Kelly Thomas Video Finally Released

reply to post by jam321


Background Baby!! They are everywhere!! ICE Incoming!

reply to post by EyesWideShut


The State of New Jersey also comes with a Constitution and Declaration of Rights. Section 1 of that Declaration of Rights reads:

1. All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain natural and unalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and of pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness.

Section 21 of that same Declaration of Rights reads:

21. This enumeration of rights and privileges shall not be construed to impair or deny others retained by the people.

Presumably you took an oath of office to uphold these laws. So, when you claim that "if you see a crime being committed you have an obligation to act" if you saw six police officers brutally and viciously beating a homeless man to death your obligation would be to act. That is to say to stop the murder happening, not join in on the whoop ass.

The issue with Kelly Thomas had nothing at all to do with him sitting in front of someones house, shirtless or not, and has been established at least one of those thugs parading as a police officer knew full well who Kelly Thomas was. Further, your assertion that if you see a homeless man you do not recognize this does not grant you special privileges to stop and harass that homeless man. I understand that most police officers have become comfortably numb in their belief that the homeless are generally stupid vagrants who do not understand their rights, but as the economy continues to go down the crapper, this will change and you will run into homeless who know their rights fully. Would you beat the crap out of a homeless man asserting their rights and call it non-compliance?

Your claim that it isn't up for debate is correct. I have listed two laws of which you took an oath to uphold and protect. That is not up for debate, unless you did not take that oath, but even then, this does not grant you any license to act unlawfully. That is not up for debate.

What I am hung up on is the law. I expect all law enforcement officers to uphold it and protect the unalienable rights of all people regardless of their residential status, or mental capabilities.

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
he's getting a beating.

What percentage of officers would you say think this way?

reply to post by EyesWideShut


EYES WIDE OPEN IN THE SHADOWS

Originally posted by EyesWideShut

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
There ARE some people that need a sidewalk shampoo

It's sad that LEO can't just do their job. LEO is not judge, jury, and executioner. They should not have an opinion of the person they are bringing in. That is for the 2nd step in the legal system, the courts.

edit on 9-5-2012 by gentledissident because: (no reason given)

Sorry, If I observe A gangbanger punch your mother and take her purse he's getting a beating.

Conversely, if any law abiding person observes a police officer punch my grandmother and take her purse, shouldn't that police officer be given a beating as well? Or do you think only those with a badge are privileged in this matter?

reply to post by silo13


They killed a ANGEL..Its going to come around and around

reply to post by MemoryShock


This is a confluence of tax cuts closing public mental institutions worsening with Reagan in the 80's and what happens when you give dull brutes nearly limitless power.

Police brutality has been occuring as long as there have been police, but only with video has it been so publicized or believed.

The 60's brought militant groups like the Black Panthers as a response to rampant police murders and assaults but the Rodney King beating brought it to a wider awareness (read white folk in the 'burbs). The riot when the cops were aquitted was as justified as a riot can be.

Tasers have made it worse as cops can now "safely" fry folks whenever it suits certain members of the force, and their lying to cover each others' illegal acts is famous (i.e. wall of blue).

We may need police and there are decent members of the force, but there have to be deeper psych tests and training and more punishment of corrupt and violent members... and many more video journalists.

Poor guy... what a horrible way to die

Originally posted by EyesWideShut

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
There ARE some people that need a sidewalk shampoo

It's sad that LEO can't just do their job. LEO is not judge, jury, and executioner. They should not have an opinion of the person they are bringing in. That is for the 2nd step in the legal system, the courts.

edit on 9-5-2012 by gentledissident because: (no reason given)

Sorry, If I observe A gangbanger punch your mother and take her purse he's getting a beating.

And at that point you are no better than the gangbanger.

No....actually you are worse than the gangbanger because we expect the gangbanger to break the law, however the law enforcement official is expected to lead by example, serve with virtue and dignity, and obey the law. Or does that badge on your chest make you above the law?

I swear to god, its the mentality such as yours and the comment you just made that makes me despise you tyrants so much. Its okay to break the law as long as in doing so you are enforcing the law?

