Was the government a co-conspirator?

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posted on May, 10 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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The FBI is covering up any Saudi involvement in the acts of 9/11. 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens, they obtained their Visas from Saudi Arabia, evidence shows the Saudi royal family were funding the hijackers, they even housed the hijackers around the US. This is not an intelligence failure, this is not something anyone missed, this is something being hidden by the FBI and other US intelligence agencies. The 9/11 Commission Report has little to know coverage of these facts within itself.

I really want to know what the OS Troops think about this. Do you consider this obstruction of justice? You guys defend the official story til the grave, but how can you if the government is covering up something of such great importance? Do you still think 19 arabs with nothing but box cutters managed to bypass the world's greatest defense? The government told us al-qaeda and Iraq had a direct connection, on top of the false existence of WMDs (which is why congress gave the green light on the Iraq war) If the U.S. can produce false evidence to convince congress to go to war, then how do you deem it impossible for them to present us, the citizens of the US, with false evidence?






Saudi couple in Fla. part of 9/11? FBI says no, others raise questions


A news report about a Saudi family that disappeared from their home in Sarasota, Fla., just two weeks before the 9/11 attacks has brought an angry response from the co-chair of a congressional Sept. 11 committee.
Bob Graham, who was a senator from Florida when he co-chaired the panel, tells msnbc tv he contacted President Barack Obama's terrorism adviser after hearing about the news report, which documented that the family had had contact with three of the 9/11 pilot hijackers.
"I ... urged him to pursue an investigation of these matters, both in Sarasota and elsewhere ... and then hopefully release that information to the American people," Graham said Monday on The Dylan Ratigan Show, suggesting that other Saudi families in the U.S. might have also had contact with the terrorists, most of whom were Saudi.
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Anthony Summers and Bob Graham discuss the Sarasota mystery on The Dylan Ratigan Show.
Reuters reported that the FBI office in Tampa issued a statement Monday saying the Sarasota case was one of many leads that "were resolved and determined not to be related to any threat nor connected to the 9/11 plot."
Graham said he had no reason to doubt the news report, which said the couple and their two children abruptly abandoned their luxury home, leaving behind a full refrigerator, clothes, furnishings and a new car in the driveway.
The report was published by BrowardBulldog.org, a nonprofit news site, and was simultaneously published on the Miami Herald website.
If true, it reveals another Saudi terrorism connection that the FBI never disclosed to the public or to the 2002 joint Congressional intelligence committee investigating the attacks, said Graham.
Reuters quoted Graham as calling the Sarasota case "eerily similar" to the FBI's failure to tell the intelligence committee about a former Saudi civil servant, Omar al-Bayoumi, who supported two hijackers while they were living in San Diego.
Graham said an investigator for his committee independently unearthed the information about al-Bayoumi.
"Why did the U.S. government go to such lengths to cover up the Saudi involvement?" Graham said.
The Democrat has long been critical of the administration of former President George W. Bush for refusing to release 28 pages of the intelligence committee's report, which allegedly included information about Saudi financial support of terrorists.
Information about the Saudi couple in Sarasota was reported by Anthony Summers, an independent journalist and co-author of "The Eleventh Day: The Full Story of 9/11 and Osama bin Laden," and Dan Christensen, editor of the BrowardBulldog.org.
Summers said on msnbc tv that a hushed-up inquiry found that "three of the (9/11) pilot hijackers had all been in touch with the Saudis in that house."
Abdulazzi al-Hiijjii, his wife Anoud and their two children resided in a home owned by Anoud's father, Esam Ghazzawi, in the gated Sarasota subdivision called Prestancia, according to the report.
The news report said the FBI learned of the couple from a suspicious neighbor on the day of the attacks.
According to the report, the FBI connected the couple to more than a dozen terrorists through telephone records and through their car license tags and driver's licenses as they passed through the subdivision's security gate.
Among the terrorists who visited the home or called the couple was 9/11 leader Mohamed Atta, the report said.
The news report was based on information from an unnamed counterterrorism official, a neighbor, subdivision administrators, the subdivision security guard and the subdivision lawyer, who said the FBI tried to get him to lure the homeowner back to the United States.
According to the report, the Sarasota couple returned to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, with Anoud's father after abandoning their home.




posted on May, 10 2012 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by homervb
 


Bush had what, like 19 or so pages about possible Saudi Involvement redacted from the commission report? I recall reading that way back when, but maybe it wasn't the 911 commission report, but I do recall a ton of info being redacted about the Saudis.

