The Afghanistan Exit Will Humiliate The United States Worse Than Vietnam

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posted on May, 26 2012 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by superballs

Originally posted by RadiantMonkey
reply to post by superballs
 


um no that wasn't an attempt at a response
... im asking you what does it matter where iam from? How else would you like me to explain that? If you like i can translate it into any language using "Google Translator"..
edit on 26-5-2012 by RadiantMonkey because: (no reason given)


because u america haters never wanna tell where ur from ...

its funny how ashamed are u of ur country

lol doesnt really matter anyone who says u just got owned is like 14 and ur opinion really doesnt count

so get on to bed


I'm not willing to disclose my information on a public forum where trolls and shills lurk. I feel that it should be my decision and not yours, so don't get your panties in a bunch.. ok?

Btw...: I could only understand a few word's in the language that you were typing in, so I copied and pasted it into "Google Translator" to try to create a better response for you. But the only language it would recognize was "Dumbass". Its time for you to get some "Edumacation" and stop trolling on ATS..

edit on 26-5-2012 by RadiantMonkey because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 27 2012 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by superballs
 


Agree 100% there.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by RadiantMonkey
I would rather die fighting a lonesome battle without the US involved in it rather then die fighting along side murders.. but meh..


Yeah, because all US troops are murderers. Bought into that BS hook, line and sinker, didn't you, Sheep?


Originally posted by RadiantMonkey
Even though my country doesn't have mud hut's you shouldn't talk badly about the country's that do. I mean considering New Orleans is still a damn wasteland..


Really? Haven't been to New Orleans, have you? It's no where near a "wasteland"


Originally posted by RadiantMonkey
if i were you id shut your mouth. Cus you just got owned


Sorry, did I hurt your feelings? Owned? You mean like I owned your mom last night?


Originally posted by RadiantMonkey
BTW... how on earth could you provide food, shelter, and medicine if YOUR country cannot even provide this for there own citizens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Well, keep that in mind when your mudhut is washed away and don't ask the US for anything.


Originally posted by RadiantMonkey
Get your big head out of your ass
edit on 26-5-2012 by RadiantMonkey because: (no reason given)


What are you, 12? Time to move out of Mom's basement. And make your bed, you look like a meth-head.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
America has always needed help from another country to win its wars, whether it was the American Revolution with the French fighting the British for you...


You do realize doing the American Revolution, the people in the Colonies were British Citizens. We were rebelling against the English. So, really can't call us "Americans" at that time. And the French did have an agenda or two......



Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
or whether it was the Vietnam war with the Australians fighting for you. You have always needed help, I suggest you read the book SAS Sniper by Rob Maylor who is an Australian Afghanistan war veteran, he details quite extensively with his experiences with the Americans and writes about how utterly useless they were in the Battle of Khaz Oruzgan where the Americans had to be saved by the Australians.


I love the Australians, great bunch of guys and great Soldiers. But I hate to break your man-crush and tell you that the ANZAC involvement in Vietnam was tiny. Very tiny compared to how many US troops were there. Same as in A-stan.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 12:57 AM
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Originally posted by daaskapital
2) Americans couldn't adapt to the fighting style of the Viet Cong, thus the reason why Australia was used on most of the operations. (The Australian SASR was classed by the Viet Cong as "The Phantoms of the Jungle).


1. The US pretty much broke the back of the VC during Tet. They weren't the strong fighting force they were after that.

2. The Australians were not used on most of the operations in Vietnam. The had about 61,000 troops. The US had over half a million.


Originally posted by daaskapital
3) Knowing that Vietnam would be a defeat, the USA thought screw it and decided they would pull out (thus losing the war)


You do know that the Australians left about the same time as the US and for the same reasons (Vietnamization).


Originally posted by daaskapital
4) Once pulled out of Vietnam, the North gradually rolled on down and took over the South. Vietnam then became a single, Communist country.


That's about right.


Originally posted by daaskapital
Vietnam was a loss. The USA failed in stopping the communist spread, and they failed in helping South Vietnam.


And it's a loss for Australia, too.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by jerico65
I love the Australians, great bunch of guys and great Soldiers. But I hate to break your man-crush and tell you that the ANZAC involvement in Vietnam was tiny. Very tiny compared to how many US troops were there. Same as in A-stan.


The Australian involvement in Vietnam was by no means tiny. Not when you attribute the population of Australia during that time, and the population of whom were actually in the Defence Force.