Really? Seems to me that you went into law enforcement so you could do exactly what the a$$holes in the video did, abuse the responsibility you were entrusted with.

A title of authority does not infer power, it infers responsibility.

ETA: Just curious, how many of you and your donut eating buddies would it take to give that beating? It seems none of you are capable of "subduing" even an 80 y.o. woman unless there is a large group of you.

reply to post by Nucleardiver


Well, Nukediver, I sincerely wish you had been there when I was beaten (along with my doggie) during my possesion arrest... I was white, compliant and scared nearly into soiling my drawers without being hit when the swat team decended on me with auto weapons and nearly killed us.

True, I was a "dirty drug user" but I held up my arms (while keeping my dogs leash taught) and got three broken ribs, a broken nose and an education on modern law enforecement for my trouble. Hearing my dog bark then yelp in pain was worse.

The capper was being driven to the station with my dog licking the blood from my face and having the pig in the front seat wax poetic on how wrong the drug laws were, how sorry he was and how I didn't seem like the average low life drug user...

Having the Lt. fake charges against me and then his getting 30 yrs for corruptionyears later is another story...

We can play the logical fallacies game if you want, I'll even leave a link for all of the simples that fell prey to your manipulation and starred you. Logical Fallacies for Idiots

Since I started honest, but you want to play the "Cut & Paste" game, we'll do that.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by EyesWideShut

 

The State of New Jersey also comes with a Constitution and Declaration of Rights. Section 1 of that Declaration of Rights reads:

1. All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain natural and unalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and of pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness.

Section 21 of that same Declaration of Rights reads:

21. This enumeration of rights and privileges shall not be construed to impair or deny others retained by the people.

Presumably you took an oath of office to uphold these laws.

Not a presumption

So, when you claim that "if you see a crime being committed you have an obligation to act" if you saw six police officers brutally and viciously beating a homeless man to death your obligation would be to act. That is to say to stop the murder happening, not join in on the whoop ass.

That Ladies and gentlemen is called "the fallacy of misplaced concreteness" Because I explained that I had a duty to act in the state of New Jersey because we don't have "jurisdictions" , I now have come across a hypothetical situation in which I happened to see 6 other fictional LEO's beat a homeless man to death and I joined in somehow.

By the way it wasn't a claim, it was a statement. A statement that you've taken out of context and was a reply to your statement here

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by EyesWideShut

 

There is not just the damning video to contend with here. There is the matter of subject matter jurisdiction, and I would hope as an LEO that you would not have threatened someone with spraying them if they didn't comply when you never had any jurisdiction to expect compliance to begin with.

The issue with Kelly Thomas had nothing at all to do with him sitting in front of someones house, shirtless or not

Actually the Issue is when you get a call, you respond to it.... how you deal with it on scene determines the outcome. It could be unfounded, you don't know until you get there. If you get a job, you don't get to pick if you arrive to the job or not, that's the dispatcher that chooses.

and has been established at least one of those thugs parading as a police officer knew full well who Kelly Thomas was.

I never said anything to the contrary

Further, your assertion that if you see a homeless man you do not recognize this does not grant you special privileges to stop and harass that homeless man.

Here's where you're wrong. I dont need special privileges to stop anyone, they're all here,
List of NJ Statutes I like how you slip the part in about "Harrasing the homeless man", If there were a group of young urban youths infront of your house at night doing nothing, and the police just drove by... I'm sure you'd want me to "Harrass" them

I understand that most police officers have become comfortably numb in their belief that the homeless are generally stupid vagrants who do not understand their rights

Argumentum ad populum , but go ahead...

but as the economy continues to go down the crapper, this will change and you will run into homeless who know their rights fully.

I expect most Americans to know their rights...

Would you beat the crap out of a homeless man asserting their rights and call it non-compliance?

Straw Man arguement, #1 why am I beating the crap out of anyone in this fictional storyline?