I remember saying at the time...

If it was 15 Iranians, it would be Iran attacks the US
If it was 15 Syrians, it would be Syria attacks the US
If it was 15 North Koreans, it would be North Korea attacks the US

But it was 15 Saudis, so it was "all arabs attack the US"

And no, I don't forget for a second the police transcript of the white van full of ISraelis stopped on 911 who told the officer "We are not your problem, the Palestinians are your problem" while the damn attacks were taking place. I will NEVER forget that until the day I die, because that fact proved to me the entire "civilized world" is a sham, it's all a hoax and we're the ones being punk'd.
edit on 10-5-2012 by phishyblankwaters because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 08:49 AM
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The best reason for the saudis being redacted from the reports is because......they were not involved.
Aspects of the american government and israeli governments allowed and orchestrated 9/11.
It really is that simple.



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by homervb
 


Bush had what, like 19 or so pages about possible Saudi Involvement redacted from the commission report? I recall reading that way back when, but maybe it wasn't the 911 commission report, but I do recall a ton of info being redacted about the Saudis.


It was redacted and buried. And I don't think these senators would lie about this connection. They signed sworn affidavits that pretty much says there was 100% Saudi involvement. So the same people who gave us the "official story" (FBI/CIA) are also covering up those who funded the worst terrorist attack on American soil. In essence, without Saudi Arabia the hijackers would not have been able to accomplish what they did. But then again, the US managed to immediately point fingers at bin Laden and Iraq. (That connection was dismissed as well as the WMD allegations) I just don't understand how people really defend what the government has told them about 9/11. The only reason we know this existed was because brave senators within our own government came forward and pointed this out to us. If we solely relied on the Commission Report we would seriously have no idea that the Saudis were involved.




Two former U.S. Senators sign sworn affidavits linking key U.S. ally Saudi Arabia to 9/11 attacks
Agence France-Presse Mar 2, 2012 – 2:38 PM ET

REUTERS // Files
Former U.S. Senators Bob Kerrey, left, and Bob Graham.

NEW YORK — Relatives of people killed in the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States Friday welcomed moves by two former senators to link Saudi Arabia to the events as part of a huge lawsuit.

Ex-Florida senator Bob Graham and former Nebraska senator Bob Kerrey said in sworn affidavits to a New York court they were certain of the links between the Saudi government and the attacks.

“I am convinced that there was a direct line between at least some of the terrorists who carried out the September 11th attacks and the government of Saudi Arabia,” said Graham.

Graham led a joint 2002 congressional inquiry into the attacks in which Al-Qaeda militants hijacked four planes and crashed them into the World Trade Center in New York, the Pentagon in Washington and a Pennsylvania field. Almost 3,000 people were killed in the worst ever attack on American soil.

Kerrey, who served on a separate 9/11 inquiry, said in his own sworn statement last week that “significant questions remain unanswered about the role of Saudi institutions.”

“Evidence relating to the plausible involvement of possible Saudi government agents in the September 11th attacks has never been fully pursued.”

Families of the victims said Friday they welcomed the comments “strongly disagreeing with papers filed by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the Saudi High Commission claiming that they had been ’exonerated’ of any connection to the 9/11 terrorist attacks.”

Saudi Arabia, now a key regional US ally in the fight against terrorism, has said the 9/11 commission’s final report “found no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution of senior Saudi individuals funded” Al-Qaeda, the New York Times said.

But in a statement Thursday the group, the 9/11 Families United to Bankrupt Terrorism, “applauded” the statements by Graham and Kerrey which are part of a multi-billion dollar lawsuit before the court.

“The financiers and enablers of those who murdered our loved ones are still alive, well and capable of supporting terrorism. The trail back to them still points to Saudi Arabia,” said Beverly Burnett.

Her son, Thomas Burnett, was killed when the passengers fought back against the hijackers, and their flight plowed into a Pennsylvania field.

“The families and survivors of the atrocities of 9/11 have not given up hope for justice. We are determined to expose the truth,” she added.

Fifteen of the 19 hijackers were Saudi nationals, and Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was also a Saudi citizen. After years on the run, he was finally tracked down to a compound in Pakistan and killed in a US commando raid in May.



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by The X
The best reason for the saudis being redacted from the reports is because......they were not involved.
Aspects of the american government and israeli governments allowed and orchestrated 9/11.
It really is that simple.


