Islam brings people to Jesus...

Most of the posts have missed the point of the OP... which is about how Islam honors Jesus, thereby being another religion apart from Christianity that brings people to Jesus.

It seems the very mention of the word "Islam" or "Mohammad" in a thread is a signal for many people to just come in here and make anti-muslim posts....while ignoring the context of the OP.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


The context of your OP is that Islam brings people to Jesus. I addressed why this is an inaccurate lie, but you did not address a single point I rebutted.

The only thing you did was try to play compare/contrast your religious upbringing with mine. And the only reason I even brought that up is because you accused me of being Catholic.

Spiritually enlightened individuals do not advocate war, executions, stoning, slavery, jizyah tax, nor spousal abuse.


Rebutt:




reply to post by Sahabi

Jesus is expected to return and slaughter the anti-christ along with the non-christians who follow the anti-christ??

Who wrote the Book of Revelations? Apostle John wrote it, not Jesus. It was John who foretold the battle of Armageddon, not Jesus.

Do Christians believe that Jesus returns and turn the other cheek to the anti-christ????

I am only going by the words and actions attributed to Jesus during his life, and not some prophesies of Apostle Paul or John. Jesus in his actual life DID teach to turn the other cheek.

Jesus is inseperable from Islam. People who are "brought" to Allah , end up understanding that Jesus was the Messiah.

Islam ONLY honors Jesus in name, title, and minor mention of biographical points. But no teachings of Jesus are taught in Islam. It is only the teachings of Muhammad and Allah.

Name some of those teachings

Gospels. I am talking about Gospels only. Biblical Gospels, Gnostic Gospels, Apocrypha Gospels.

The Gospels are filled with teachings not mentioned in the Qur'an. Here are a few off the top of my head akhi.

(Love All and Everything are the greatest laws)

Gospel of Matthew

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

(Love your enemies and those who curse you... not execute them like in Islam)

Gospel of Luke

“But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

(Kingdom of God is within)

Gospel of Thomas

"Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."


"...the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty."

"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" [John 10:34]



These teachings of Jesus are considered in opposition and a blasphemy to Islam, jihad, and jizyah tax.

Therefore, Islam DOES NOT bring people closer to Jesus. Islam brings people closer to Muhammad and Allah.

I think it can be said from this discussion that there is, at present, somewhat more accommodation on the Islamic side for the founder of Christianity than there is on the Christian side for the founder of Islam.

What the significance of that is, we leave it to you, the viewer, to determine, but I do think you will agree that it is a good thing that we are talking together."

Here is a picture of what the Holy Quran portrays of a good Christian:

...AND NEAREST AMONG THEM IN LOVE TO THE BELIEVERS WILT THOU FIND THOSE WHO SAY, "WE ARE CHRISTIANS"1: BECAUSE AMONG THESE ARE MEN DEVOTED TO LEARNING AND MEN WHO HAVE RENOUNDED THE WORLD. AND THEY ARE NOT ARROGANT.

HOLY QURAN 5:58


JESUS - HIS STATUS

Were the Muslims on the panel, trying to placate the viewers out of policy, deceit or diplomacy ? Nothing of the kind! They were only articulating what God Almighty had commanded them to say in the Holy Quran. As Muslim they had no choice. They had said in so many words -

"WE MUSLIMS BELIEVE, THAT JESUS WAS ONE OF THE MIGHTIEST MESSENGERS OF GOD, THAT HE WAS THE CHRIST, THAT HE WAS BORN MIRACULOUSLY - WITHOUT ANY MALE INTERVENTION (which many modern-day Christians do not believe today), THAT HE GAVE LIFE TO THE DEAD BY GOD'S PERMISSION, AND THAT HE HEALED THOSE BORN BLIND AND THE LEPERS BY GOD'S PERMISSION. IN FACT NO MUSLIM IS A MUSLIM IF HE DOES NOT BELIEVE IN JESUS!"

Pleasant SURPRISE

Over 90% of the people who witnessed this debate must have been pleasantly, but sceptically, surprised. They might have not believed their ears. They must have surmised that the Muslims were playing to the gallery-that they were trying to curry favour with their fellow Christian countrymen; that if the Muslims would say a few good words about Jesus, then in reciprocation the Christians might say a few good words about Muhummed (May the Peace and the Blessings of God be upon all His righteous servents- like Moses, Jesus, Muhummed ); that I scratch your back and you scratch my back - which would be a sham or hypocrisy.

