tet Offensive with fireworks and you will get a different opinion.

The Tet Offensive turned the tide. It is clear. So it was a victory.

reply to post by olliemc84

I would like to see him travel to the US and spout off at the mouth at the wrong place at the wrong time. Couple of "good 'ole boys" would teach him to learn to keep his trap shut.

But not you hey. I am not anti-american. I disagree with the American Governments foreign policy. So do alot of people. I know that you must love Obama and his foriegn policy but some peopel disagree.That is what I am interested in. American foriegn policy. It impacts me all the way in Australia believe it or not. If you do not like my threads do not read them.

reply to post by Germanicus


The Tet Offensive turned the tide. no once again u are just book smart,,we lived it.
Daily violent demonstrations by peace niks,,ya oxymoron
turned the tide.
tet offensive brilliant startegic manouver,,as was logistic support, for the offensive,,the
American/Russian/Vietnamese/Cambodian/Chinese/Canadian/Australian,,etcc Soldiers,,,just followed the TACTICS,laid out before them,,
both north and south, vietnam suffered the physical,l damage. who won,,?
in the end PEACE did.

I won't be humiliated, I'll feel happy that we're out of war.

Originally posted by Germanicus

Originally posted by olliemc84
reply to post by Germanicus

 

Your wrong. The United States actually won the Tet Offensive. The communists lost 70% of their fighting force during the Tet Offensive due to not being well versed in actually attacking the ARVN and US armed forces in a face to face battle.

I really don't know where you get your facts from. My uncle earned a bronze star in Vietnam. And we have talked at length about his time overseas. He said the war was won early on, but political factors handcuffed the soldiers in winning the war outright.

I already said that it wasnt a typical 'victory' and that many died. You are wrong. The Tet Offensive was the turning point. They shocked the Americans and it was genius moving everything into place. Casualties are not something that tells the full story momentum shifted. and...

On 9 June President Johnson replaced Westmoreland as commander of MACV with General Creighton W. Abrams. Although the decision had been made in December 1967 and Westmoreland was made Army Chief of Staff, many saw his relief as punishment for the entire Tet debacle.[216] Abrams' new strategy was quickly demonstrated by the closure of the "strategic" Khe Sanh base and the ending of multi-division "search and destroy" operations. Also gone were discussions of victory over North Vietnam. Abrams' new "One War" policy centered the American effort on the takeover of the fighting by the South Vietnamese (through Vietnamization), the pacification of the countryside, and the destruction of communist logistics.[217] The new administration of President Richard M. Nixon would oversee the withdrawal of U.S. forces and the continuation of negotiations

en.wikipedia.org...
The Tet Offensive turned the tide. The wiki article is obviously written by an American so the opinion is biased like that of your uncle. Talk to some vietnamese celebrating the Tet Offensive with fireworks and you will get a different opinion.

The Tet Offensive turned the tide. It is clear. So it was a victory.

There is no bias coming from my uncle. Just fact. My uncle pulled his best friend to this day out of the jungle after coming under direct fire from VC. He was in this #. He was there. Lived it every day. I will believe him any day of the week before I believe you and your wikipedia sources.

The only thing that turned the tide of the war was the public disapproval of Vietnam after seeing the massive amount of Vietnamese casualties from the Tet Offensive. Yes, fighting got intense after Tet, but most were small-unit operations. The American publics pressure on the government kept Abram's hands tied, and it then turned into a clandestine "Phoenix Program" which saw defectors from the VC/NVA , South Vietnamese police, and the CIA to eliminate the VC infrastructure.

Hamburger Hill and the My Lai massacre pretty much sealed the fate of the war when people at home started hearing inflated numbers of US casualties. And Nixon's inefficiency to go into Cambodia and Laos to take out the NVA strongholds was the turning point in the war. Again, not Tet. Tet was a failure.

Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by olliemc84

 

I would like to see him travel to the US and spout off at the mouth at the wrong place at the wrong time. Couple of "good 'ole boys" would teach him to learn to keep his trap shut.

But not you hey. I am not anti-american. I disagree with the American Governments foreign policy. So do alot of people. I know that you must love Obama and his foriegn policy but some peopel disagree.That is what I am interested in. American foriegn policy. It impacts me all the way in Australia believe it or not. If you do not like my threads do not read them.

edit on 25-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)

I would gladly teach you how to keep your mouth shut.

I could care less about Obama, his foreign policy, or any other politician, All they are are glorified lawyers and businessmen that do NOT have my best interest in mind.

I read your threads because I run into some points you make that I can actually agree with. But this one I wont agree with.

Because I don't think we will ever leave Afghanistan. To many resources to profit on.

reply to post by olliemc84

The only thing that turned the tide of the war was the public disapproval of Vietnam after seeing the massive amount of Vietnamese casualties from the Tet Offensive.

Correct. It did turn public opinion. That is part of why it was a victory despite high casualties. The wiki source downplays the impact of the Tet Offensive on the public. It had a major affect.

It also marked the end of 'search and destroy' tactics. After the Tet they soon changed their longterm strategy. which was now,to get out and save face. It didnt turn out that way. I only saw this stuff on a doco recently. I had never seen the footage of all those poor people begging to get a lift to safety. The communist Tanks rolling in and flying the communist Peoples Army Flag. I was surprised. I knew America lost but not like that. It seems to be glossed over.