I do agree that Israeli had some involvement, and I base that off of the Urban Moving Systems story. There could have been a collaborative effort between Saudi Arabia & Israel but that's complete speculation. And before anyone discredits the Urban Moving Systems story, here:




FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: December 13, 2001 FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Ronald George, Beth Rosenberg
973-504-6327

[url =http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/press/storage.htm]State Granted Access to Moving Company's Storage Facility NEWARK- [/url]

The State Division of Consumer Affairs ("Consumer Affairs") is asking all citizens who have goods stored at Urban Moving Systems' Weehawken warehouse to immediately contact Consumer Affairs, Attorney General John J. Farmer, Jr., and New Jersey Division of Consumer Affairs Director Mark S. Herr announced today. The State on Wednesday obtained a court order giving inspectors from Consumer Affairs access to the facility allowing consumers access to retrieve their goods and belongings. The State, at the same time, filed a lawsuit in Hudson County Superior Court against Urban Moving Systems and its owner Dominick Suter alleging violations of both the State's Consumer Fraud Act and regulations set forth in the Public Movers and Warehousing Licensing Act. According to the complaint, on or about September 14, 2001, Suter departed from the United States and left no one acting as an agent for Urban. The complaint also alleges that Suter violated the Mover's Act by, among other things, failing to provide Consumer Affairs the name of a current contact person or agent, not adequately responding to consumer requests for access to their belongings and not having an agent available for at least 20-30 per week to allow consumers access to their belongings. "We became aware of the hardship consumers faced who could not get access to their belongings at Urban's warehouse," Attorney General Farmer said. "By obtaining this court order we can now offer consumers access to what is rightfully theirs. Our lawsuit should serve notice that we intend to prosecute those who violate our laws and undermine the public's trust." "It appears that goods belonging to approximately 100 consumers are stored at the warehouse. Thus far we have only heard from 36 consumers," Herr said. "We have access to the facility for 30 days so we are urging consumers who have goods stored with Urban to contact us as soon as possible." Consumers can gain access to the facility on an appointment basis and will have to provide proof of ownership to claim their goods, Herr said. Consumers should contact Consumer Affairs at 973-504-6442 or 973-504-6228 to gain access to the Urban facility. A violation of the Consumer Fraud Act carries a maximum penalty of $7,500 for the first offense and $15,000 for the second and each subsequent offense. A violation of the Licensing Act carries a penalty of $2,500 for the first offense and $5,000 for the second and each subsequent offense. Deputy Attorney General Alan R. Niedz of the Division of Law is handling this matter for the State.


Dominick Suter really did bail out of the US leaving behind EVERYTHING in the Urban Moving Systems building.



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 09:14 AM
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you should all pay close attention to what sibel says...


the war on terror, al ciada and the events of 911 was all planned



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by homervb
The FBI is covering up any Saudi involvement in the acts of 9/11. 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens, they obtained their Visas from Saudi Arabia, evidence shows the Saudi royal family were funding the hijackers, they even housed the hijackers around the US.


??? Huh? If 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens then where else could they legally apply for Visas except from a bureau in Saudi Arabia? The only country I know of that demands people seeking entry to go to some other country's bureau is North Korea, and that's only because there isn't a whole lot of people trying to get into North Korea. Mostly, there's a whole lot of people trying to get out.



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by homervb
The FBI is covering up any Saudi involvement in the acts of 9/11. 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens, they obtained their Visas from Saudi Arabia, evidence shows the Saudi royal family were funding the hijackers, they even housed the hijackers around the US.


??? Huh? If 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens then where else could they legally apply for Visas except from a bureau in Saudi Arabia? The only country I know of that demands people seeking entry to go to some other country's bureau is North Korea, and that's only because there isn't a whole lot of people trying to get into North Korea. Mostly, there's a whole lot of people trying to get out.



Sorry bro,my bad. And I want to apologize for my anti-goodoldave rant I went on in the other thread. I know you couldn't care less but I know it was stupid of me and takes away from the topic at hand.

So...back to my question.. what's your response to the rest of what I've posted?
edit on 10-5-2012 by homervb because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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I agree with most of what you say, up to the point of US complicity. They are covering up Saudi involvement because SA is their best friend in the region other than Israel. Have a look at this

www.independent.co.uk...

