Injured knuckles on Travon Martin in autopsy report!!!

Originally posted by HomeBrew
I have to be honest here.....

From the beginning of all these ATS debates I have always tried to keep an open mind about what I do and do not know, not taking sides and simply digesting what we actually know and what that means. As of now, there is not a single conclusive piece of evidence that means anything unless we can put solid context to it. And at this point, that is simply missing. There is just nothing out there right now that can point one way or the other as to who is guilty, period. And if and when I make assumptions, my opinion is clearly labeled as such.

Point being, I am starting to lose all respect for a wealth of members here solely based on there insistence of avoiding the truth and spewing biased points of view as unfailable truth(s). How can anything they say, in any discussion, be taken seriously if they are so reckless in abandoning logic for biased opinion, opinion they present as fact. If you take all the "evidence" that has been reported to us thus far, and assuming that is accurate, I can think of 100 different contextual ways that could exonerate or vilify both sides, simply based on what we do not know.

Why anyone in there right mind would try and justify knowing what happened, and who is guilty at this point, is purely ignorant at best and at worst a deliberate shot at truth. I read some of the comments in this and the other threads and just scratch my head in disbelief.

well said sir.
And with that this thread should be CLOSED!... because there is nothing to be added











except...you want to read sad things like this....

well ,hoodies is an indication of underclass.

oh ATS where is this going to

Have I missed something fundamental here or what? I thought Martin was being followed by Zimmerman who thought he looked suspicious and confronted him. A fight broke out and hmm...people get smashed up in that sort of affair, or am I entirely mistaken here? So what was Zimmerman's right to interfere with Martin in the first place? Isn't there a hands off policy that immediately becomes assault when one touches the other?

Okay so there's a kid looking around in the rain. Well tell me how you don't look somewhat suspicious walking around in a hoodie in the rain? You're always going to look furtive no matter who you are. That's because you're trying to keep the water off your face. Talking on the phone just increases the effect. So, we have this kid being followed by stout armed guy in a car in the rain. Is there any wonder the kid took off running? I would too! I can imagine a million things going through that kid's head and none of them would end well for him.

That kid was a kid. Does anyone really think he did wrong? What should he have done? Stood there in the rain waiting for this guy to do God-knows-what without protecting himself? Get real, people.

Zimmerman wanted to be a cop. He is an adult who was just fed up with stuff going on. He created this whole situation from his own agenda, nothing Martin did. He was just a black kid walking in the rain. What could he have done to change Zimmerman's perception of the situation? Nothing. It was all in Zimmerman's head.

Tell me I've missed something that makes Martin the antagonist here.

Originally posted by AaronWilson
Getting into a fist fight doesnt warrent shooting some one to death.

/end thread

Yeah it does. See fist fights can become fatal quickly in real life.

One good punch to grandma's temple on her head and she is dead. You can cause severe brain trauma with a punch. Therefore a punch can be met with deadly force in order to defend yourself, because a punch is technically deadly force according to historical records.

Also who is going to say grandma shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun to protect herself from getting beat up? Or anyone else for that matter.

Oh I know who doesn't want grandma carrying a gun. The petty thieves who want to rob her, that's who.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Recoil would break Grandma's arthritic wrists and fingers, provided she could pull the trigger.

Anything can be a weapon. We can hardly walk around with our hands bundled in cotton wadding to prevent their use as a weapon. Guns kill with a fair degree of certainty. There has to be a lot more behind a fist.

The three exclamation marks in your thread title indicate you are pretty excited over this news. I am glad you are so happy that a 17 year old boy's life was ended based on the fact his knuckles may have been injured.

No matter what happened in their confrontation, Zimmerman was the adult, Martin was not. Zimmerman had a gun, Martin did not. Zimmerman stalked him, called the police, ignored the 911 dispatchers request to not follow him, and ended up killing him. Zimmerman's the cause in this case no matter how you cut it, not the victim. The real victim is dead.

This whole story disgusts me, and the joy some people have in trying to defend Zimmerman disgusts me even more. He's been charged, let the court system handle it. Everybody else is just doing their best Matlock/Colombo impression.

reply to post by AaronWilson


It does in Florida and a few other states.

Originally posted by RedGoneWILD

No matter what happened in their confrontation, Zimmerman was the adult, Martin was not. Zimmerman had a gun, Martin did not. Zimmerman stalked him, called the police, ignored the 911 dispatchers request to not follow him, and ended up killing him. Zimmerman's the cause in this case no matter how you cut it, not the victim. The real victim is dead.

This whole story disgusts me, and the joy some people have in trying to defend Zimmerman disgusts me even more.

Yes -- Zimmerman was the aggressor - - the profiler - - and the one who chose to ignore recommendations by the 911 dispatcher.

I personally can not get past that. Zimmerman is the cause - - - legally justified or not.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by RedGoneWILD

No matter what happened in their confrontation, Zimmerman was the adult, Martin was not. Zimmerman had a gun, Martin did not. Zimmerman stalked him, called the police, ignored the 911 dispatchers request to not follow him, and ended up killing him. Zimmerman's the cause in this case no matter how you cut it, not the victim. The real victim is dead.

This whole story disgusts me, and the joy some people have in trying to defend Zimmerman disgusts me even more.

Yes -- Zimmerman was the aggressor - - the profiler - - and the one who chose to ignore recommendations by the 911 dispatcher.

I personally can not get past that. Zimmerman is the cause - - - legally justified or not.

True thing there.
If he is found to be legally justified in court, then the thing to do is to have the Florida law changed.
If my reading of a very recently passed law here in PA is correct, Zimmerman would not have been justified, if he did it here.

