Injured knuckles on Travon Martin in autopsy report!!!

reply to post by haven123


so what does this prove? that he attempted to defend himself against an armed pursuer before he was murdered?

Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003
hoodies is a symbol of ghetto culture and criminal intent.

Um ... no. Hoodies are just hoodies. Everyone has them. Criminal and non criminal.
Even the girls at my daughters all-girl private college prep high school.
The girls are definately not ghetto and they don't have criminal intent.
Neither do I. Neither does my engineer husband. Nor do our friends.

reply to post by haven123

plus i hope this proves it was a simple self defence not some racialy motvated murder,ther is only one race HUMAN.

It's not self defense if you follow the person and cause the confrontation, when the authorities, and all rational thought, would tell you to leave it be.

I didn't think the fact that a fight broke out was ever in question, what was in question was the motivations that led to it. Zimmerman followed Martin. I really can't see anyone spinning that as self defense.

If I follow you, and am armed, and start a confrontation, it's the other guy, the one being followed and accosted, that has the right to defend themselves.

Basically what you are saying is this:

You scare me, so I attack you and have a gun.

You fight back, which gives me the right to defend myself. Do you not see how illogical that is?

Personally, I'd expect manslaughter or something similar, I just don't believe the man is guilty of murder, I also don't believe he's innocent, he followed Martin, case closed, at least man slaughter.

Maybe I just don't understand the stand your ground law.

To my knowledge, you can resort to violence only as the last resort, when your life in actually in danger, you can't go start a fight then claim self defense when the other guy fights back.

I don't even consider race to be an issue with this, it doesn't change the situation much other than showing the intent and possibly allowing them to call it a hate crime.

reply to post by haven123


It sounds like Zimmerman was a stalker and murdered a kid. There is no argument that there wasn't a fight. Zimmerman was stalking Treyvon and Treyvon defended himself.

Zimmerman is guilty. And even if not convicted, his life is ruined. He will never be able to show his face in the U.S. again. Send him to the Taliban. They love people like George.

I love how folks adamantly take sides without having even close to all of the facts.

That's why we have trials. Of course the victim wasn't as saintly as his family is making him out to be. Nor is the defendant. The truth will come out.

Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003
The blacks should dressing like Gangsta's ,does not help them.And some real education is needed,use internet for self-education.Whining about conditions or being rappers or hoodies aren't going to help.If Trayvon had not attacked zimmerman he would not be dead.

If Zimmerman had done what the 911 dispatcher said - - he wouldn't be going to trial and a 17 year old kid would not be dead.

I'm 65.

I have a whole collection of hoodies.

Oh yeah! Don't be a Bohemian. Don't be a Preston Epps Beatnik. Don't be a Hippie. It's a death sentence.

If Zimmerman had done what the 911 dispatcher said - - he wouldn't be going to trial and a 17 year old kid would not be dead.

and then what? another robbery?another murder?

I have a whole collection of hoodies.

well ,hoodies is an indication of underclass.

I'm 65.

so?

Now that you displayed your utter ignorance, care to add something to the thread?

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by haven123

 

The best way to fight media intentions is to acknowledge and ignore them.

biggest oxymoron I have ever read. acknowledge AND ignore? wtf?

So I guess we're all okay with the TSA now. Ya know, since they assume everybody is a terrorist (including little old ladies) so that the skies are safe. I guess it's okay for all "security" types to start assuming the worst and step up the proactivity.

No more crying and posting videos of "security" types abusing their authority--we're all suspects and should be treated as such.

Originally posted by emptyOmind
reply to post by haven123

 

so what does this prove? that he attempted to defend himself against an armed pursuer before he was murdered?

If you are saying that he decided to fight an 'armed pursuer' using his fists instead of running away....

It might prove that his decision-making skills were very poor.

Originally posted by AaronWilson
Getting into a fist fight doesnt warrent shooting some one to death.

/end thread

This comment also belongs in all 'police brutality' threads.

