Islam brings people to Jesus...

reply to post by Akragon


Well, from a Muslim perspective, it's recommended they read all of the books that were sent down by Allah. What they should keep in the back of their mind is the possibility of the previous books being severely corrupted and distorted. From a knowledge standpoint, I'd say to go for it and broaden their knowledge on what the previous scriptures say about the prophets and about God.

reply to post by XxForgottenLegendxX


This may be true, however, Muslims must only believe and follow from other religious texts what they can substantiate and back-up with the Qur'an. Because Allah says the Qur'an supersedes all holy books.

How can this be done with the teachings of Jesus, when it is obviously evident that the moral teachings of Jesus found in the various Gospels are in opposition to the hadud, shariah, and Qur'an of Islam?

Assalaamu alaikum.

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by NullVoid

 

Peace be upon you my brother.

Why did I leave the religion you ask? Because I believe in having Love, Compassion, and Forgiveness to all life, even though they may disagree with me or even hate me. I do not agree with slavery, raping female slaves, hitting my wife, or executing homosexuals. I do not believe the word of two women equals the word of one man. I do not agree with sacrificing any innocent animals during Hajj or Umrah. I believe in PEACE above any jihad. ALL humans are my family... not only those who believe or think like me.

Salam,

You DO have points there except the innocent animals during Hajj (I'm pretty much OK there though I dont eat meat). Anyway, the words is in the book an the book is from god, like it or not, Muslims have to accept it. But things were that way / was ordered with causes, on first glance its quite harsh, but close inspection I found its more of prevention measures.Slavery is one of I disagree, but reason its there because of the "other kind", raping human slave for me is not agreeable and should be remove already, have to check the book later.

Current implementation rarely perform the pure Syariah/Hudud save the marital law and will. Slaves these days belong to the mafia/gang group, even their religion prohibit it, still they do it, its more of human choice.
I believe slavery is not practiced anymore in Muslims except "the Jin". Having an option does not mean you should choose it. Having the right does not mean you should use it.

Honestly, Before this I'm pretty much like you, there are parts that sounds so archaic and pretty harsh, I look for acceptable choices, problem is - I do not find any that better, closest is Jews and membership is closed.

People are more tolerant and adapting to current human progress, dumping the religion because of some unpracticed stuff is pretty drastic. You losing your chance to enter heaven.

Love, compassion etc in Christian teaching is fine and OK, but you should already know the stuff about the Trinity thingy plus "too many cook spoil the broth", if that problem removed then its pretty much ok.

My advice is this - instead of denouncing, why not, accept it all but perform only the compulsory part ? Most muslims aware of the matter but striving to be in God law is much more important than scrutinizing it. Redha, ikhlas and moderate means so much more than inspecting the tiny details/extreme.

Which is better ?
PEACE - Relation with Humans
JIHAD - Relations with God

Jesus, may peace be upon him (alayhi salaam), was a different caliber of a man than any other man of the seed of Abraham.

- The old Patriarchs and old Prophets may have said or done such-and-such.
- The Apostles and Disciples of Jesus may have said or done such-and-such.
- Muhammad, Allah, and the Qur'an may have said and done such-and-such.

But Jesus, during his life, preached non-violence. He rebuked his disciple for raising a sword in his defense. He taught people to forgive one another, not to judge one another, to help one another, and to love others as one's own self.

Jesus taught that the Kingdom of God is within. What is within? Our hearts! What is synonymous with the heart? Love, compassion, empathy, and forgiveness

Jesus taught that no amount of prayers, or fasting, or invoking the name of anyone will achieve Paradise. It is by Love that one earns this.

Love I say? Didn't Jesus say the greatest commandment was to love God, and the second was to love your neighbor? Don't all humans live together on Earth, so aren't we all neighbors?

How can Islam ever bring people to Jesus when Islam does not mention such beautiful concepts without restrictions or limitations?

Originally posted by rasta420
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

interesting ill have to look into the koran never read anything from it before.

Don't bother, i've read it and it's garbage. You'd be better off reading the ancient sanskrit hindu texts and come away less mentally scarred for it.

reply to post by NullVoid


May Peace be upon you NullVoid. You are the first Muslim that has read my posts and still responds respectfully. May Allah reward you for your kindness

Many people of every religion already do what you say; follow some parts and ignore some parts. Allow me to quote a translation of the Qur'an:

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."

- Al-Qur'an, Suratul Mā'idah, Chapter 5, Verse 3

Allah declares that Islam is complete and perfect. Therefore, it must be accepted in full. If I disagree with many points of the Qur'an, this is saying that Islam is not perfect or complete for me. For me to go on as a Muslim would be hypocrisy.

