The Crucifixion: A Medical Perspective

Originally posted by the2ofusr1
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

You seem to be thinking that Jesus's resurrected body was like our standard bodies ...When THE Resurrection happens in the future all the bodies both living and the ones in the grave will be changed ..in a moment in the twinkling of a eye ...The redeemed get a new incorruptible body ..How have you missed this in your reading of the scriptures ? Jesus was the first born from the dead ...

Jesus body was a normal body just like most peoples.

This is also misreading of the narrative. Jesus considers all those that don't have religion correct to be dead of mind. So, this bit is written about people's minds waking up, the rapture process, where they begin to think with the fuller truths as they discover The Way. It is like the reborn ritual game to change from the old thinking and into the more pious and correct thinking.

Nobody actually dead is going to suddenly come back to life. To suggest that is not rational thought process and called delusional. Organized Christianty conditions people to disregard reality to make miracles, and that process is about irrational and delusional thinking.

There is a lot of allegorical methods that have too many people get into irrational thoughts with taking those allegorical speaking times as literal.


One of the problems with the Christian beliefs is they promote delusional thinking, which harms America and promotes a huge level of ignorance. imho


Your associations are a prime example of this inabilty to read the narratices in the correct sense and come up with a rather simple and rational understanding for what was being said.

This isn't the Michael Jackson Thriller fantasy land of Halloween, as Jesus speak was about those being dead of mind for the understanding of the Way.

Those that suggest the actual dead can be brought to life are considered Satanic.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


You're full of it,

Again,

No one has ever recovered from brain death?

I beg to differ.

And there are case studies and examples of people recovering from brain death in OUR TIME,

I'm sure if laymen can do it nowadays, that Jesus Christ, Son of the Most High God YHWH, could do it.

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

You're full of it,

Again,

No one has ever recovered from brain death?

I beg to differ.

And there are case studies and examples of people recovering from brain death in OUR TIME,

I'm sure if laymen can do it nowadays, that Jesus Christ, Son of the Most High God YHWH, could do it.

edit on 5/2/2012 by Iason321 because: (no reason given)

Go to the medical journals and dig the cases out and list them. Show any sources for errors, as in misdiagnosos or equipment errors. Show everyone what supports your claim by stating your sources.

There are occasional "vegetables" out there with marginal brain function with life support to keep the person's heart and lungs working for a time, but they generally give up after so long, with no improvements. Don't think that applies to the Jesus theme. It was stated he was well diagnosed as totally Brain Dead.

Otherwise be known is a functional illiterate of medical science, one that promotes irrational thinking, and the making of fantasy to promote telling lies. imho

reply to post by MagnumOpus


No.

I'm not doing your research for you,

It's not my fault you've failed to research anything beyond your own shallow interpretations

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

No.

I'm not doing your research for you,

It's not my fault you've failed to research anything beyond your own shallow interpretations

You have become the accuser, it is up to you to make your case.

Then the conclusion is that you can't support your claim and you are considered unsupported and thus the maker of false assertions.

Thus, I don't believe you. Don't think any other rational thinkers would either.

But Christianty does tend to make a bunch of people that engage in the irrational and delisional thinking which is needed to make their miracles that don't exist. imho


Go find you a doctor and see if you can get him to claim that a person correctly diagnosed as Brain Dead can come back to life, see how long it takes for them to send you off to the place with little white coats or just to discount you as ignorant.

reply to post by MagnumOpus
You bring up two words that you might like to explain . rational & delusional .Lets move away for a moment to consider Quantum Physics ..I don't think you would be considered the all knowing pious person you think you are at a conference of PHD's telling them they were delusional and not being rational thinkers to actually believe that Quantum Physics is a genuine phenomena ..They don't think its a miracle what they see, but are sure at a loss to explain it ...Now when you consider that what they are studying are the effects of what the Great Creator has created its not a big step to imagine that He can do what ever He wants to ...And I don't care how much you think you know or how PIOUS you think you are you are just a mere mortal man with less imagination than a child but more pride than Nebuchadnezzar ...You should consider him ..and humble yourself before the living God and ask Him for help ...For it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living God ..