There's a lot of realpolitik at work here. Some of it stinks. But I'm not sure any of it points to US govt involvement in 9/11.



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by homervb
Sorry bro,my bad. And I want to apologize for my anti-goodoldave rant I went on in the other thread. I know you couldn't care less but I know it was stupid of me and takes away from the topic at hand.


Apology accepted. I've said this many times before- you truthers certainly aren't stupid and for the most part you're articulate and intelligent. It's simply the case you're getting all your information froma lot of internet con artists and you don't know you're being conned.


So...back to my question.. what's your response to the rest of what I've posted?


About the Saudi Royal family being involved somehow? It's certainly possible...probable, actually, seeing how the whole Saudi gov't is devoted to religious zealotry...that there's a member or two in the royal family who supports Bin Laden's brand of Islamic fundamentalism. That's certainly not to say the entire Saudi Royal family supports this, certainly not the king, since Bin Laden attempted to overthrow his monarchy and the king gave him a death sentence in absentia, so he'd be mindlessly foolish to back anything Bin Laden would be doing. If anything, it's be some fiftieth or sixtieth cousin's cousin looking for a fast track to the Saudi throne. In this context, it would make perfect sense why the feds would want to downplay Royal complicity- King Abdullah himself had nothing to do with the attack and they didn't want him to be a target of an anti-muslim backlash that gave the real collaborator an open door to overthrow the monarchy (which is what Bin Laden wants). Still, it would have been nice for the feds to come out and explain that if that's what indeed happened.

Of course, you have to know this just means 9/11 really was an attack by islamic fundamentalists and it throws all the "secret controlled demolitions" and "false flag operation to take over the world" talk into the trash, right?
edit on 10-5-2012 by GoodOlDave because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
I agree with most of what you say, up to the point of US complicity. They are covering up Saudi involvement because SA is their best friend in the region other than Israel. Have a look at this

www.independent.co.uk...

There's a lot of realpolitik at work here. Some of it stinks. But I'm not sure any of it points to US govt involvement in 9/11.


Aww..... that’s so cute, they're best friends that’s why they are covering up. No US complicity at all just a couple of bff's.



You guys crack me up.
edit on 10-5-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave
Of course, you have to know this just means 9/11 really was an attack by islamic fundamentalists and it throws all the "secret controlled demolitions" and "false flag operation to take over the world" talk into the trash, right?


Well, in a way yes and in a way no. Personally, to me,it would still be a false flag op if Bush forced his people to create a connection between bin Laden & Iraq. The FBI knowing the Saudis were connected, but still withholding the information and pointing fingers directly at Iraq & bin Laden is them taking the attacks and using them in their favor (to the highest degree). As for the controlled demolition...well I'm not an expert, most of us aren't. But the pancake theory is just as legit as the controlled demolition theory...well because they're both just theories. If the controlled demolition theory holds true, then maybe the MOSSAD/Saudis were capable of infiltrating the WTC (whether by means of a front for some kind of renovation company or whatever) and they brought those buildings down.

I don't know if I'd be the 1st truther to say this, but I really don't believe the US government wired the WTC buildings for demolition. Who the hell would they hire to wire it and expect them not to talk to anyone? Higher officials in the government may have their own political agenda, but people below them are every day people with a conscious. And I know that the FAA, NORAD, and the military had absolutely no role in this, they were panicked to no end.

I'm ranting I know lol this Saudis thing and the presence of MOSSAD at the time of the attacks just throws a wrench in my original train of thought on 9/11
edit on 10-5-2012 by homervb because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 



About the Saudi Royal family being involved somehow? It's certainly possible...probable, actually, seeing how the whole Saudi gov't is devoted to religious zealotry...that there's a member or two in the royal family who supports Bin Laden's brand of Islamic fundamentalism. That's certainly not to say the entire Saudi Royal family supports this, certainly not the king, since Bin Laden attempted to overthrow his monarchy and the king gave him a death sentence in absentia, so he'd be mindlessly foolish to back anything Bin Laden would be doing. If anything, it's be some fiftieth or sixtieth cousin's cousin looking for a fast track to the Saudi throne. In this context, it would make perfect sense why the feds would want to downplay Royal complicity- King Abdullah himself had nothing to do with the attack and they didn't want him to be a target of an anti-muslim backlash that gave the real collaborator an open door to overthrow the monarchy (which is what Bin Laden wants). Still, it would have been nice for the feds to come out and explain that if that's what indeed happened.


