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Injured knuckles on Travon Martin in autopsy report!!!

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posted on May, 16 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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does not matter if trayvon came back to life and said "yes i assaulted him and he shot me for doing so", people would STILL cling on to george zimmerman being this hate mongering giga-hitler type with a thirst for the blood of 8th grade black children (well at least the pictures they show).

people have already made up their minds about this guy and took the bait. funny how people on ATS argue lies of the MSM and turn around and cling to MSM "facts"




posted on May, 16 2012 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by nunya13

Originally posted by daaskapital

Looking at this case in an unbiased review, it is evident that Zimmerman acted completely in self defence as he was being assaulted by Martin in what appeared to be a life or death scenario.


It is certainly NOT evident that Zimmerman acted "completely in self defense".

Fact is...no one knows yet what happened between when Zimmerman got of the phone and when Trayvon apparently assaulted him. You have no idea. I have no idea. To assume that Trayvon had no reason to attack Zimmerman is biased. To assume that it was a life or death scenario is biased.

To make any assumptions as to why Trayvon was assaulting Zimmerman is pure conjecture at this point.

An unbiased review would be more like this:

Zimmerman sees a kid in a hoodie walking around in the rain and calls 911 because he thought it was suspicious. He is also carrying a gun. He sees that the person he is following noticed he's being followed and starts to run. Zimmerman runs after him. He supposedly stops chasing him after being told not to by the dispatcher but it's hard to tell if he did or not. He then says Martin was approaching him. Whether he was or not is up for debate as we only have Zimmerman's word to go on. Next thing you know, Martin is dead and Zimmerman has some bruises from an apparent assault by the person he was pursuing while carrying a loaded gun.

How you can make the determination that this proves Zimmerman's innocence is beyond me. You can have an opinion, but don't pretend your opinion is unbiased or even fact. NONE OF US KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.


Yes, no one knows what exactly happened, but all this evidence is starting to sway in favour of Zimmerman and his self defence claims. Zimmerman's shirt had Grass stains on it (most notably the back) after the struggle, and as such indicates he was involved in a physical confrontation which took place on the ground. Furthermore, with the grass stains on his back, it indicates that he was lying on his back for a period of time. This correlates with Zimmerman's claims that he was violently assaulted while lying...on his back. Furthermore, the information presented in this thread further supports Zimmerman's claims.

Trayvon appears to have attacked on the basis that he felt he was threatened. Just because he felt it, doesn't mean he really was.

While the evidence as of late may be incomplete, it is apparent that Zimmerman was assaulted.

Using the facts provides an unbiased review of the situation, and so far, the facts are in favour of Zimmerman.



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by nunya13
Zimmerman having injuries proves absolutely nothing. All it proves is he got his ass kicked after the person he was FOLLOWING didn't like it very much.





which in turn would proove zimmerman was justified in his self defense. this argument makes me
every time i read it.



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by nunya13

Originally posted by daaskapital
In this case, it appears that Martin answered in a violent manner, starting a physical struggle in which Zimmerman acted in self defence.
edit on 16-5-2012 by daaskapital because: (no reason given)


You don't know that. You don't know what Zimmerman said or did before Martin supposedly assaulted him.


Thus why i said "appears."


It may be legal to ask someone questions about what they are doing. Try it though. Go find some guy on the street and demand to know where he is going and what he is doing.


How do you know that Zimmerman demanded an answer? That is what you are implying in this statement. As you said so yourself, no one knows what he said, so how do you know he demanded answers? He may of said nothing at all.


Keep asking him and follow him some if he refuses to answer. See how that goes for you. When you get punched in the face, call the cops and tell them why you got punched. I don't think they would be that sympathetic to you. Just a guess, however.


It would be hard to call the cops when you are in a physical struggle, being assaulted.



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 07:09 PM
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Eww such a gun toting badass you are. It's this primitive nonsense that makes all these deluded vigilante's running around more dangerous than the criminals. Yea a real tough guy until something happens that was instigated by your fearful buffonery. If you had half a conscious, I doubt you feel so badass after killing an innocent person. But then again, I suspect you are too far gone. Any "watchman" with a rifle wouldn't get down the street without being surrounded by cops in my neighborhood.


Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by nunya13
 


I do it all the time, when I see people I don't know in my community, as does everyone else who lives here. If they are stupid enough to assault one of us for it, they will pay with their life. We only call the cops to come clean up the mess, you think we are gonna call the cops, and wait two hours till they get here? Hope someone else is gonna come save us? Nah, and now you know why there isn't any real crime around here. Nice safe place. We look out for each other. Oh yeah, and we don't conceal carry here, we walk around with rifles on our backs


edit on Wed, 16 May 2012 18:29:45 -0500 by TKDRL because: can't type blah



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by kazanoom
 


Well then I suggest you stay where ever it is you are from, I will gladly stay here. Walking around with rifles on our backs is the norm. I am sure you would do the same, if where you lived had packs of coyotes that interbred with timber wolves, bears, bobcat, lynx and all kinds of crazy critters running around where you live.