Akhi (brother), I have a personal relationship with God. If I am judged as unworthy, then so be it. I am only following my heart. God: My Gnosis

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Wrong. Your antichristian bias is talking here. You think you know the Word but you really don't. The particular verses you are quoting is refering to false disciples and false prophets, which can be anyone who claims to obey Yeshua but does not keep his commandments, which is in it's entirety, the whole of Islam and some christians and ofcourse secular folks who also do not keep his commandments.

Read that verse again...
it says "prophesy, drive out demons, perform many miracles in Jesus' name."
Only Christians use Jesus' name.... not the muslims or secular folks.
Jesus was not addressing other religions or people.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Now when you read the Gospels did you ever see Christ's advocate such a blatant violation of his laws? Islam allows the taking of another man's wife for booty and her marriage is annulled under islam and they may rape her or take her as their own wife (When did Yeshua ever say to do this?)

When did Yeshua ever say to do this?

You believe Jesus is YHWH, the God of the Old Testament, don't you?


Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
-Numbers 31:17

I don't see anything about turning the other cheek or loving thy enemy in there, do you?

People living in glass houses really shouldn't be throwing stones at others.

reply to post by Sahabi

How can Islam ever bring people to Jesus when Islam does not mention such beautiful concepts without restrictions or limitations?

If we can say Islam propagates Love, Compassion, and Forgiveness above all else, then we can say that Islam brings people to Jesus, because these were his main teachings.

You speak as if the Koran is devoid of teachings about mercy and compassion....well, I'm not sure how to convince someone who insists Islam is an oppressive ruthless religion.

I guess its all a matter of perception. I was once someone who hated muslims, and even ran an anti-muslim website.... until I read the Koran and discovered for myself that its is NOT the oppressive religion as its stereotyped.

reply to post by Akragon

So the question remains... IF Islam brings people to Jesus... does that mean it forces them to read the bible...

IF that isn't the case... i don't see how this religion can bring people to Jesus...

I say Islam brings people to Jesus in the sense that muslims are required to believe in Jesus messiahship, which was his role among humans.
There is NO way a muslim can claim to be one, if he denies Jesus as messiah.

You see, Christians seem to make a big deal about accepting Jesus and all that... and yet when Islam teaches that Jesus as messiah, it doesn't seem to matter to them. Christians undermine the importance of Jesus messiahship... only when another religion states it.

Just imagine if Islam taught that "Jesus is not the messiah" or named somebody else as the messiah.... Christians would have really liked that, I guess. They could always use another reason to demonize Islam.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


What is the point of the Quran then?

IF it tells people to come to Jesus... wouldn't it just be easier to stick with the original?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


My friend, the compassion, mercy, and brotherhood mentioned in the Qur'an is exclusive amongst believers. These same principles do not extend to apostates, kafiroon, Jews, or Christians.

"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." [Qur'an 5:51]

"O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people...." [Qur'an 3:118]

"For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies." [Qur'an 4:101]

Can we be truthful? Islam's philosophy is, "You're either with us or against us."

reply to post by Sahabi

Can we be truthful? Islam's philosophy is, "You're either with us or against us."

Your perception of Islams philosophy is not the objective truth.

"you're either with us or against us" can also apply to Christianity as well.

Do you really think Christianity genuinely tolerates other belief systems? Would Christians truly take atheists who mock their religion as "friends"?

What about Jesus... Why did he liken the Canaanite woman to a dog? Why did he instruct his disciples to skip the gentile towns, but go only to the Israelites? Doesn't sound like he was interested in people other than his own.

Some really interesting posts so far, especially from the Muslim posters and Sahabi, who’s passion I can literally feel coming through every post he writes.


Just for the record, I should state that I’m not a Muslim, just in case anyone was confused by my previous posts, and I’m not a Jew, and to a large extent, I don’t even classify myself as a Christian, mainly because I don’t accept many aspects of RCC doctrines, most of which, I feel became corrupted by men…Hard to some up all my beliefs in one go, so to keep it simple, “I believe in Jesus, and his message.”


I’m not much of an expert on Islam, but recently I’ve been trying to learn more about the religion. And this may seem strange, but based on the limited amount of verses I’ve read in the Quran so far, I actually believe, that Mohammed, is a prophet from God, just like the prophets in the OT.


Anyway, I got to thinking last night, that Islam should lead people to Jesus. The reason I say this, is because Islam, recognizes, all of the prophets in the OT, as legitimate. And we know that some of the prophets in OT, point directly to Jesus. And these prophets mention many more aspects about Jesus, other than just being the Messiah…


So if Islam acknowledges the Prophets in the OT, and then investigates everything that is prophesied about the Messiah, then this should, in all likelihood, lead them to Jesus. In fact, even the things mentioned in the Quran alone, about Jesus, should make Muslims question who Jesus is, and why he is so unique, when compared to other prophets…


So Yeah… Islam should, in a perfect world, lead to Jesus…


- JC

Originally posted by MagnumOpus
Christians promote Jesus as god. Bad thinking that disrupts the unity of the world.