After analyzing many of GoodOlDaves posts I have come to a conclusion that he is in fact a Truther.
When I first found this forum it was GoodOlDave who made me start researching 9/11, and I feel like I’m not the only one.

There is also a possibility that he actually works for Alex Jones, because I would have never actually listened to Alex Jones if GoodOlDave didn’t post his favorite video of him.



Of course, you have to know this just means 9/11 really was an attack by islamic fundamentalists and it throws all the "secret controlled demolitions" and "false flag operation to take over the world" talk into the trash, right?


Well I guess he's a undercover truther.

It's OK Dave you can come out of the closet, we'll understand.

edit on 10-5-2012 by maxella1 because: i cant spell



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by maxella1
reply to post by GoodOlDave
 



About the Saudi Royal family being involved somehow? It's certainly possible...probable, actually, seeing how the whole Saudi gov't is devoted to religious zealotry...that there's a member or two in the royal family who supports Bin Laden's brand of Islamic fundamentalism. That's certainly not to say the entire Saudi Royal family supports this, certainly not the king, since Bin Laden attempted to overthrow his monarchy and the king gave him a death sentence in absentia, so he'd be mindlessly foolish to back anything Bin Laden would be doing. If anything, it's be some fiftieth or sixtieth cousin's cousin looking for a fast track to the Saudi throne. In this context, it would make perfect sense why the feds would want to downplay Royal complicity- King Abdullah himself had nothing to do with the attack and they didn't want him to be a target of an anti-muslim backlash that gave the real collaborator an open door to overthrow the monarchy (which is what Bin Laden wants). Still, it would have been nice for the feds to come out and explain that if that's what indeed happened.


After analyzing many of GoodOlDaves posts I have come to a conclusion that he is in fact a Truther.
When I first found this forum it was GoodOlDave who made me start researching 9/11, and I feel like I’m not the only one.

There is also a possibility that he actually works for Alex Jones, because I would have never actually listened to Alex Jones if GoodOlDave didn’t post his favorite video of him.



Of course, you have to know this just means 9/11 really was an attack by islamic fundamentalists and it throws all the "secret controlled demolitions" and "false flag operation to take over the world" talk into the trash, right?


Well I guess he's a undercover truther.

It's OK Dave you can come out of the closet, we'll understand.

edit on 10-5-2012 by maxella1 because: i cant spell


Well I've had my bouts with Dave, mainly me just being angry and stupid and going off on him lol He does provide well-thought-out counter arguments for everything but now I know it's not for misleading purposes, it's to guide you to a more sensible understanding of the evidence you and me are providing. In other words, without his counter arguments and his train of thought, I wouldn't be able to see how wrong some of my theories are. He's essentially saving me from sounding like an @ss in the future when discussing the truth behind 9/11



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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OP, lets work with what you have said for now.



15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens, they obtained their Visas from Saudi Arabia


First off all as Saudi citizens where else do you expect them to get visa’s form. Secondly surly if it was the case that Saudi Arabia were involved in this it would have made much more sense America to have invaded and occupied Saudi-Arabia (fully). I mean if you really think about it logically based on your argument it would make much more sense for America to have gone after Saudi-Arabia, just think of all that oil they could have stole.



Saudi royal family were funding the hijackers


Now we do know that some elements of the Saudi royal family helped Bin Laden escape to Sudan but do you have any evidence that theyThat they did, although it’s a very complex saga that led to that intelligence blunder. I could explain it all but then I get flamed by truthers. bank rolled the Hamburg Cell.



Do you still think 19 Arabs with nothing but box cutters managed to bypass the world's greatest defense?


Yes and why, because prior to 9/11 airport security was nothing like it is today. If you read the 9/11 commission they make this very clear.



The government told us al-qaeda and Iraq


That they did, although it’s a very complex saga that led to that intelligence blunder. I could explain it all but then I get flamed by truthers.



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by homervb
Well, in a way yes and in a way no. Personally, to me,it would still be a false flag op if Bush forced his people to create a connection between bin Laden & Iraq. The FBI knowing the Saudis were connected, but still withholding the information and pointing fingers directly at Iraq & bin Laden is them taking the attacks and using them in their favor (to the highest degree).