Originally posted by butcherguy


If he is found to be legally justified in court, then the thing to do is to have the Florida law changed.
If my reading of a very recently passed law here in PA is correct, Zimmerman would not have been justified, if he did it here.

I do understand "letter of the law" - - - but still not sure Zimmerman's actions were within the law. That will be determined by the court.

He did profile and approach an innocent kid - - with intent to do something. The kid had no reason to believe he was not in harms way.

And YES - - Trayvon was an innocent kid in this situation.

So much for the innocent black kid walking with candy and ice tea story.
Only a trial will produce all the evidence needed for any of us to reach a solid conclusion on the events of this case.
In all honesty though I fear an acquittal of Zimmerman could lead to civil unrest and "retaliatory" attacks.
It's going to be a long, hot summer.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


That's basically it.... We have to see what the trial comes up with.... But with all the MSM bias and the Prez's comments about this case... It's almost in the bag for the defense... Think about how fast this should have been a mis-trial due to the Commander in Chief's comments!

It's funny how the same people preaching don't listen to the MSM think Zimmerman is guilty because the MSM told them so...

Originally posted by haven123
Well looks like this could go in Zimmermans favour,short thread but just to let people know that it does sound like George was justified in using his rights to defend himself.
www.wftv.com...
I feel if this guy does get aquitted the way the media has handled it he will never be to live a safe and happy life.so sad for both family's but i belive the Zimmermn'sversion of events but we wont ever know travaons.

edit on 15-5-2012 by haven123 because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-5-2012 by haven123 because: spelling mistakes

edit on 15-5-2012 by haven123 because: (no reason given)

it does sound like George was justified in using his rights to defend himself.

Trayvon martin used his God given right to protect him self from a complete stranger with his hands. Martin was only doing what any human would of done if stalked by a deranged, lunatic, fanatic following him with a gun. Not understanding the right George had to shot him with a gun, its a very ignorant point and so unrealistic I actually feel sorry for people who believe he was justified for being a complete deranged stalker,a woman beater and had no respect for authority.

They will obviously bring his violent, stalker deranged past to the trial, I wonder if they will bring the woman who he-man handled and threw across the room on trial,or the time in whiich he bucked authority when he was a complete out of control drunk.

George is your typical ,'i want to be reconized and feel productive type in life' loser' type mentality.You can tell by how many times he called the police that he was just a complete washed up loser dude who wanted to feel important,typical for people like him.

This should be obvious, but it seems like it has to be pointed out anyway:
911 operators are not police offers. You do not have to do what they say.

Also, following someone one and confronting them is not the same as following them until police arrive.
To me, the evidence points to the latter.

911 transcript:

Zimmerman:
Now he’s staring at me.

911 dispatcher:
OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?

Zimmerman:
That’s the clubhouse.

911 dispatcher:
He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:
Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.



I've had both my home and vehicle broken into twice.On one occasion, my neighbors called the cops, but they never showed up. If I see someone I deem suspcious, I will follow them too.


But the only question I would like answered is "Where is all the outrage for the other 7,500 young black men who get killed every year?" Oh yeah, that's right, we let the media decide what's important.

So many people on this thread have clearly already convicted Zimmerman or found him innocent. You should be ashamed of yourselves. You come to ATS claiming to be open-minded and seekers of truth, yet you've made your decision based on what? Media coverage, that's what!!! My gosh, I hope if I ever have something that goes to trial I don't end up with you people on the jury! It's a sad day when people make up their minds before a case has even been established and presented.

reply to post by SavedOne


it goes both ways. a lot of people here are also using the same information to justify the killing of a teenager.

Trayvon displayed bad judgment in striking a would be assailant, but Zimmerman is brave for confronting a black person walking home? I suppose Trayvon was going to use the empty aluminum can to shatter the thick glass window, and the skittles wrapper to disable the alarm system of a home, i mean there had been burglary's in the area right? To me, Zimmerman fabricated his position, created the situation, and caused the death of another person out of self-delusional paranoia.

Originally posted by Shark_Feeder

Originally posted by Starchild23
Trayvon punched a tree or a door on his way outside.

There's no proof of where it happened.

I haven't commented on this case yet...but there is strong evidence of an altercation between these individuals.

New headline out today. ABC: Zimmerman Medical Report shows broken nose, lacerations after Trayvon Martin shooting.

Maybe im missing something here, but wasn't it always assumed there was a scuffle of some sorts? Thought the real question is why is this dude getting his Paul Blart on stalking kids in the neighborhood with a gun after the police told him to stay his dumbass inside?

Originally posted by canselmi
This should be obvious, but it seems like it has to be pointed out anyway:
911 operators are not police offers. You do not have to do what they say.

Also, following someone one and confronting them is not the same as following them until police arrive.
To me, the evidence points to the latter.

911 transcript:

Zimmerman:
Now he’s staring at me.

911 dispatcher:
OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?

Zimmerman:
That’s the clubhouse.

911 dispatcher:
He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:
Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.



I've had both my home and vehicle broken into twice.On one occasion, my neighbors called the cops, but they never showed up. If I see someone I deem suspcious, I will follow them too.


But the only question I would like answered is "Where is all the outrage for the other 7,500 young black men who get killed every year?" Oh yeah, that's right, we let the media decide what's important.

911 dispatcher:

Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:

Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK.

We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman:

OK. [2:28]


none of this would have happened if he would have listed to the dispatcher...but some how trayvon is the bad guy?? the logic of some of you people disgust me.. but im not surprised..

I wonder if, Zimmerman supporters ever put their selves in Trayvon Martin's shoes. Would they still have the same opinion? probably not, but we all know whats up..

reply to post by beatbox

but we all know whats up..

Maybe everyone doesn't.
Could you just come out and say it?