Why is this bad thinking that disrupts the world...

Muhammad is considered the last Prophet of god.

.... and this is not?


Eric

Salam to all,

Originally posted by Joecroft

So Yeah… Islam should, in a perfect world, lead to Jesus…

Its much more like this - "closer to god". Since the Messiah is supposed to be Jesus, then closer to him as Messiah - yes, closer to his teachings ..plausible close to no, closer to current practiced Christian teaching - No.
Muslim differentiate prophet relaying god words - the book, prophet saying - hadith, prophets doing - sunnah.

Muslims believe Jesus teaching was skewed, his saying - 100% cleared but misinterpreted, his doing - 100% passed. Just look at how many gospel you have. I hit a wall to even understand what its all about, and they keep finding new ones .

Muslims view Moses teachings as close to 100%, parts maybe lost in history, his doing not 100% passed, his saying not 100% passed, still, the teaching much much better shape than Christians.

It does "ping", why Jesus is special in Islam ? Why not Moses/Abraham/etc as the Messiah...yes it does makes me wonder.

To Sahabi, if true universal religion is what you sought after, I believe Bahai got some offering on the subject. I might get scorned for this but it seems that more fitting to you I guess. For me, it is already complete, as said.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


My friend... my brother...

I am not here to defend nor represent the Bible or Christianity. Saying things like, "but the Jews do/say/believe so-and-so.... the Christians do/say/believe such-and-such", this is not a valid argument. Why don't you stick to what we are discussing instead of ignoring points and bringing up third-party argumentation?

Doesn't sound like he was interested in people other than his own.

As I mentioned earlier, because I acknowledge that all holy books were penned by the hand of Man, I read them with an open mind. I look for truth, wisdom, and commonalities.

Let me assure you friend, racism or religious superiority is not a strongly re-occurring theme espoused by Jesus throughout the collective canonical, gnostic, and apocryphal gospels.

Why did he liken the Canaanite woman to a dog?

This story is not mentioned in all of the various Gospels. It is only mentioned in Matthew and Mark. Regardless of the narrative, Jesus does help the Canaanite woman's daughter. Jesus even healed the servant boy of a Roman Centurion in Matthew and Luke.

Why did he instruct his disciples to skip the gentile towns, but go only to the Israelites?

Would you send newly taught students to far away lands for their first assignments? Jesus knew his disciples were undisciplined to the point he foretold that one disciple would deny him, and another disciple would betray him.


The Canaanite story is not common to all the various Gospels, but what is common throughout all of the Gospels is forgiveness, compassion, love, and the concept of "treat/love others as self".

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


You say Islam brings people to Jesus.

I say Islam honors the name of Jesus, acknowledges him as Messiah, and gives a few brief biographical points.

-- However, every moral teaching of Jesus that is common amongst the various Gospels is not mentioned in Islam.

-- Additionally, the common moral teachings of Jesus are a blasphemy and direct opposition to Islam.

-- Moreover, in opposition to Christian belief (not my own), Islam denies the crucifixion of Jesus, and denies Jesus as the of Son of God.

You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

“‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules. ’

- Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 15:7-9

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

- Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 7:21-23

Jesus is not calling for his name or title to be acknowledged. He is not calling for mention of biographical points.
Jesus is calling people to love, forgiveness, and compassion.


I fear that this discussion will only continue to repeat itself over and over, therefore I shall leave you with this:

"I worship not that which you worship, nor will you worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which you have been accustomed to worship, nor will you worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine."

- Qur'an, Suratul Kafiroon, Chapter 109:2-6

Assalaamu alaikum akhi.

reply to post by Sahabi


I think to be fair you have to say things about islam in salafi teaching, as you know there are many sectarian in islam, just like in christian. And when you quote a Quran, to be fair if you think you understand it completely, you should put the asbabun nuzul of an ayat to put into context or better if you explain the safiah and alfiah from it so there is no missunderstanding.

PS: You might want to search the asbabun juzul of death for apostle in Muhamad era, it might be interesting to learn the truth about it.

Peace

reply to post by Sahabi

Let me assure you friend, racism or religious superiority is not a strongly re-occurring theme espoused by Jesus throughout the collective canonical, gnostic, and apocryphal gospels.

Luke 9: 51-56

51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up, that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem, 52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him. 53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”

55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.” And they went to another village.

Samaritans were worse than scum to a jew in those days. Yeshua was the exception to the rule. In those times it was unlawful for a samaritan or non jew to approach a jew and initate dialogue and a jew would not allow the shadow of a samaritan to fall on them (except the romans, they just didn't care and didn't fear jews). This goes back to when the "10 lost tribes" split away from Judah and Benjamin because of the curse God punished Solomon with because Solomon built idols to Molech and Ba'al for his pagan wives and succumbed to using sorcery to command demons to do his bidding with a magic ring instead of calling on the sacred name of God.