HATE CULTIVATED

We cannot blame the Christians for their scepticism. They have been so programmed for centuries. They were trained to think the worst of the man Muhummed (pbuh) and his religion. How aptly did Thomas Carlyle say about his Christian brethren over a hundred and fifty years ago - "THE LIES WHICH WELL MEANING ZEAL HAS HEAPED ROUND THIS MAN (Muhummed) ARE DISGRACEFUL TO OURSELVES ONLY." We Muslims are partly responsible for this staggering ignorance of the 1,200,000,000 Christians of the world. We have not done anything substantial to remove the cobwebs.

OCEAN OF CHRISTIANITY

South Africa is an ocean of Christianity. If Libya boasts the highest percentage of Muslims on the continent of Africa, then the Republic of South Africa would also be entitled to boast the highest percentage of Christians. In this ocean of Christianity - the R.S.A. - the Muslim is barely 2% of the total population. We are a voteless minority-numerically we count for nothing; politically, we count for nothing, and economically, one white man, as Oppenheimer, could buy out the whole lot of us, lock, stock and barrel.

So, if we had feigned to appease, we might be excused. But no! We must proclaim our Master's Will; we must declare the Truth, whether we liked it or not. In the words of Jesus (pbuh): "Seek ye the truth, and the truth shall set you free" - (John 9:32).

___________________________________________________________

The Israelites had settled in the blessed land, Palestine.They ruled for a long time. They had a vast kingdom. Allah, the Almighty chose many prophets from among them.They followed the Holy Book, the Torah.The Prophet Dawud (peace be upon him) and his son Prophet Sulaiman (peace be upon him) won great popularity as kings and commanded high respect.Their followers believed in God and led noble lives.As the time passed by, they began to pay less attention to the teachings of God.They forgot the Divine favours.They made alterations in the Holy Book according to their own tastes.Most of the Israelites adopted indecent ways of life and committed major sins. At that time there existed a powerful kingdom in the world. It was called the kingdom of Romans.They were polytheists and pagans.They did not worship one God and prayed to many idols made of stones.The Roman society was divided into two factions. The ruling class was very strong and arrogant whereas the ordinary people lived in misery.They were ill-treated as slaves. The female sex enjoyed no privilege in that era. Palestine, the blessed land was ruled by Herod, a cruel king. The people disliked him. They were scared stiff of him.They could not utter a word of complaint against him lest they should be put to sword.

Read Further To Continue Christ in Islam

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Jesus and the third loaf of bread

Al-Qur'an only honors Jesus (alayhi salaam), by name, title (Christ/Messiah), and biography. Jesus' most fundemental teachings are no where to be found in the Qur'an.

If the Bible contains the teachings of Jesus, but the Qur'an only tells who Jesus is and never mentions his teachings... how is this representative of Islam bringing people to Jesus? Isn't this illustrative of Islam bringing people away from Jesus?

Now akhi, you may rebut that the Bible is corrupt by the hand of man. However, there are certain core, fundemental teachings shared in all of the various Canonical, Gnostic, and Apocryphal Gospels. If there is corruption, surely it would be in the discrepancies, not in the similarities.

And for the sake of clarity, I don't even care about the "Islam vs Christianity" view about Son of God, Trinity, or God in the Flesh. I'm not talking about these teachings. I am talking about Jesus' moral teachings. They do not exist in Islam.




• Jesus teaches non-violence, turn the other cheek. Islam teaches jihad.

• Jesus teaches to bless those who curse you. Islam teaches to execute blasphemers.

• Jesus teaches forgiveness. Islam teaches corporal punishemnt, execution, revenge killing, and blood money.

• Jesus taught, "he who is free of sin, let him cast the first stone." Islam teaches to stone.

• Jesus teaches to love others as yourself. Islam teaches to love your Muslim brother.

• Jesus says the master is not above the servant. Islam says you may keep slaves, and rape your female slaves.

• Jesus says to love your enemies. Islam says to wage jihad against enemies, and execute apostates and non-believers.

• Jesus said, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." Islam says to pay the jizyah tribute tax.

• Jesus heals the sick and raises the dead. Islam inflicts corporal punishment, amputation of limbs, and execution.





No teachings of Jesus exist in Islam.

Islam brings people closer to Muhammad and Allah, not closer to Jesus.

reply to post by Sahabi

Al-Qur'an only honors Jesus (alayhi salaam), by name, title (Christ/Messiah), and biography. Jesus' most fundemental teachings are no where to be found in the Qur'an.