Vietnam War -

Australian population: < 20 million

Number of Australians who
served during the Vietnam war: 55,000 - 65,000

While it may seem small, we were a very capable force and would not back down. While the USA may of had the numbers, they were very unskilled in warfare, especially against the North Vietnamese. Read some books. Many of them say how the USA was useless when it came to ground warfare, they didn't know how to patrol properly, they would send 60 + guys at any given time. In order to have won the war, the allies must have fought using the same tactics as the North. This is what the ANZACS done and they were very successful.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the Middle East, the same goes. Australia may have had a smaller presence than the USA (Obviously), but we were excellent in what we done. For example at one point in time, Australia alone actually had control over 3 quarters of Afghanistan, because the USA didn't want to touch it, as it was "too hot." At that time, it was only the Aussies patrolling in those areas, no one else. Another fact is that Australia was also the country to lead the Allied forces into Iraq. Australia was also the first country to come into enemy contact on the same morning of entrance. This was a couple of days before the Iraq war was even announced.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by jerico65
1. The US pretty much broke the back of the VC during Tet. They weren't the strong fighting force they were after that.

With the help of Aussies


2. The Australians were not used on most of the operations in Vietnam. The had about 61,000 troops. The US had over half a million.

The Aussies were used on many more occasions than what you know of. We went on nearly every operation with US troops, especially the ones over the borders. MAC V SOG and the SASR were best mates when it came to over the border patrols.



You do know that the Australians left about the same time as the US and for the same reasons (Vietnamization).

Yes, we weren't going to be left there holding the # bag.



And it's a loss for Australia, too.

Yes, but it wasn't as bad as the USA's loss.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by RadiantMonkey
I would rather die fighting a lonesome battle without the US involved in it rather then die fighting along side murders.. but meh..


Yeah, because all US troops are murderers. Bought into that BS hook, line and sinker, didn't you, Sheep?


Originally posted by RadiantMonkey
Even though my country doesn't have mud hut's you shouldn't talk badly about the country's that do. I mean considering New Orleans is still a damn wasteland..


Really? Haven't been to New Orleans, have you? It's no where near a "wasteland"


Originally posted by RadiantMonkey
if i were you id shut your mouth. Cus you just got owned


Sorry, did I hurt your feelings? Owned? You mean like I owned your mom last night?


Originally posted by RadiantMonkey
BTW... how on earth could you provide food, shelter, and medicine if YOUR country cannot even provide this for there own citizens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Well, keep that in mind when your mudhut is washed away and don't ask the US for anything.


Originally posted by RadiantMonkey
Get your big head out of your ass
edit on 26-5-2012 by RadiantMonkey because: (no reason given)


What are you, 12? Time to move out of Mom's basement. And make your bed, you look like a meth-head.



Well reading your nonsense was a waste of time that i will never get back. Do you have any proof of the claims that you made?

And just so you know, sheep are the American's that still believe they live in "The Land of The Free" as i suspect you do. So please, don't proceed to post more unintelligent garb that only strengthens my point..
So go now before the "void" in which your existence has created continues to grow and lower everyone's IQ more then it already has....


Good Day,
Radiant Monkey.
edit on 27-5-2012 by RadiantMonkey because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by RadiantMonkey

Btw...: I could only understand a few word's in the language that you were typing in, so I copied and pasted it into "Google Translator" to try to create a better response for you. But the only language it would recognize was "Dumbass". Its time for you to get some "Edumacation" and stop trolling on ATS..

edit on 26-5-2012 by RadiantMonkey because: (no reason given)


I do not necessarily agree with your response, but it was an instant classic. So I gave you a star. My apologies to whomever you were replying to.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 04:40 AM
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Humiliating? Ok sure I guess I could see that. I think what is more humiliating is the majority of Americans have been against the war in Afghanistan for at least the past few years, and our supposed leadership never acted on it. In America the gov is supposed to be the voice of the people, which means if they say no more, the soldiers come home. How are we supposed to be setting the example for other nations to follow(or that's the story) when things aren't even being done right here?

What is more humiliating, leaving the country 'too early' or staying and losing even more soldiers over nothing? Why cause more death, not only on the soldiers side, but on the civilian side over there? Staying just because it's humiliating to admit that we couldn't meet our goals is completely ridiculous.