Your claim that it isn't up for debate is correct. I have listed two laws of which you took an oath to uphold and protect. That is not up for debate, unless you did not take that oath, but even then, this does not grant you any license to act unlawfully. That is not up for debate.

You're ignorant

What I am hung up on is the law. I expect all law enforcement officers to uphold it and protect the unalienable rights of all people regardless of their residential status, or mental capabilities.

Ditto

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

What I am hung up on is the law.

Good, If you're going to quote them....then quote the right ones.

NJSA 39:1-1
NJSA 39:2-1 through NJSA 39:2-9.2
NJSA 39:2-9.3 through NJSA 39:2A-10
NJSA 39:2A-11 through NJSA 39:2A-29
NJSA 39:2A-30 through 39:2A-41
NJSA 39:3-1 through NJSA 39:3-6.10
NJSA 39:3-6.11 through NJSA 39:3-8
NJSA 39:3-8.1 through NJSA 39:3-10f
NJSA 39:3-10f1 through NJSA 39:3-10.11
NJSA 39:3-10.11a through NJSA 39:3-10.20
NJSA 39:3-10.21 through NJSA 39:3-12.2
NJSA 39:3-13 through NJSA 39:3-13.6
NJSA 39:3-13.7 through NJSA 39:3-19.5
NJSA 39:3-19.6 through NJSA 39:3-25
NJSA 39:3-26 through NJSA 39:3-27.24
NJSA 39:3-27.25 through NJSA 39:3-27.54
NJSA 39:3-27.55 through NJSA 39:3-27.81
NJSA 39:3-27.82 through NJSA 39:3-27.103
NJSA 39:3-27.104 through NJSA 39:3-27.128
NJSA 39:3-27.129 through NJSA 39:3-30.3
NJSA 39:3-31 through NJSA 39:3-36
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NJSA 39:3-67 through NJSA 39A:3-75.2
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NJSA 39:3-79.10 through NJSA 39:3-82
NJSA 39:3-84
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NJSA 39:3B-20 through NJSA 39:3C-18
NJSA 39:3C-19 through NJSA 39:4-8.1
NJSA 39:4-8.2 through NJSA 39:4-10.9
NJSA 39:4-10.10 through NJSA 39:4-14.3o
NJSA 39:4-14.3p through NJSA 39:4-29
NJSA 39:4-30 through NJSA 39:4-46
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NJSA 39:4-49.1 through NJSA 39:4-49.3
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NJSA 39:4-50.5 through NJSA 39:4-50.23
NJSA 39:4-51 through NJSA 39:4-51b
NJSA 39:4-52 through NJSA 39:4-63
NJSA 39:4-64
NJSA 39:4-66.1 through NJSA 39:4-80
NJSA 39:4-81 through NJSA 39:4-85.1
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NJSA 39:4-129 through NJSA 39:4-139.3
NJSA 39:4-139.5 through NJSA 39:4-183.9
NJSA 39:4-183.10 through NJSA 39:4-197.9
NJSA 39:4-197.10 through NJSA 39:4-206
NJSA 39:4-207 through NJSA 39:5-24