My point was that through Islam 1.5 billion people have accepted Jesus as messiah. Which other religion teaches their followers to accept Jesus as messiah?

• Jesus teaches non-violence, turn the other cheek. Islam teaches jihad.

Yet Christians believe that Jesus returns to kill millions of people?

• Jesus teaches to bless those who curse you. Islam teaches to execute blasphemers.

Yet Christians believe that Jesus will toss unbelievers in hell for eternity?

• Jesus teaches forgiveness. Islam teaches corporal punishemnt, execution, revenge killing, and blood money.

Do Christians believe that Jesus will forgive unbelievers at judgement? Or will he send them to an eternal hell.

• Jesus taught, "he who is free of sin, let him cast the first stone." Islam teaches to stone.

Islamic stoning is not very different from stoning in the Old Testament law. Why the double standard?

• Jesus teaches to love others as yourself. Islam teaches to love your Muslim brother.

Jesus also said he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. He also likened a Canaanite woman and initially refused to help her.

• Jesus says the master is not above the servant. Islam says you may keep slaves, and rape your female slaves.

Wrong. Jesus said 'No servant is greater than his master."

• Jesus says to love your enemies. Islam says to wage jihad against enemies, and execute apostates and non-believers.

Is Jesus returning to love his enemies... the anti-christ and the forces of Gog and Magog? Or is he going to wage a "holy war" against them?

• Jesus said, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." Islam says to pay the jizyah tribute tax.

Read the verse before Jesus says that and understand the context. That was not some noble command... it was a clever comeback against people who were trying to corner him.

18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.”

• Jesus heals the sick and raises the dead. Islam inflicts corporal punishment, amputation of limbs, and execution.

The islamic corporal punishment is not very different from Old Testament corporal punishment. Again, why this double standard?

reply to post by Sahabi

I am only going by the words and actions attributed to Jesus during his life, and not some prophesies of Apostle Paul or John. Jesus in his actual life DID teach to turn the other cheek.

If we are going to discuss the character of Jesus, its important that we go by the 2 sources on Jesus. i.e - the Bible and the Koran.

Since the bible is the primary source on Jesus, we need to consider everything it says about Jesus.... even the violent parts.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n




Your rebuttal was regarding the Book of Revelations. Apostle John wrote it, not Jesus. It was John who foretold the battle of Armageddon, not Jesus.

Nor am I talking about the implementation of genocide, war, or punishments of Mosaic Law.

I am discussing the words and actions attributed to Jesus DURING HIS LIFE... not the prophecies or testimonies of the Apostles, and not the violence of the "Old Testament."

What is attributed to Jesus?; The Gospels. Which Gospels? All of them... the canonical gospels, gnostic gospels, and apocryphal gospels. These are the teachings attributed to Jesus.

reply to post by Josephus

Two followers of John the Baptist witness the baptisim of Jesus in which John testfies that Jesus is one who comes to baptise with the holy spirit. The next day they see Jesus again and begin to follow him Jesus notices them and the two men (usually considered to be the Apostles John and Andrew)

Simon Peter and Andrew, brothers. Both Simon and Andrew were John the Baptist's disciples originally until they learned that Yeshua was the real Messiah.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Entire Qur'an vs Bible vs Gospels

Do I have to include all of the Bible when debating about Jesus, or debating against Islam?
- No.

Do Muslims have to include the entire Qur'an when debating their religion?
- Yes.



The entire Qur'an was dictated by one man, i.e., Muhammad. Therefore, the Qur'an is one book.

Each book of the Bible was revealed by different authors at different times. The Bible is a compilation of different books.

-- What Bible are you talking about anyway? Do you know that Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, Mormon, and Gnostic Christians all have different books in their Bibles? Smaller sects of Christians and Jews also follow different books. So which Bible are you talking about?

Since the Gospels are about the actual life of Jesus, I am only talking about Gospels.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Jesus' Teachings Are Found In The Various Injeels


• If you talk about the Old Testament, you are talking about the teachings of the patriarchs.

• If you talk about the Gospels, you are talking about the actual life of Jesus.

• If you talk about the books of the New Testament other than the Gospels, you are talking about the testimonies and prophecies of the Apostles.


Even in Islam it teaches that the Injeel is attributed as the teachings of Isa.

So if your Qur'an says "Injeel," why are you bringing up the letters of the Apostles or the teachings of ancient Hebrew Patriarchs?

Jesus was the first and only prophet descended from Abraham that espoused non-violence, compassion, and forgiveness.

As I am now repeating myself; The teachings of Jesus in the Injeel/Gospel do not exist in Islam!