That would be the LIHOP ("Let It Happen On Purpose") train of thought, vs. the MIHOP ("Make It Happen On Purpose") train of thought. The LIHOP is defintely more feasible since with MIHOP we're required to believe there are all these armies of sinister secret agents with near supernatural powers plotting to take over the world and who frequently do bizarre and ridiculously complex stunts for no reason (like staging a fake crash site in the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania). All the conspirators would need to do for LIHOP is literally "nothing", and allow what's coming down the road at us to come down the road.

In this case, you're in the same boat I'm in- the events definitely warrant further investigations but we're being shouted out by the "sinister secret agents staged a fake crash site in Pennsylvania" people.


I don't know if I'd be the 1st truther to say this, but I really don't believe the US government wired the WTC buildings for demolition. Who the hell would they hire to wire it and expect them not to talk to anyone? Higher officials in the government may have their own political agenda, but people below them are every day people with a conscious. And I know that the FAA, NORAD, and the military had absolutely no role in this, they were panicked to no end.


I agree. In an administration that can't even out a CIA agent without hordes of journalists tracking it back to them, claiming that anyone could cover up such a monstrously huge and complex conspiracy is preposterous.


I'm ranting I know lol this Saudis thing and the presence of MOSSAD at the time of the attacks just throws a wrench in my original train of thought on 9/11


Let's face it, this is the Uniited States, where all roads in the world eventually lead to, so it should come as no surprise that EVERYONE has agents here. North Korean agents are probably here watching what the South Korean are doing, the Cubans probably have agents here watching what the Cuban exiles are doing, the British probably have agents here watching to see what the IRA is up to, the Chinese almost certainly have agents here watching what the supporters of Tibet are doing...so it should come as no surprise that Israel had agents here watching what the Palestinian agents were doing. To the Israelis all Palentinian roads leads to an attack on Israel, which is the only context I get from their sayign "We're not your enemy. The Palestinians are your enemy" so after years of Palestinian terrorism they couldn't not assume the attack was the work of Palestinians.

The fact is, there's a lot of things going on in the world that have been goign on for years. That doesn't necessarily justify it, but it does explain why it's happening. All these people who really have no inkling of what's going on are seeing all this for the first time and they yell SECRET PLOT TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD, and I find this to be every bit the disinformation they say the gov't is pushing, because it encourages people to bark up a thousand wrong trees.

The fact that there are all these fear mongors like Alex Jones and Dylan Avery doesn't exactly help anyone get to the bottom of this, either.



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by homervb

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
Of course, you have to know this just means 9/11 really was an attack by islamic fundamentalists and it throws all the "secret controlled demolitions" and "false flag operation to take over the world" talk into the trash, right?


Well, in a way yes and in a way no. Personally, to me,it would still be a false flag op if Bush forced his people to create a connection between bin Laden & Iraq. The FBI knowing the Saudis were connected, but still withholding the information and pointing fingers directly at Iraq & bin Laden is them taking the attacks and using them in their favor (to the highest degree). As for the controlled demolition...well I'm not an expert, most of us aren't. But the pancake theory is just as legit as the controlled demolition theory...well because they're both just theories. If the controlled demolition theory holds true, then maybe the MOSSAD/Saudis were capable of infiltrating the WTC (whether by means of a front for some kind of renovation company or whatever) and they brought those buildings down.

I don't know if I'd be the 1st truther to say this, but I really don't believe the US government wired the WTC buildings for demolition. Who the hell would they hire to wire it and expect them not to talk to anyone? Higher officials in the government may have their own political agenda, but people below them are every day people with a conscious. And I know that the FAA, NORAD, and the military had absolutely no role in this, they were panicked to no end.

I'm ranting I know lol this Saudis thing and the presence of MOSSAD at the time of the attacks just throws a wrench in my original train of thought on 9/11
edit on 10-5-2012 by homervb because: (no reason given)


This is exactly what my opinion is. Just the fact that there is a masive coverup by the government means to me that they are complicit. Some characters here on ATS deny that there's even a coverup at all. Who knows if it was a controlled demolition when there were no investigation, they created the 9/11 Commission just to get the Jersey Girls of their backs. NIST never looked for explosives because they couldn't hear the booms in video footage, LOL.

Everything stinks regarding 9/11.