Originally posted by the2ofusr1
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

You bring up two words that you might like to explain . rational & delusional .Lets move away for a moment to consider Quantum Physics ..I don't think you would be considered the all knowing pious person you think you are at a conference of PHD's telling them they were delusional and not being rational thinkers to actually believe that Quantum Physics is a genuine phenomena ..They don't think its a miracle what they see, but are sure at a loss to explain it ...Now when you consider that what they are studying are the effects of what the Great Creator has created its not a big step to imagine that He can do what ever He wants to ...And I don't care how much you think you know or how PIOUS you think you are you are just a mere mortal man with less imagination than a child but more pride than Nebuchadnezzar ...You should consider him ..and humble yourself before the living God and ask Him for help ...For it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living God ..

edit on 2-5-2012 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)

Nothing in the Bible is Quantum Physics. I study science issues everyday and consider that the study of the Creators works and the discovery of the Intelligent Designs.

The discussions of Jesus is a medical and life sciences issue that exists well defined in our sciences, and it is those sciences that set the standards for discussions. And those sciences set the issues for what is irrational and delusional thinking. Isn't the theme here called Medical Perspective? Doesn't say Quantum Physics.

Just like the ways of the Physicists, unless it is proven then all is conjecture. Most all quantum physics exists as conjecture, or theoretical, for which they attempt to prove and many of the proofs are elusive.


Most of the so called Miracles in the Narratives have rational explanations using sciences, once one removes the primitive ways they speak to many of the workings of nature. Likewise, Jesus survival has a rational explanation which is that he didn't die and it is the primitive ways they speak, often with allegory, and understand that is the central issue.

reply to post by MagnumOpus
Using your thinking process where the narrative definitely states He did die any you claim that He didn't then why don't you use the same rules to flip the narrative around to claim He was dead ....you cant have or shouldn't spin that brain thinking process around too much ,you might get dizzy and fall down and go boom .. Get a grip of something not moving and think this threw carefully ...
You could be correct if Jesus was a mear man, but the narritive goes much furthur if you dont use your damaged logic to spin the narritive around to what you want it to say

reply to post by MagnumOpus

Nothing in the Bible is Quantum Physics.

Here is an issue of Quantum Physics:


"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" ~ Ephesians 1:4


"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.' ~ Romans 10:13



So tell me how those who are the called and the elect could have been chosen before the foundation of the world, (predestinated), and also anyone who calls upon Him will be saved (free-will)?

How are both true? This IS a Quantum Physics deceleration.

Originally posted by the2ofusr1
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

Using your thinking process where the narrative definitely states He did die any you claim that He didn't then why don't you use the same rules to flip the narrative around to claim He was dead ....you cant have or shouldn't spin that brain thinking process around too much ,you might get dizzy and fall down and go boom .. Get a grip of something not moving and think this threw carefully ...
You could be correct if Jesus was a mear man, but the narritive goes much furthur if you dont use your damaged logic to spin the narritive around to what you want it to say

edit on 2-5-2012 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)

In the primitive ways, of this time, many thought Jesus did die as that is the normal outcome for nailing to a tree. Only a select few knew otherwise. Certainly, they needed to suggest Jesus died on the Tree to have the Roman Law fullfilled and to make everyone think Jesus was dead and gone. But, there is more to the story.

The normal was not in place for Jesus as there were no broken legs and three days to take to die. Joseph and Nicodemus had enough pull with Pilate to get Jesus down quickly and do some medical methods of the period.

It looks like many had to slip back to explanations of an earlier period and make Jesus into something that he was not to explain things for their primitive mindset. Thus, many explanations jump back to the Pagan Babylon views of things.

They wanted a King, they Wanted a Messiah, they wanted a god to replace the old Pharisee god, So, they crafted one from taking up the old ways to explain what they wanted. Then they played a game to fullfill Roman Law that Jesus was dead, but the one upper the Romans in telling he was brought to life by god.

The reality is Jesus was just a man, a well educated man that was advanced for his times, and he was not god.

He didn't die on the tree, but moved off and lived elsewhere and eventually died.


His message lives on via some of the overblown tales, and he isn't coming back other that everyone learning to understand what his message was and finding that what he was telling was the best understanding, or the better way.

For those that understand the Jesus Way in the correct context, they become the greater is he that is within you than he that is within the world. Meaning that the Organized Christians contexts are the wrong or the dead, and the Rapture truths that correct these misreading become the higher truth. The ones reborn to the way or the ones Raptured to the higher truth become the he that is within you being greater than the he of the organized churchs bad interpretations.


But due to the low level of understanding and christians fabricating mircles where none exist, they've pretty much killed Jesus coming back in the terms of he that is within you being the greater, and what is needed for Jesus to return.