If Islam does not espouse the non-violent, forgiveness, and compassion of Jesus as found in the various Injeel/Gospels, then; Islam brings people to Muhammad and Allah.. and brings peopl away from the teachings of Jesus.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

My point was that through Islam 1.5 billion people have accepted Jesus as messiah. Which other religion teaches their followers to accept Jesus as messiah?

As I keep repeating: Islam honors Jesus by name and biography only, but it does not honor his moral teachings.

So... even though Jesus' moral teachings are in direct opposition to hadud and shariah, Islam brings people to Jesus?

Jesus does not care who honors him by name:

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

- Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 7:21-23

Assalaamu alaikum.

reply to post by Sahabi

I am discussing the words and actions attributed to Jesus DURING HIS LIFE... not the prophecies or testimonies of the Apostles, and not the violence of the "Old Testament."

Those prophecies are all about Jesus.

Most christians understand that Jesus would return to slay millions of non-christians. Which is not only brutal, but also far from the character of the "turn-the-other-cheek" Jesus you are trying to portray.

Either Jesus was indeed peaceful OR the character who would genocide millions of non-Christians is NOT Jesus. It cant be both.

reply to post by Sahabi

Jesus does not care who honors him by name:

That particular verse can only apply to Christians.... as they are the ones most likely to prophesy, drive out demons, perform many miracles in Jesus' name.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


The uncompromising compassion, forgiveness, and love found throughout all of the Canonical, Gnostic, and Apocryphal Gospels/Injeels is not mentioned in Islam.

You rely on letters of the Apostels and teachings of the Patriarchs to support your argument instead of relying on the actual life, words, and actions of Jesus?

Where are Jesus' teachings found in Islam that I mentioned above?




Which prophecies are you talking about? The ones found in:

• Jewish Canon?
• Jewish Apocryphal?
• Roman Catholic Bible?
• Eastern Orthodox Bible?
• Russian Orthodox Bible?
• Ethiopian Orthodox?
• Syriac Orthodox?
• Protestant Bible?
• Gnostic Canon?
• Apocryphal Canon?


P.S.
Additionally, some Islamic scholars use Patriarchal prophesies to foretell Muhammad's coming.

Prophecy is a matter of interpretation according to which church you are regarding.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Most christians understand that Jesus would return to slay millions of non-christians. Which is not only brutal, but also far from the character of the "turn-the-other-cheek" Jesus you are trying to portray.

Apostle John said this in the Book of Revelations. Not Jesus.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

That particular verse can only apply to Christians.... as they are the ones most likely to prophesy, drive out demons, perform many miracles in Jesus' name.

What Christians? Jesus spoke to no Christians, he spoke to Jews and Gentiles. Christianity was not established until after the death of Jesus.

(Hadith vs Modern Biographies) vs (Gospels/Injeels vs Books of Others)

Do Muslims follow the sunnah and ahadith of Muhammad? Doesn't authentic hadith best represent Muhammad the person, because it depicts his words and actions in life?

With the same reasoning, the Gospels/Injeels best represent Jesus the person, because they depict his words and actions in life.


But instead you want to debate me using letters of the Apostles and books of the Patriarchs? Should I debate Muhammad's life using a modern biography to supersede authentic hadith? This is what you are doing in regards to debating Jesus.

And why can you not return my salaam? Is not mankind one ummah? Am I not a son of Adam?

Assalaaum alaikum.

reply to post by NullVoid

Sahabi: Please reconsider your act leaving Islam. you should know already, the price you have to pay denouncing Islam.

Yes, my price for leaving Islam and exposing it's blood-thirsty tyranny causes fitnah, which makes me worthy of the death penalty.

Religion of Peace.... but execute Sahabi because he left Islam and talks about it?

One good thing about my past beliefs in Islam is that it taught me to not fear death. Any Muslims wanting to kill me will be met with the determination and courage I learned from Islam. I fear no man.

Assalaamu alaikum, rah'matulahi wa barakatu.

reply to post by Sahabi

What Christians? Jesus spoke to no Christians, he spoke to Jews and Gentiles. Christianity was not established until after the death of Jesus.

How clever.

Let me rephrase it.... that verse applies to people who as prophesy, drive out demons, perform many miracles in Jesus' name.

Do muslims prophesy, drive out demons, perform many miracles in Jesus' name? I don't think so.

reply to post by Sahabi

Apostle John said this in the Book of Revelations. Not Jesus.

So then, you dont believe Jesus will return to slay the non-believers?