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 08:05 AM
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this post was about Afghanistan situation, but now after reading all pages ... humans are stupid...U are!!!!!! US soldier=terrorist... the real one... not the one created by CIA in mid. east countries ... why i have to read to much bull # here ?
cos more of U are stupid? ===))) thanks to people like U more people have to die today... f### UUUUUUU****



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by michaelbrux

Originally posted by Allenb83

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by chrismarco
 


wrong answer!

that's why I only come here to chastise people that don't know anything.

every one in this place is one of two things:

1. Liars.
2. they don't know anything.


For someone that thinks they know everything, you sure do ask a lot of questions. Its pretty ridiculous to post questions on a forum in the form of riddles and chastise those that don't answer them properly. Have an open mind please. I signed up for ATS to learn about different viewpoints and to bring something different to the table. Don't automatically assume that people are liars or they don't know anything. People can be more things than just these two. You keep posing questions, and I am not going to spoon feed you my answers to boost your ego.

To stay on topic:
I believe an exit from Afghanistan is exactly what this country needs. We are less secure now than we were after sept 11th because of blowback. If even one life is saved for our embarrassment and humiliation, then its worth it to me. Life is precious. We should have never gone into that country to begin with. We need to end these wars, and as soon as possible. We have killed many thousands of innocent civilians. We didn't have a good plan when we invaded, and the only thing we found there were abandoned caves. We waste billions of dollars a day of the peoples money to stay there, and it is all given to lockheed martin and haliburton so they can build more tanks for the military industrial complex. That is where our debt comes from. That is why we need a declaration of war from the congress. The congress that the people vote into their position of power. That is why we need to mind our own business and protect THIS country from harm. If we spread ourselves too thin, then it gives china and other countries opportunity to invade us on OUR SOIL. It scares the S*** out of me, and it needs to change.


there are no different viewpoints that are valid. there is only the correct answer.

comparing Afghanistan to Vietnam is emotionally manipulative and quite clearly incorrect.

The OP belongs to a world that feeds off of human suffering...if the US leaves Afghanistan, as it is in the process of doing, he and people like him will starve to death...thus he has started a thread to promote a situation where he can receive sustenance: one where the US will continue to fight in Afghanistan.

i know its counter intuitive that if a war ends and soldiers go home, people will die, but you are witnessing this with Afghanistan. what you are also seeing in the OP is a person who's life success depends on human conflict on the global scale.

attacking people like the OP and their beliefs and point of view is an obligation.





Sometimes there isn't an easy answer. The world is not made in black and white. I am really not sure how you have managed this far without figuring that out. It kind of boggles my mind. Really. This life and everything that is in it, is in a constant state of change. Get used to it or fall under it. Afghanistan and Vietnam are both wars, so there is a similarity for you to ponder, although there are many differences. I am sorry, but I didn't get your impression from the OP at all, and I don't think he is going to starve to death... he probably has a job? Why don't you ask him if you want to know. Thats how we do things here. Its called a directed question. What part of reality did you say you lived in again? I didn't see anywhere in the OP where his life success personally had to do with human global conflict, although I am aware that this does happen (see military industrial complex). Why don't you try not asking questions that nobody is going to answer, and contribute your thoughts on the subject. Or am I out batting 40%?



posted on May, 27 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by daaskapital
 


But those who know history know it is not true. It was a team effort that required many sacrifices by many peoples.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by daaskapital
 


But those who know history know it is not true. It was a team effort that required many sacrifices by many peoples.


I know. It is just that most Americans on ATS rather revel in their ignorance and/or arrogance regarding WW2. Plenty are unbiased and actually know their crap, but that is a rarity when WW2 topics are discussed on ATS.



posted on May, 28 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by StellarX

The problem with occupations is that unless you are willing to do your violence with knives&individual weapons while flooding the country with troops you really need to go in their with deep pockets and just buy out the resistance by one way or another. The US could never afford to go around slitting throats to make the point but believed that bombing, like vietnam, could do it when such methods breeds as much contempt as fear. While they bombed wedding parties&funerals and market places they proceeded to try bribe afghans they brought into the country instead of finding the resistance and buying them out by one method or the next. There was an classical imperial age where countries could do the things effective classical imperialism demanded but these days it's much more complex and the US as a country and people are not politically sophisticated or brutal enough to be effective occupiers.

And then they choose Afghanstan where sophisticated&brutal imperialist have failed many times!

Oh well!