NJSA 39:5-25 through NJSA 39:5-30.8
NJSA 39:5-30.9 through NJSA 39:5-47
NJSA 39:5-51 through NJSA 39:5B-31
NJSA 39:5B-31.1
NJSA 39:5B-32 through NJSA 39:5F-4
NJSA 39:5F-5 through NJSA 39:6-26
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NJSA 39:6-72 through NJSA 39:6-86.4.
NJSA 39:6-86.5 through NJSA 39:6A-3.1
NJSA 39:6A-3.2 through NJSA 39:6A-4.6.
NJSA 39:6A-4.7 through NJSA 39:6A-7
NJSA 39:6A-8 through NJSA 39:6A-21
NJSA 39:6A-22 through NJSA 39:6B-1
NJSA 39:6B-2 through NJSA 39:7-2.2
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NJSA 39:8-69 through NJSA 39:10-1
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NJSA 39:10-11.1 through NJSA 39:10-30
NJSA 39:10-31 through NJSA 39:10B-2
NJSA 39:10B-3 through NJSA 39:12-4.1
NJSA 39:12-5 through NJSA 39:13-8
NJSA 27:23-29
NJAC 13:19-10.6
NJSA 2C:1-1 through NJSA 2C:1-8
NJSA 2C:1-9 through NJSA 2C:2-3
NJSA 2C:2-4 through NJSA 2C:3-3
NJSA 2C:3-4 through NJSA 2C:3-10
NJSA 2C:3-11 through NJSA 2C:5-1.
NJSA 2C:5-2 through NJSA 2C:7-2
NJSA 2C:7-3 through NJSA 2C:7-14
NJSA 2C:7-15 through NJSA 2C:11-1
NJSA 2C:11-2 through NJSA 2C:11-5
NJSA 2C:11-5.1 through NJSA 2C:11A-1
NJSA 2C:12-1 through NJSA 2C:12-10
NJSA 2C:12-10.1 through NJSA 2C:13-4
NJSA 2C:13-5 through NJSA 2C:14-2.1
NJSA 2C:14-3 through NJSA 2C:16-1
NJSA 2C:17-1 through NJSA 2C:18-2
NJSA 2C:18-3 through NJSA 2C:20-1.1
NJSA 2C:20-2 through NJSA 2C:20-5
NJSA 2C:20-6 through NJSA 2C:20-10.
NJSA 2C:20-11 through NJSA 2C:20-23
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NJSA 2C:21-2.3 through NJSA 2C:21-4.8
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NJSA 2C:21-8 through NJSA 2C:21-17.3
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NJSA 2C:35-15 through NJSA 2C:35-21
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NJSA 2C:35B-1 through NJSA 2C:35B-11
NJSA 2C:35B-12 through NJSA 2C:36A-1
NJSA 2C:37-1 through NJSA 2C:38-2
NJSA 2C:38-3 through NJSA 2C:39-1
NJSA 2C:39-2 through NJSA 2C:39-5
NJSA 2C:39-6
NJSA 2C: 39-6.1 through NJSA 2C:39-16
NJSA 2C:40-1 through NJSA 2C:40-23
NJSA 2C:40-24 through NJSA 2C:41-3
NJSA 2C:41-4 through NJSA 2C:43-2.1
NJSA 2C:43-2.2 through NJSA 2C:43-3.3
NJSA 2C:43-3.4 through NJSA 2C:43-6.4
NJSA 2C:43-7 through NJSA 2C:43-11
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NJSA 2C:47-5.1 through NJSA 2C:49-5
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NJSA 2C:64-3 through NJSA 2C:66-9
NJSA 2C:66-10 through NJSA 2C:98-4
NJSA 2C:104-1 through NJSA 2C:104-9.