So, organized religion kills Jesus in this day and age, and this is the theme of Jesus is dead for your organized church sins against him. And that is also consistent with the organized church being corrupt in the end-times, due to these same failings to grasp the messages in the correct and fuller context.

And those failing Jesus are well represented here.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

How are both true? This IS a Quantum Physics deceleration.

Dream on Nimrod. Plus, you are way way off the topic. Focus on your theme and stop jumping around all over the place.

Originally posted by MagnumOpus

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

How are both true? This IS a Quantum Physics deceleration.

Dream on Nimrod. Plus, you are way way off the topic. Focus on your theme and stop jumping around all over the place.

Think 1916. How are the two decelerations a Quantum Physics issue? And I quoted you, if you don't want to talk about Quantum Physics you should have never interjected it into the discussion. And miracles are "event horizons", the resurrection was an event horizon.

That's Quantum Physics. You can tap out if you have no idea.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by MagnumOpus

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

How are both true? This IS a Quantum Physics deceleration.

Dream on Nimrod. Plus, you are way way off the topic. Focus on your theme and stop jumping around all over the place.

Think 1916. How are the two decelerations a Quantum Physics issue? And I quoted you, if you don't want to talk about Quantum Physics you should have never interjected it into the discussion. And miracles are "event horizons", the resurrection was an event horizon.

That's Quantum Physics. You can tap out if you have no idea.

edit on 2-5-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

I didn't inject it into the discussions and even said it had no place. Also, said it is off topic.

Tell the moderators why Quantum Physics has anything to do with A Medical Perspective.

Get back on the topic-----Medical Perspective. Stop the misleading spin and baiting.

Originally posted by MagnumOpus

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by MagnumOpus

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

How are both true? This IS a Quantum Physics deceleration.

Dream on Nimrod. Plus, you are way way off the topic. Focus on your theme and stop jumping around all over the place.

Think 1916. How are the two decelerations a Quantum Physics issue? And I quoted you, if you don't want to talk about Quantum Physics you should have never interjected it into the discussion. And miracles are "event horizons", the resurrection was an event horizon.

That's Quantum Physics. You can tap out if you have no idea.

I didn't inject it into the discussions and even said it had no place. Also, said it is off topic.

Tell the moderators why Quantum Physics has anything to do with A Medical Perspective.

Get back on the topic-----Medical Perspective. Stop the misleading spin and baiting.

You haven't been on the medical perspective of the crucifixion for a LONG time in this thread (which is mine btw).

Don't get angry I'm addressing your rabbit trail. You went off into the resurrection, that's an event horizon. It breaks the laws of Physics and the known sciences. Event horizons have to do with Quantum Physics. Miracles are event horizons.

So either admit you have no idea, and drop this nonsense, or tell me how both of those verses deal with the reality of the General Theory of Relativity (GRT 1916).

reply to post by Iason321

Have you ever wondered how Jesus Christ could be crucified on Friday and be resurrected on Sunday after being buried for three days? Well, that's impossible! You cannot squeeze three days between Friday and Sunday. By no stretch of the imagination is it possible to stretch the period from Friday evening to Sunday morning into "three days and three nights."

exactly my point. Tell that to your mentor.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

You haven't been on the medical perspective of the crucifixion for a LONG time in this thread (which is mine btw).

Don't get angry I'm addressing your rabbit trail. You went off into the resurrection, that's an event horizon. It breaks the laws of Physics and the known sciences. Event horizons have to do with Quantum Physics. Miracles are event horizons.

So either admit you have no idea, and drop this nonsense, or tell me how both of those verses deal with the reality of the General Theory of Relativity (GRT 1916).

So, show us all the medical literature that speaks to folks coming out of brain death due to Quantum Physics.

Has to be the peer reviewed medical literature.

Crucifiction involved the theme of resurrection, so that is on topic. But, I do think you need to show medical science has given validity to your "Quantum Resurrection".

Got the citations for this?

reply to post by jmdewey60

Luke, according to you, just doesn't know what he is talking about, being an ignorant gentile, and can be completely ignored.

That's bizarre, too, because Luke was....
erm.....
a PHYSICIAN.

Even the rollers can't agree on what day, ... "Wednesday. No, wait, Thursday. No, erm, Friday..."and this convoluted manner of rearranging calendar methods of days and nights is one of the lamest things I have ever come across (well, except for the "stabbed through the heart" part....that one is bizarre, too).

A three-year old can place a finger on a Friday in a box-style calendar, say "one", then point to Saturday and say "two" and finally Sunday and say "three". "On the third day, he rose again, according to the Scriptures".