But cops will continue to hide behind "I felt my life was being threatened." Even though they carry around 5 or more weapons on their person, not to mention backup a short moment away ready to assist in murdering civilians because they always have to be weary of the one super-human civilian that takes on and kills 8 cops with his bare hands

apologies... a bit off topic

Originally posted by elouina
reply to post by haven123

 

Zimmermans mom is half back. His grandfather is 100%. So how can race be an issue? I have been confused about this all along.

I'm actually startled by this statement. I had a cellmate who was 100% black, raised in a white family, and was an Aryan Brotherhood member by the age of 18; he hated black people. Knowing or being related to somebody black does not disqualify you from being racist. You must not get out much? I think I should name this fallacy, it's quite common. "Elimination by Relation", yeah that sounds good.

What's sad is, because of the idiocy of Florida Law, a killer is going to get acquitted.

I have to be honest here.....

From the beginning of all these ATS debates I have always tried to keep an open mind about what I do and do not know, not taking sides and simply digesting what we actually know and what that means. As of now, there is not a single conclusive piece of evidence that means anything unless we can put solid context to it. And at this point, that is simply missing. There is just nothing out there right now that can point one way or the other as to who is guilty, period. And if and when I make assumptions, my opinion is clearly labeled as such.

Point being, I am starting to lose all respect for a wealth of members here solely based on there insistence of avoiding the truth and spewing biased points of view as unfailable truth(s). How can anything they say, in any discussion, be taken seriously if they are so reckless in abandoning logic for biased opinion, opinion they present as fact. If you take all the "evidence" that has been reported to us thus far, and assuming that is accurate, I can think of 100 different contextual ways that could exonerate or vilify both sides, simply based on what we do not know.

Why anyone in there right mind would try and justify knowing what happened, and who is guilty at this point, is purely ignorant at best and at worst a deliberate shot at truth. I read some of the comments in this and the other threads and just scratch my head in disbelief.

Well I disagree with one thing.. a few months after the trial is over... No one will care/remember what Zimmerman looks like... He will have to move probably... but I'm sure he will be safe... Besides the system that screwed him will be the system that protects him

Originally posted by DrNotforhire
Well I disagree with one thing.. a few months after the trial is over... No one will care/remember what Zimmerman looks like... He will have to move probably... but I'm sure he will be safe... Besides the system that screwed him will be the system that protects him

His own actions screwed up his life.

Not the system.

Justified my ass? If you were a 17 year old kid being stalked, I assure you your flight or fight instincts would kick in. And if Bat Man, saviour of the neighborhood, wasn't packing he would have deserved to get the life beaten out of him.

Originally posted by CaptainNemo

Originally posted by elouina
reply to post by haven123

 

Zimmermans mom is half back. His grandfather is 100%. So how can race be an issue? I have been confused about this all along.

I'm actually startled by this statement. I had a cellmate who was 100% black, raised in a white family, and was an Aryan Brotherhood member by the age of 18; he hated black people. Knowing or being related to somebody black does not disqualify you from being racist. You must not get out much? I think I should name this fallacy, it's quite common. "Elimination by Relation", yeah that sounds good.

I've stated similar viewpoints.

Being and knowing people of color/ethnicity in your immediate circle - - does not exclude one from being prejudice against a specific group.

The human psyche works in mysterious ways.

Look you can't go pick a fight and then kill someone because you're not as tough as you thought you were when they start getting the better of you.

By Florida law George was within in his right to kill because he feared for his life due to getting schooled by Trayvon, but the fact that he instigated that altercation means there will be consequences for that at least.

Originally posted by kazanoom
Justified my ass? If you were a 17 year old kid being stalked, I assure you your flight or fight instincts would kick in. And if Bat Man, saviour of the neighborhood, wasn't packing he would have deserved to get the life beaten out of him.

As much as kids are warned against strangers these days.

Probably the most valid statement in this thread.

Originally posted by PushEject

By Florida law George was within in his right to kill because he feared for his life due to getting schooled by Trayvon,. .

Not true.

He lost that right when he pursued Trayvon.

I have to say, I'm not in the least bit of shock..

Truth is coming out now...