Originally posted by Nucleardiver

Originally posted by EyesWideShut

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
There ARE some people that need a sidewalk shampoo

It's sad that LEO can't just do their job. LEO is not judge, jury, and executioner. They should not have an opinion of the person they are bringing in. That is for the 2nd step in the legal system, the courts.

edit on 9-5-2012 by gentledissident because: (no reason given)

Sorry, If I observe A gangbanger punch your mother and take her purse he's getting a beating.

And at that point you are no better than the gangbanger.

No....actually you are worse than the gangbanger because we expect the gangbanger to break the law, however the law enforcement official is expected to lead by example, serve with virtue and dignity, and obey the law. Or does that badge on your chest make you above the law?

I swear to god, its the mentality such as yours and the comment you just made that makes me despise you tyrants so much. Its okay to break the law as long as in doing so you are enforcing the law?

Really? Seems to me that you went into law enforcement so you could do exactly what the a$$holes in the video did, abuse the responsibility you were entrusted with.

A title of authority does not infer power, it infers responsibility.

ETA: Just curious, how many of you and your donut eating buddies would it take to give that beating? It seems none of you are capable of "subduing" even an 80 y.o. woman unless there is a large group of you.

edit on 9-5-2012 by Nucleardiver because: (no reason given)

I'm sorry you feel that way, I've let my moral compass guide me my whole life and it hasn't led me wrong yet. Everyone starts out wanting to change the world, then you learn how nasty & truly evil people are. People like you that are all self righteous behind the keyboard and quick to judge others. Everything isn't as black and white as you make it, I expect ANYBODY LEO or not to teach a guy a lesson that beats up and robs old ladies...People like that don't get rehabbed, they're called repeat offenders. How about if he raped your daughter or killed your wife? Would you still feel the same? If you did you wouldn't be human.

How many Fatal DUI's do you think you would have to see, how many rapes, beatings , assaults & murders would you have to see before you said "You know what, @^#$% these people" If they wanna be animals , let them kill themselves off. But no, like everyone else you go to work day to day and try to make a little difference, even though somedays it feels like pissing on a house fire. You deal with people that hate you all day....until they need you, then you can't get there fast enough.

Then you have guys like THIS that get shot in the face for no reason.

There are very few 100% Good and 100% Evil people, EVERYONE is a mix. Cops aren't robots. They're not infallible & if you think you can do the job better, go take the test.

If you were observant enough to notice my 1st post you'd notice I said "I had an LEO background" So I know what happens on the street, I changed careers years ago and became a firefighter... don't judge people until you know them.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Originally posted by EyesWideShut

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
There ARE some people that need a sidewalk shampoo

It's sad that LEO can't just do their job. LEO is not judge, jury, and executioner. They should not have an opinion of the person they are bringing in. That is for the 2nd step in the legal system, the courts.

edit on 9-5-2012 by gentledissident because: (no reason given)

Sorry, If I observe A gangbanger punch your mother and take her purse he's getting a beating.

Conversely, if any law abiding person observes a police officer punch my grandmother and take her purse, shouldn't that police officer be given a beating as well? Or do you think only those with a badge are privileged in this matter?

WHERE DID I SAY THAT?!? On the off chance you saw a cop beat you mom and take her purse, I would expect you to do what you needed to.





I don't know If you remember this but I applauded that dad. Right is right and wrong is wrong, regardless of their chosen profession. You're still trying to villify me, have fun. I can PROMISE you I've done more good through my actions and works than you have, you just theorize and post a lot. Get off the computer and go make a difference! Oh yeah, it's safer to sit here and criticize.

Originally posted by Apollo7
reply to post by EyesWideShut

 

EYES WIDE OPEN IN THE SHADOWS

Really Bro?

Originally posted by Apollo7
reply to post by MemoryShock

 

Clearly MURDER!!!! Who is the illegal MEXICAN COP that was just waiting to kill a poor homeless white boy?? What State did this occur in?? You damn idiot cops just killed a ANGEL!! May GOD and Satans Wrath fall upon all of you!! Illegal Search and Seizure! Cruel Punishment for doing nothing! FEDS FEDS where are you guys?? Kick some damn ass and make these idiots pay!! I am ashamed to live in America!! PS- Check the poor childs blood for overdose of insulin on the ambulance.

edit on 8-5-2012 by Apollo7 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
he's getting a beating.

What percentage of officers would you say think this way?

What percentage of PEOPLE think this way? You're HONESTLY telling me if some dude beat your mother and stole her purse you'd do nothing?!? I'm sorry, Maybe I should have used "love & Light" to shield her from the punches... get real.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


That is straight out murder in Australia no questions or buts

Originally posted by popsmayhem
this is why you do not resist arrest
Its called shut up and lawyer up..

now why you do this so these
guys cant get off on beating you up
this guy in the video is a complete
moron..

he should of shut up let them apes arrest him and let his lawyer
do the dirty work

he fell right for what they were wanting to do

The guy has mental issues, he doesn't think or behave rationally all the time, The poolice are trained to deal with difficult and challenging behaviour in a Measured and Considered manner expresssly because every person the meet is not going to be the full ticket and may not be competent enough to follow orders.
As for him being a Moron for letting himself be brutalised and beaten to death by a bunch of people trained and expected to protect life, i couldn't disagree more, the only morons in that video are wearing uniforms.