I will stay here, where I don't have to worry about getting mugged, dealing with gangbangers, dealing with cops. It's nice to live in a free place, where people can do whatever they want, unless they are hurting someone else. Not for everyone I am sure.

Killing an innocent person? No, not me. Someone who would assault me, my family, or a member of my community is not an innocent person.
edit on Wed, 16 May 2012 19:16:20 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by snarky412

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by snarky412

If you read the whole article, by this time, the neighbors are sick and tired of having their stuff stolen. And a few weeks earlier, the suspect that Zimmerman followed while waiting for the police got away. But this time, he kept following him not expecting a fight, while waiting for the cops to show up.


Who the hell cares.

A kid is dead. Zimmerman killed him.



Well, if you had been following the whole story from the beginning, Trayvon was wandering around the houses looking suspicious like so many others [burglars] have done, scoping out vulnerable prey [targets]. So after many months of this type of activity, of course he should be a person of interest. If he was going to his house, why was he wandering around? And why the violence if he was such a sweet kid? Need to wait for all the facts to come out....

We all should care, it's only human..... for both families involved.


The question is have you been following the case? Martin was walking down the street not wondering around houses. He was also new to the neighborhood it's dark and raining alot of sub divisions look the same and it would have been easy to get confused. Why the violence if he is a sweet kid? If you have someone who thinks he's a cop chasing a person down you should expect something to happen. If it were me I would have jumped Zimmerman as well because I would have seen him as hostile. Zimmerman did nothing but profile the kid and in doing so showed just how much of a racist he really is.



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


God man you people don't understand anything. I said if he feels he needs to do it....like uhhhh I don't know self defense. Since Zimmerman was the one who approached him and started everything and HAD A GUN. How do you know Martin didn't see the gun and was scared for his life. SELF DEFENSE FROM A MINOR IS A CRIME IN USA. WOW!



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by Evanzsayz
 


You see someone with a gun, then attack them? That sounds reasonable to you? Sounds retarded to me. Could be a plainclothes cop for all you know. Are you really that scared of guns, that just the sight of one makes you lash out and attack someone? I am glad I raise my girls better than that......

I highly suggest you learn the law a bit, before you end up in jail or dead if that is really the way you would act.
edit on Wed, 16 May 2012 20:08:13 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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gah, it bothers me when people get so worked up over sensational news/crime reports such as this one.

these stories are incessantly discussed by the media networks intentionally... they are designed to manipulate an emotional response from the public on purpose. why? to be divisive, so that people engage in heated, passionate discussions amongst each other not based on logic but from emotion. so that we learn to think about complicated issues from an impulsive, shallow perspective in lieu of deeper objective analysis. it's easier to operate from feelings than logic, and it's a much faster process. most people that watch/keep up with mainstream news watch a 5-minute overview of the topic, think about it for a short time, and then decide where they stand on it (which depends in large part to existing beliefs and biases).

studies have shown that once a person makes up their mind on an issue it becomes incredibly difficult for that person to change their mind, even if new details emerge that provide strong evidence to the contrary. lateral thinking is a very difficult skill for a person to acquire in our society for many reasons, short attention spans being only one of the major reasons for this.

i don't care that deeply about this issue specifically because i can't get past it serving as another example of the sensationalism of mainstream media, the manipulative effect it has on people (creating divisions among us, the public, by arguing about what happened and why), and how it ultimately distracts us from not only more pertinent issues but from actually accomplishing any forward progression. how can we work together as a country and as a planet on ANYTHING if all we do is argue over who's right and who's wrong?



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 08:18 PM
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see what i mean? regardless of the evidence (which all has been pointing to GZ telling the truth) people will cling to this guy being a racist blood thirsty trigger happy white supremest. you people who keep arguing "a guy with a gun was following him". how do you know he was flashing his piece? you all claim it was dark and raining and he (trayvon) was scared so he attacked. unless zim was pointing that gun at him and intentionally flashing it to intimidate (no evidence supports this), your argument is just speculation.

i'm afraid ATS these days has no idea how the law works. it is NOT illegal to follow or question somebody in your neighborhood. even if trayvon was scared, he could have just ran, but the evidence points to him attacking zimmerman and that is where he failed. that is where zimmerman had just cause (stand your ground). it isn't "stand your ground if somebody is following you". the law is the law, and it SEEMS like the law in this case was not violated. hate him and think he's an idiot or a racist or whatever you want, doesn't change what the evidence supports. quit clinging to your hate



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Evanzsayz
 


You see someone with a gun, then attack them? That sounds reasonable to you? Sounds retarded to me. Could be a plainclothes cop for all you know. Are you really that scared of guns, that just the sight of one makes you lash out and attack someone? I am glad I raise my girls better than that......

