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Islam brings people to Jesus...

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posted on May, 8 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Sahabi
 




Jesus does not care who honors him by name:


That particular verse can only apply to Christians.... as they are the ones most likely to prophesy, drive out demons, perform many miracles in Jesus' name.


Wrong. Your antichristian bias is talking here. You think you know the Word but you really don't. The particular verses you are quoting is refering to false disciples and false prophets, which can be anyone who claims to obey Yeshua but does not keep his commandments, which is in it's entirety, the whole of Islam and some christians and ofcourse secular folks who also do not keep his commandments.

For instance, Muhammad is a false prophet, because he did not obey Christ's commandments but went on a murder spree, raping and pillaging (stealing). Now when you read the Gospels did you ever see Christ's advocate such a blatant violation of his laws? Islam allows the taking of another man's wife for booty and her marriage is annulled under islam and they may rape her or take her as their own wife (When did Yeshua ever say to do this?)

You follow a false prophet who is a murderer, liar, thief, adulterer and rapist.
edit on 8-5-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 8 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Sahabi
 




Apostle John said this in the Book of Revelations. Not Jesus.

So then, you dont believe Jesus will return to slay the non-believers?


I believe that Muslim's Imam Mahdi will be the one to slaughter non-believers. Muhammad and Allah say this.

Who says Jesus will be a slaughterer? John the Apostle.


edit on 5/8/12 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 10:52 AM
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"Hey guys, Islam brings people closer to Jesus."

- "Oh yeah? What's it say about him?"

"Well, it talks about his miraculous virgin birth, he was wise even as an infant, it says he did not get crucified, it says he was not the son of God, and that one day Jesus will come back and break the cross."

- "Wow. What are some of Jesus' teachings?"

"Ummm... well.... Islam doesn't have any of Jesus' teachings about love, forgiveness, or compassion."

- "So how does Islam bring people to Jesus?"




posted on May, 8 2012 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Except Mohammad did not campaign for land or for race... like Genghis and Hitler respectively.

Mohammad slaughtered those who got in his way. And he stole from those who had more than him.
Sahabi is correct ... Mohammad is another Genghis ... not another Jesus.

Jesus said - forgive your enemies, turn the other cheek.
Mohammad said - kill them.

Jesus said - give unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar and to God that which belongs to God.
Mohammad said - go raid that caravan and steal everything.

BIG DIFFERENCE. Islam does NOT bring people to Jesus. Not even close.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by Sahabi

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Sahabi
 




Apostle John said this in the Book of Revelations. Not Jesus.

So then, you dont believe Jesus will return to slay the non-believers?


I believe Imam Mahdi will be the one to slaughter non-believers. Muhammad and Allah say this.

Who says Jesus will be a slaughterer? John the Apostle.


The book of Revelation is tricky, because it's an amalgamation of prophecies from Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Amos, Ruth, Zechariah and others. This is how God sees things. We only get glimpses of the puzzle pieces when he is looking at the entire picture and he had to spoonfeed prophets those prophecies in increments because hearing him speak was so painful they begged him to stop talking and hearing him would make their ears bleed.

He sees the entire picture and that picture begins to come to light in Revelation. What the prophecies in the OT and NT are bearing witness of, is Yeshua ha'Meshiach being the Creator. He repays according to what we have done and Revelation pulls that from Isaiah 59.

This is called "reaping what you sew", other cultures may call it karma and this is verified when Christ said "if you live by the sword you shall die by the sword", you reap what you sew.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


You see sk0rpi0n, I am not against you. I love Muslims, but I dislike Islam. Do you see the difference? I mean absolutely no ill-will towards you.

Similarly, I don't follow any religion, but I deeply respect Jesus as a wise man and philosopher. I call him brother as I call you brother. His words carry such a deep philosophical resonance. Love, compassion, forgiveness.

Islam only offers such spiritual fruit under certain conditions, terms, and restrictions.

Islam is not reflective of the philosophical concepts attributed to Jesus in the various Gospels.

Peace.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by NullVoid
 



Sahabi: Please reconsider your act leaving Islam. you should know already, the price you have to pay denouncing Islam.


Yes, my price for leaving Islam and exposing it's blood-thirsty tyranny causes fitnah, which makes me worthy of the death penalty.

Religion of Peace.... but execute Sahabi because he left Islam and talks about it?


One good thing about my past beliefs in Islam is that it taught me to not fear death. Any Muslims wanting to kill me will be met with the determination and courage I learned from Islam. I fear no man.

Assalaamu alaikum, rah'matulahi wa barakatu.


Salam,

I'm sorry for what I have write or said about you, I beg your forgiveness. I was because of your wording perhaps that made me jolted. Again, I'm sorry and take back my words. I do agree, Syariah is hard to Muslims and I believe there are reasons to it. I do not agree Islam spread by swords during Mohammad, but it truly does in the later stage. Enought about that anyway.

Religion of Peace --- Wasnt it suppose to be this way -- Islam is way of life ? I never knew where and how "everyone" got this "religion of peace" thingy, Its always "way of life" that I'm aware of.