Let's look forward politics is not gonna cut it this time, people are angry and want answers.
edit on 10-5-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 





That would be the LIHOP ("Let It Happen On Purpose") train of thought, vs. the MIHOP ("Make It Happen On Purpose") train of thought. The LIHOP is defintely more feasible since with MIHOP we're required to believe there are all these armies of sinister secret agents with near supernatural powers plotting to take over the world and who frequently do bizarre and ridiculously complex stunts for no reason (like staging a fake crash site in the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania). All the conspirators would need to do for LIHOP is literally "nothing", and allow what's coming down the road at us to come down the road.





posted on May, 10 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by maxella1

After analyzing many of GoodOlDaves posts I have come to a conclusion that he is in fact a Truther.
When I first found this forum it was GoodOlDave who made me start researching 9/11, and I feel like I’m not the only one.


Well, that's a good thing...though I can't say I'm the one who can take the credit for that. All I'm doing is encouraging people to realize, "you know, something doesn't sound quite right about what Dylan Avery and Richard Gage are telling me". The rest is simply your following your curiosity and wanting to find out those things Dylan Avery and Richard Gage *aren't* telling you. You certainly aren't stupid. You simply haven't been given all the facts to be able to make an informed opinion.

As I've said, whenever a conspiracy theorist starts holding his/her own conspiracy theories up to the same level of critical analysis they do to the "official story", they won't be a conspiracy theorist for very long.



There is also a possibility that he actually works for Alex Jones, because I would have never actually listened to Alex Jones if GoodOlDave didn’t post his favorite video of him.


OR, it could be that I listen to both the conspiracy websites and sources that attempt to explain what happened on 9/11 to see who has the better credibility, plus, I can't point out the lies that the 9/11 conspiracy sites are shovelling out if I don't know what the lies actually are. It would be hypocritical of me to simply say "Alex Jones is a crackpot fear mongor who's trying to entice people with abject paranoia" without being able to demonstratively show how he's a crackpot fear mongor who's trying to entice people with abject paranoia...such as when he posted a timer on the Infowars website counting down the seconds to "imminent war with Iran" a few years back. Yep, that war we fought with Iran was a pretty nasty one, wasn't it?



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
OP, lets work with what you have said for now.
First off all as Saudi citizens where else do you expect them to get visa’s form. Secondly surly if it was the case that Saudi Arabia were involved in this it would have made much more sense America to have invaded and occupied Saudi-Arabia (fully). I mean if you really think about it logically based on your argument it would make much more sense for America to have gone after Saudi-Arabia, just think of all that oil they could have stole.


Well that was my initial point, if Saudis funded the operation, then why did all US intelligence agencies point the finger at Iraq?



Now we do know that some elements of the Saudi royal family helped Bin Laden escape to Sudan but do you have any evidence that theyThat they did, although it’s a very complex saga that led to that intelligence blunder. I could explain it all but then I get flamed by truthers. bank rolled the Hamburg Cell.


I've used google news (you can sort by custom date range, so I put 9/11/2001-9/11/2002) to trace back Omar al-Bayoumi in all news articles at that time. Here's what I found:




San Diego Man Arrested For Funding Hijackers Suspect Believed To Have Helped Terrorists Financially POSTED: 8:03 a.m. PDT September 18, 2001 UPDATED: 3:32 p.m. PDT September 18, 2001 SAN DIEGO -- A San Diego man suspected of providing financial assistance to two terrorists involved in the deadly attacks last week was in custody Tuesday and federal agents sought other possible local suspects, 10News reported. Agents tracked the man through local bank records, The San Diego Union-Tribune reported. The man, whose name was withheld, was arrested on Sunday night, according to the newspaper. "(He) was an associate, friend and facilitator for the two of them," a federal official told the newspaper, referring to Nawaf Alhamzi and Khalid Al- Midhar. Alhamzi and Al-Midhar, along with a man named Hani Hanjoor, have been identified as hijackers. Authorities say that Alhamzi, 25, Al-Midhar, 34, and Hanjoor, 29, lived for a time in Clairemont Mesa and Lemon Grove in the year leading up to the attacks in New York and at the Pentagon. While in San Diego, the men apparently sought training as pilots and may have attended at least one community college, FBI Special Agent Erika Foxworth said. Authorities told the newspaper that the man arrested on Sunday is believed to be a national of a Middle Eastern country. They traced him through bank accounts other financial records.




Yes and why, because prior to 9/11 airport security was nothing like it is today. If you read the 9/11 commission they make this very clear.


I wasn't referring to airport security lol I was referring to them slipping through the sights of the FAA, NORAD, and the military.






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