Not THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS.

Then the OP claims "historical sources" back up his flagellum theory for torn flesh and exposed bone where NOTHING in the Bible indicates that happened....and a few posts later says Roman's quit "whenever they felt like it."

My post regarding sitting with my husband in a hospital while his pleural effusion (which became empyema) was drained was TOTALLY ignored. Yes, he ALMOST died, he was in critical condition. They waited three days to put the chest tube in, hoping that simple antibiotics would work. They MISSED the part of his rib (lower right rib, what do ya know!) being broken, even though we TOLD them it was when we went to ER. They denied it, until the guy who actually INSERTED the chest tube saw it during a CAT-scan and corrected the other doctors. That tube saved his life. And ya know what?? Even the doctors in the ICU on the 9th day shook their heads and said, "Looks like we'll have to do surgery. It will be really, really painful, but the chest tube isn't working well enough..." I insisted that they look at the X-ray before prepping him...
and surprise, surprise........THE X-RAY SHOWED IT WAS CLEAR!!! The doctor himself (pulmonologist) was so excited that he literally danced in the ICU hallway....the surgeon even came in and "CONGRATULATED" my husband.

The stabbing in the lung lining would have allowed the watery, bloody fluid to escape, and certainly might have saved Jesus' lung from collapsing altogether as well....

But apparently NO AMOUNT of people who KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT on here and make absolute, perfect sense, calmly, and repetitively, is going to change the childish rhetoric that the OP and his protege insist on embracing after having made it up using stoner mentality ...."ooh..ooh!! I know! THIS! yeah, man, dude, wow, if we say THIS...we can then twist this around..and what if...OMG! Whoa, dude, that's intense. Man. Mind blown, dude. High five".

Funny, the paper I wrote for physics in that frame of mind seemed absolutely BRILLIANT to me at the time...I turned it in, and got it back with an "F". An "F"!!! From a straight-A student! It was an utter failure, the only F I ever got in my life.


The OP can't have his cake and eat it, too. Looking more and more frantic and peurile, to me. And accusing others of huffing and puffing just exacerbates the weakness of his argument.

(Oh, btw ... "Cake or death?" www.abovetopsecret.com...)

reply to post by NOTurTypical

What extra day? They laid Him in the tomb. (end of Thursday, advent of Friday) They went into town and returned home to prepare the spices (Friday), they stayed in their homes according to the commandment (Saturday), and when they woke up (Sunday) morning they went to the tomb. He went into the tomb on Thursday just before Friday began according to Jewish reckoning (6 to 7ish pm)

That (the above quote) is a lie *, according to Luke.
Here (quoted below) is the story according to Luke, quoting all the verses from 23:54 through 24:2
Day 1
Then he took it down, wrapped it in a linen cloth, and placed it in a tomb cut out of the rock, where no one had yet been buried. It was the day of preparation and the Sabbath was beginning. The women who had accompanied Jesus from Galilee followed, and they saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. Then they returned and prepared aromatic spices and perfumes.
Day 2
On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.
Day 3
Now on the first day of the week, at early dawn, the women went to the tomb, taking the aromatic spices they had prepared. They found that the stone had been rolled away from the tomb,

*oops, I meant, inaccuracy (don't want to be hateful)

reply to post by MagnumOpus

But due to the low level of understanding and christians fabricating mircles where none exist, they've pretty much killed Jesus coming back in the terms of he that is within you being the greater, and what is needed for Jesus to return.

So, organized religion kills Jesus in this day and age, and this is the theme of Jesus is dead for your organized church sins against him. And that is also consistent with the organized church being corrupt in the end-times, due to these same failings to grasp the messages in the correct and fuller context.

And those failing Jesus are well represented here.

Magnum, I sure hope you've been duly acknowledged with the quality of your posts and your information by the mods...
you've done a brilliant, patient, calm, tenacious job here, and I, for one, for what it's worth, am VERY glad that you are here on ATS. Look forward to reading your posts in the future. Rock on!!

reply to post by NOTurTypical

You haven't been on the medical perspective of the crucifixion for a LONG time in this thread (which is mine btw).

Absolute lie ^^^
He has stuck to the Medical Perspective all along. It is you who continues to toss out rearranging of day-counting, and unsupported nonsense about what happened BEFORE and AFTER among the others. The fact is that your Doctor, for all his autopsy experience, was not there, and is using his own "beliefs" to back up his claim. You even quoted him saying so.

It's not everyone else's fault that your premise fell apart.