Good for you not to fear death and nobody. Overall, I think you are better in understanding Islam than me, just curious, why leave ? I believe all religion promise hell or forever reincarnate etc etc if turning away from the religion.

----------------------------------------------------
On topic, Islam bring closer to Jesus .... I dont think so, we do expect him to return, but never closer to him or his teaching (basically its just the same), just closer to god.

He is just a messenger just like 24 other prophets, its just he was chosen to help Mahdi, and thats it. If god says its Moses who shall return, still the same to us - prophets return to help.

The problem with Christians is to acknowledge Jesus will return in future to destroy non believers. It contradict with the "lovey-dovey" belief.
The problem with religion is - destruction of non-believers/turned away. It makes the religion sound "evil".



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by Sahabi
 



"Hey guys, Islam brings people closer to Jesus."

- "Oh yeah? What's it say about him?"

"Well, it talks about his miraculous virgin birth, he was wise even as an infant, it says he did not get crucified, it says he was not the son of God, and that one day Jesus will come back and break the cross."

- "Wow. What are some of Jesus' teachings?"

"Ummm... well.... Islam doesn't have any of Jesus' teachings about love, forgiveness, or compassion."

- "So how does Islam bring people to Jesus?"


Like I said earlier, 1.5 billion muslims accepted Jesus as messiah through Islam. What is your problem with that?

Do you have a problem with Islam teaching its followers that Jesus is the messiah?

edit on 8-5-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by Sahabi
 



Who says Jesus will be a slaughterer? John the Apostle.


John and 2 billion christians. Even, if you disregard prophecy...are you speaking on behalf of 2 billion humans who believe Jesus will return to slaughter the unbelievers???



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



Like I said earlier, 1.5 billion muslims accepted Jesus as messiah through Islam. What is your problem with that?

Do you have a problem with Islam teaching its followers that Jesus is the messiah?


I have no problem with what others believe. If people feel they need a prophet, an Imam, a Calipha, a Messiah, or a Savior... then so be it. I believe the Kingdom of God is within.

But how can you say that Islam honors Jesus as Messiah, when it does not contain any moral teachings of Jesus? Moreover, the moral teachings of Jesus are in direct opposition to hadud, shariah, and Qur'an.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



John and 2 billion christians. Even, if you disregard prophecy...are you speaking on behalf of 2 billion humans who believe Jesus will return to slaughter the unbelievers???


Please do not talk like the Christians are a united belief system. Which Christians are you even talking about?

• Some believe Jesus is Son of God.
• Some Christians believe that Jesus is God in the Flesh.
• Some Christians believe God is a Trinity composed of The Father, Son Jesus, and Holy Ghost.
• Some Christians believe Jesus was a mortal prophet.
• Some Christians believe Jesus was an enlightened sage.

And the major denominations of Christianity read from different Bibles and different books.

As I said, in the Gospels Jesus (alayhi salaam) did not speak of slaughter. He spoke of non-violence. It is the Apostle John who foretold Armegeddon.


P.S.
It is not relevant to tell me what other people believe. I am talking about the words of the Gospel texts, not the beliefs of Christians. Some Christians changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Some Christians put up Christmas trees and eat pork although Deuteronomy says not to.

If we are discussing Jesus, we should stick to the various Gospels that depict the life, words, and actions of Jesus. NOT the old patriarchs, or apostles, or modern Christians.


edit on 5/8/12 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


• Why do the Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox Christians only follow the canonical Gospels and not the other Gospels? Because they say the Gnostic and Apocryphal texts are not ordained.

• Why do the Muslims only follow the Qur'an and not the Torah, Talmud, or Gospels? Because they say the writings of the Jews and Christians are corrupt.


Although some say they are corrupt, and although they differ on certain narrative points, the Biblical Canonical Gospels... the Apocryphal Gospels... and the Gnostic Gospels... all contain the same fundamental moral teachings of Jesus: Love, Compassion, and Forgiveness.

If we can say Islam propagates Love, Compassion, and Forgiveness above all else, then we can say that Islam brings people to Jesus, because these were his main teachings.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by NullVoid
 


Peace be upon you my brother.

When I left Islam, some of my closest Muslim friends said, "you are lucky we're in America." They meant this to mean that they agree to execute me for disbelief. I asked other friends if they thought I was worthy of death. They told me that I was a good person and they love me like a brother, but they must obey what Allah says about apostates.... Some refused to speak to me at all. And only ONE brother out of our entire ummah said he loves me no matter what I believe.

It really hurts when the community you love, helped, and socialized with now agrees to a death penalty verdict simply because I don't believe in Islam. I am now hardened to such opinions and threats.

Why did I leave the religion you ask? Because I believe in having Love, Compassion, and Forgiveness to all life, even though they may disagree with me or even hate me. I do not agree with slavery, raping female slaves, hitting my wife, or executing homosexuals. I do not believe the word of two women equals the word of one man. I do not agree with sacrificing any innocent animals during Hajj or Umrah. I believe in PEACE above any jihad. ALL humans are my family... not only those who believe or think like me.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


my question is... If Islam brings people to Jesus... does that mean it forces them to read the bible as well?