I highly suggest you learn the law a bit, before you end up in jail or dead if that is really the way you would act.
edit on Wed, 16 May 2012 20:08:13 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)


Ok let's say trayvon did attack him...Zimmerman said


Zimmerman also told police, the source told the Sentinel, that while the two were on the ground, Trayvon reached for Zimmerman’s gun, and the two struggled over it.


Do you see the difference between his claim and your assumption?

Honestly, if you were trayvon, what would you have done?


edit on 16-5-2012 by beatbox because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by AaronWilson
 


LOL! Tell that to the military an see how it goes over. . .sheesh.



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by AaronWilson
reply to post by Starchild23
 


Fighting is normal. Men fight, well, we used to. Hand to hand is a way to let steam off. Should never, EVER result in a further eselation of violence.


You presume to live a world of gentry where all are civil. This is a pipe dream. The real world has plenty of piss stained gutters where you can get beaten to death while the locals watch and even cheer.

I can't pass judgement on anything in this case. I wasn't there. We are getting hand fed sensationalist garbage from our tabloid-esque MSM. Controversy sells, and your evening news is really not so different from shock jocks like Howard Stern in their methods of gaining viewers.

I could make the argument that opening the door of violence is an unspoken agreement to mutual combat. One wrong punch can kill or maim for life. If someone opens that door and forces their violence on another without their prior consent to a "sporting match of fisticuffs" then I don't see the crime in putting them down like a rabid animal.

You forfeit any rights you have when you use brute force to exert your will on another who has not agreed to engage you. That is assault. A shooting is a terrible and extreme way to end it but should the defender be expected to take a beating, possibly being permanently handicapped, just because someone else lost control?

These two guys, the deceased and the accused... nobody here really knows what happened that day. All we can do is hope that the courts get it sorted. I rather wish the news would have a little class about it and stop feeding hate. I really wish that the people would have even more class and stop eating it up.
edit on 16-5-2012 by SanguineDenial because: forgot to punctuate an appositive



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by jewdiful
gah, it bothers me when people get so worked up over sensational news/crime reports such as this one.

these stories are incessantly discussed by the media networks intentionally... they are designed to manipulate an emotional response from the public on purpose. why? to be divisive, so that people engage in heated, passionate discussions amongst each other not based on logic but from emotion. so that we learn to think about complicated issues from an impulsive, shallow perspective in lieu of deeper objective analysis. it's easier to operate from feelings than logic, and it's a much faster process. most people that watch/keep up with mainstream news watch a 5-minute overview of the topic, think about it for a short time, and then decide where they stand on it (which depends in large part to existing beliefs and biases).

studies have shown that once a person makes up their mind on an issue it becomes incredibly difficult for that person to change their mind, even if new details emerge that provide strong evidence to the contrary. lateral thinking is a very difficult skill for a person to acquire in our society for many reasons, short attention spans being only one of the major reasons for this.

i don't care that deeply about this issue specifically because i can't get past it serving as another example of the sensationalism of mainstream media, the manipulative effect it has on people (creating divisions among us, the public, by arguing about what happened and why), and how it ultimately distracts us from not only more pertinent issues but from actually accomplishing any forward progression. how can we work together as a country and as a planet on ANYTHING if all we do is argue over who's right and who's wrong?


Wow this is a amazing post...thank you for your insight. You have Seriously inspired me.
edit on 16-5-2012 by beatbox because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by AaronWilson
Getting into a fist fight doesnt warrent shooting some one to death.

/end thread


Fists can kill easily

/end ignorance



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by KaiserSoze
I didn't see the specifics of the injury. What I'd like to know is would the injuries be consistent with a fist fight with some bruising or more scraping type of injuries consistent with dragging.


Did you ever wind up with black eyes because of being dragged over the floor?

Didn't think so indeed,



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by babybunnies
This does uphold the "self defense" claim, but not why he was chasing him in the first place when police told him not to.

However, it's starting to look good for the Zimmerman defense team.


Hey man, hate to pick on you but this, "the police told him not to," thing has got to stop. The police cannot tell you what to do. If a woman is about to get raped and the 911 operator tells her to just relax and go with it, she does not have to take that reccomendation. If you're in your home and people are in your backyard and the 911 operator tells you to stay inside and make a grilled cheese sandwich, you are within your rights to disobey that suggestion. The police are not in charge, they cannot "tell you what to do." No one can really tell you what to do. If a cop decides he wants to tell you what to do he pretty much has to invoke the power of arrest, that is his only real recourse. It's not the job of police officers to just go around telling us what to do all day, although I am aware that most of us, including them, believe this to be the case.

I have no opinion on this case other than the fact that it is very interesting and I wasn't there and don't know what happened.
edit on 16-5-2012 by hammanderr because: rewording



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


You don't think that was pretty much the same day?



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by snarky412
 


20 years for just a discharge of a firearm.....?

20 years.....?



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