Stellar


Hi Stellar, always enjoy talking with ya. Hope all is well.

I agree. The U.S. doesn't have the instinct left in us to be Real Occupiers. If we did it would be rather easy to destroy a country and rebuild it the way we want. We just won't do the necessary dirty work to make that happen anymore. Were too busy apologizing for things...... hard to be feared and respected when your leaders are worried about upsetting sensitivities of the locals. Trying to do an occupation with one hand tied behind your back is doomed to failure.

Nation building by us has been tried and the results are far from ideal. It would be a better use of our capital in Blood and Treasure to just level a country, defang it and then move on. No need to rebuild it, unless it's in our strategic interest, which will happen from time to time ( You can make an argument for rebuilding Iraq).

Afghanistan is no better off after all the money, blood and effort we have put into that place. The Afghans aren't going to change their tribal ways so why keep trying. It's time to just pack up and call it a day.



posted on May, 29 2012 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by Germanicus
So you do have special needs. I missed this reply cause like I said,you dont really interest me. Im glad I have made such an impact on you though. I still dont see you point out why you had to change something because of my deit. WTF did I change. I am dieing to know.

And you remind me of a dumb Ron Paul fan. They also cannot grasp the concept of not having blind moronic support. I think Ron Paul is the best guy out of a bad bunch but I dont support him blindly.

I dont contradict myself at all you weirdo. I do think that Afghanis will be better off when America leaves. I also feel that America has an obligation to the Afghanis they leave behind just like they did to the poor South Vietnamese that begged to get a lift on their helicopters. I also said that they should help relocate them didnt I. I can hold both opinions see. They do not conflist in any way shape or form.

When I say we I was talking about Western Governments. That is obvious. We have been dragged into your war genius.

And I wont stop telling you anything. America is doomed and China is the future.


And on the fact. It is fact that America is looking to move its focus to the Pacific. Fact fact fact fact fact. Read a damn newspaper. No opinion about it. Fact fact fact. Dont blame me because you are uninformed. If you have any more facts that you wrongly think are opinion and not fact please share.

Fact.

And again,you have not said a word on topic. Not one. If I was the kind of guy that complained we wouldnt still be trying to make you releaze how very wrong you seem to be about every word that you say.

You are a troll.

If you ever want to actually debate the topic I will be happy to destroy you.

And if you keep your avatar I will remember you


As much as I hate to bump this abomination of a thread back up, I feel its important to say a few more things to the OP that I didnt have time for as I left for the Memorial Day Weekend then I am done with this garbage.

First, I know you do not care but the timing of this post was pretty bad on your part, it being Memorial Day weekend that you posted this thread. You say you mean no disrespect to the soldiers ... Your either a liar, very, very ignorant or simply have no class. Even between enemies a certain respect is given. You have no respect, class or sympathy for the dead which of whom you speak.

You have no honor, respect and no idea how to be polite ... Do you really think the Chinese will have anything to do with you, to them you will be a joke, a traitor and always an outsider. I can see with your pride you THINK you will be equal to the chinese, your wrong. I also believe you fancy yourself in being a modern day Dr. Joseph Goebbels of some sort with your propaganda, Dream on bud ... With the way you constantly contradict yourself Hitler would have nothing to do with you and most likely you would had "disappeared" in Nazi germany.

You think I have mental problems? Hey, I am not the one crying for attention on a message board starting flame bait threads for stars and flags. You obviously don't get enough attention at home so you have to come here, trying to be a "shock jock" by starting threads you know will draw attention to yourself because you believe getting "bumps" actually means something in the real world ... and you say I have mental problems and call me a troll


My "head" as you say or avatar comes from my moms side being American Indian and French, My Dads side is German Dutch ... That is what being American is. We are a collection of many different people in one place. My "views" ? I believe that John. F. Kennedy was the last true president of the American people, From there on out it seems as if corporate interests have taken over and that IS the problem. Its the Bankers milking all of our countries dry. Yes, we have problems. No, everything is not perfect but your solution is to sit around whine about how bad you got it and point fingers at who you believe is to blame. Somehow I suspect you aint got it as bad as you would have us believe.

You want to be critical of everything and everyone around you, like its everyone else's fault. People in glass houses should not throw stones. If you want to point out everyone's mistakes don't get upset when someone comes along and starts examining you under a microscope like you like to do ... you obviously don't like it much either.

Destroy me ? Boy you need to wake up ...






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