I've noticed that none of HIS teachings are in the Quran... they only mention him as a great man and a prophet...

I only know this because i had a conversation here with a muslim... i asked him to show me where it mentions Jesus in his book... He showed me places he is mentioned... but none of his references showed any of his lessons... So i had to find out for myself... i found a site that uses a word search on the Quran, so i searched Jesus... And to my supprize, NONE of his lessons are in the Quran...

So the question remains... IF Islam brings people to Jesus... does that mean it forces them to read the bible...

IF that isn't the case... i don't see how this religion can bring people to Jesus...




posted on May, 8 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Good luck! I've been debating op for a few pages now on this exact point.

Basically, he thinks if you call Jesus the Messiah, you can ignore all of his teachings and this is bringing people to Jesus through Islam.

I supplied op with direct teachings of Jesus during his life in the various Gospels, but op ignores them and rebuts with Mosaic Punishments, Joshua's conquest of the 'Promised Land,' and John's Book of Revelations. He just keeps ignoring the specific teachings attributed to Jesus during his life.

Peace.


edit on 5/8/12 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by Sahabi
 


I was actually avoiding this thread because i don't know much about Islam... then i remembered my conversation with said muslim...

I remember asking him over and over about which lessons are in the Quran... all i got was references to his name... So basically i got the impression that this particular muslim believed in the name of Jesus yet knew nothng about him or what he taught, aside from a few references to him...

They say its a religion of Peace... who am i to argue about a book i don't know anything about?

Though i do know one thing... as far as i've read, none of the Abrahamic religions have been about peace in the past... And even in the present in some cases...

So i have my doubts about the peacefulness of Islam, considering what the other two offer...




posted on May, 8 2012 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


That was a very good observation you made in that short time, because you are totally right;

Islam only gives a brief biography of Jesus. It does acknowledge him in title and name, but not one place does the Qur'an offer any of Jesus' teachings of love, compassion, and forgiveness.

OP can only rebut these following facts with the words of Apostles or Patriarchs, and not with the words of Jesus:


• Jesus teaches non-violence, turn the other cheek. Islam teaches jihad.

• Jesus teaches to bless those who curse you. Islam teaches to execute blasphemers.

• Jesus teaches forgiveness. Islam teaches corporal punishemnt, execution, revenge killing, and blood money.

• Jesus taught, "he who is free of sin, let him cast the first stone." Islam teaches to stone.

• Jesus teaches to love others as yourself. Islam teaches to love your Muslim brother.

• Jesus washed the feet of his disciples and continuously calls for compassion. Islam says you may keep slaves, and rape your female slaves.

• Jesus says to love your enemies. Islam says to wage jihad against enemies, and execute apostates and non-believers.

• Jesus said, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." Islam says to pay the jizyah tribute tax.

• Jesus heals the sick and raises the dead. Islam inflicts corporal punishment, amputation of limbs, and execution.


edit on 5/8/12 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


interesting ill have to look into the koran never read anything from it before.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 03:53 PM
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I'm not sure if this will shed some light into whether or not Allah has sent down a book to his believers regarding Jesus' teachings, but one of the six articles of Faith that a true Muslims must abide by is belief in the holy books of Allah. If not, they are not Muslim. Keep that in mind.


The true Muslim believes, as a result of article two, in all the scriptures and revelations of God. They were the guiding light which the messengers received to show their respective peoples the Right Path of God. In the Qur’an a special reference is made to the books of Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus. But long before the revelation of the Qur’an to Muhammad some of those books and revelations had been lost or corrupted, others forgotten, neglected, or concealed. The only authentic and complete book of God in existence today is the Qur’an. In principle, the Muslim believes in the previous books and revelations.

Muslims must believe in all Revelations sent by God to His Prophets, that are: the Torah to Moses (A.S), the Scrolls of Abraham (A.S), the Gospel to Jesus (A.S), the Psalms of David (A.S) and the Qur'an to Muhammad (S.A.W).


So, in essence, what the Gospels say about Jesus and his teachings should be believed by a Muslim, taking into account its possible corruption. So what I should be saying is, for a Muslim, they should believe in the love and compassion that Jesus taught if it doesn't contradict with what it says about him in the Quran, in it being his divinity and the like.

Hope that helped.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by XxForgottenLegendxX
 



So, in essence, what the Gospels say about Jesus and his teachings should be believed by a Muslim, taking into account its possible corruption. So what I should be saying is, for a Muslim, they should believe in the love and compassion that Jesus taught if it doesn't contradict with what it says about him in the Quran, in it being his divinity and the like.


This is the issue... it doesn't say anything about him in the Quran... it says he was a holy man, a prophet... a wise man... thats about it..

So basically...

a muslim should assume "whatever" it says about Jesus in the bible is true... without reading it for themselves...

That actually sounds very christian...

Edit: sorry i missed the "off site content"...

You're saying muslims are supposed to read both the Quran and the bible?


edit on 8-5-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



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