So sick , facist pigs

California Uberalles !

Originally posted by popsmayhem

Originally posted by MrWendal

He obviously does not care much for his disabled
son it would be sick they try getting money now
out of the deal which sounds like what is going on

edit on 8-5-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

How do you know he did not care? Because the son was homeless? How do you know that Kelly Thomas was not on the street by choice? You are making a million assumptions based on no facts at all. Not exactly a smart thing to do.

I don't know but coming out
after the fact his son is dead
crying foul seems fishy..

Was it wrong what they did, yes..

I would like to know more about why
his father let his mentally disabled
son out on the street homeless
almost starving to death..

That said should the PD pay yes
they should pay finacially and
the cops should pay with prison time..

Just would hate to see this dad get a million
dollars after letting his son be on the street like that
would that not make you more pissed about this whole
situation it does me... poor guy got beaten to death
with no family crying for his dad.. while his dad it seems
couldnt give two craps about him at the time but comes
out right IN TIME to collect a little or ALOT of cash.. that distgust me just as much

edit on 8-5-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

Fishy??

How about this fact that you (obviously) don't know about and (obviously) have not been following this case to know many details. This case I have followed for a year now.

Kelly Thomas's father is Ron Thomas, a retired Orange County Sheriff's deputy. Last year the City of Fullerton offered Ron Thomas $900,000 to go away. He rejected that money, he demanded an investigation. He is not interested in a pay day, he is interested in Justice for his dead Son.

The City of Fullerton in response to this incident placed one Officer on medical leave and the 5 others remained on duty. Had it not been for this Father and a lot of supporters, this case would be one you never heard of. It would have went unreported. Police confiscated videos and did everything they could to hide this. This video we see now is actually from the City of Fullerton and is actually controlled by a Police Dispatcher. There is still one more video out there that we have not seen..... it was taken on the scene by a Real Estate Agent and confiscated by Police.

Here is some links that might help some of you catch up. This first one is an article from August of 2011 which contains MANY links to MANY other aspects of this case.
August 11,2011: One eyed cop ID'd as main culprit.

Yes one of the cops has one eye which he lost on duty in LA about 3 weeks after leaving the Academy. Funny to note... this Officer was collecting disability pay from his previous employer while he was working for Fullerton Police Department, getting full pay and performing his full duties. In other words, he was enforcing the Law in Fullerton while breaking the law himself.

Here is a more recent article that talks about this ongoing case and the evidence as it is being presented currently in court. Plenty of info, more links, but what I love the most is a photo in this article. About halfway down is a picture of Officer Ramos's injuries that he was being treated for on the scene as Kelly Thomas laid in the street dying. This is the aftermath that occurred to Officer Ramos after describing what he called a fight for his own life. You will also see a crime scene photo of the HUGE pool of blood left in the street after Kelly Thomas had been moved. I warn you... that crime scene photo is disgusting.
WARNING: This link includes crime scene photos

Yes, Officer Ramos was suffering from a skinned elbow after his "fight for his life" against a small, malnourished, mentally ill, homeless man.

Here is another Fullerton Officer involved in the Kelly Thomas beating in action, in a separate incident. This particular Officer has not been charged with any crime in relation to Kelly Thomas.


Pops, I have to warn you in this case, you should really not jump to conclusions. You are only making yourself out to look incredibly foolish and ignorant. This has been an ongoing case, there is TONS of info out there on this case. This case has nothing to do with the Father looking for a pay day. If it was not for the Father and a lot of Public Outrage, this case would never have made it into the papers. We all know it is not on CNN, but I would argue that this case is bigger than the Trayvon Martin case and we are only hearing about because of the internet and alternative media.

reply to post by Apollo7

They killed a ANGEL..Its going to come around and around

It's just too sad. I've met two angels - I know they were - but that's for another thread.

I have to add I've a lot of respect for the father. 900k turn down slap in the puss to the cops. I know I know - it wouldn't bring his son back but it sure would help take some stress off him. Real respect for the father. Real respect.

peace to all involved