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The Origins of Aleister Crowley's Thelema, and the possibility that its an elaborate hoax.

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posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 03:30 AM
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reply to post by Lagrimas
 


Sorry, were you ever considering that this all WASN'T a hoax??

It's all obviously a hoax.




posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 04:00 AM
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As I look at this now you have 57 flags and just two pages of comments, which shows me that people appreciate the amount of thought and research you put into this as well as how you presented your thought process in the initial post. A job well done, and worthy of another flag if I could sneak around the code and give you one. Nice work.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 04:24 AM
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I would have posted a little bit sooner, but I got lost reading all the comments and links then those links took me to more links. (I always get stuck on the internet clicking link after link for a while til I get bored of that particular topic). I've always been intrigued by Aleister Crowley, so thank you for this post! This certainly gave me a lot of information to think about. I've read parts of The Book of the Law, and found it beautifully written. Unfortunately, I don't have much else to add to this conversation, except a thanks for the inspiration to read a bit more this evening.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 05:09 AM
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Originally posted by Lagrimas
reply to post by Cuervo
 


Yes very well said. I myself practice 'white thelema' the father of wicca. I think you are fooling yourself however if you don't realise that the book of the law's rules do allow for hedonism. They allow for whatever a star wants, no holds barred. Choices our ours. The doctrine leaves the gates very much open.

Living for the 93's and not just the 93 is commendable. It is the way of the wise. The way of the love magickian.

It's a big scary world out there though!
edit on 16-4-2012 by Lagrimas because: (no reason given)


I would point out that this is your interpretation. No elses. Every man and woman must interpret Liber AL vel Legis for themselves. Speaking of which, did you destroy your copy after reading the comment? ;-)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 05:11 AM
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Taken me down quite the rabbit hole, this thread has.

Just wanted to lend my thanks to the OP and those who shared insight.


I'd like to add... My instincts tell me Crowley, just like Hitler, had a lot of help. It seems that a lot of the information I have come across about men "like them" --- there's always a puppet master. Be it a woman named Rose or a nameless group of patient, powerful men.
edit on 17-4-2012 by ThinkingCap because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 05:23 AM
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There is nothing remarkable about the Late Period Stele or text from the perspective of Egyptology, nothing new there pertaining to the aspects of Osiris that hadn't been wrote of since the Middle Kingdom, the title 'Lord of the West' relates to the setting sun, the necropolis of the West bank of the Nile, the underworld role of Osiris.


Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu is the name of the deceased Priest supplicant for whom the stele is dedicated, in death a direct association would be made between the deceased and Osiris to facilitate entrance into the afterlife, and to be reborn as an aspect of Re in the East, all Egyptians would have hoped for/expected some aspect of this association at death.


Re-Harakhty is Lord of the two horizons, East and West, Nut the sky Goddess forms the arch that the winged solar disk traverses, Osiris facilitiates the journey from the West to be reborn as an aspect of Re in the East.


The point i guess being that there are many such stele or texts that would have served Crowley's purpose equally well, personally i'd have chosen Pyramid Texts, utterance 472, but there you go...




"The sky quivers, the earth quakes before me, for I am a magician, I possess magic. "



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 05:34 AM
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reply to post by Kantzveldt
 


Thanks for your insights, Im no Egyptologist myself, just someone with a deep interest in Thelema. I guess if the Stele is real then the manner in which Crowley perpetrated the Hoax becomes a bigger mystery,

I still cant help but wonder about the whole Aiwass delivering a message from Horus aspect, perhaps Crowley really did have a conversation with his higher self/ subconscious mind. I suppose we will never know.

Thanks again for adding to the discussion.
And everybody else who added comments, stars and Flags. 93's to every one of you.
Lag.
edit on 17-4-2012 by Lagrimas because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 06:08 AM
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reply to post by Lagrimas
 



Perhaps just opportunism or inspired by synchronicity, take your pick, when his wife recognises Horus in the stele and Crowley becomes intrigued by the 666 exhibit number. He seems to have attempted to understand Egyptian religion in conjunction with biblical tradition, as did the Theosophists and Masons of his day, not to mention the Egyptologists...thus you see a curious merging of the likes of the Book of the Dead and Book of Revelations into one.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 06:44 AM
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Perhaps just opportunism or inspired by synchronicity, take your pick, when his wife recognises Horus in the stele and Crowley becomes intrigued by the 666 exhibit number. He seems to have attempted to understand Egyptian religion in conjunction with biblical tradition, as did the Theosophists and Masons of his day, not to mention the Egyptologists...thus you see a curious merging of the likes of the Book of the Dead and Book of Revelations into one.
reply to post by Kantzveldt
 


Yes I think this is a good take on the situation.
Perhaps there's some truth to the story of how the stele and book were revealed to Crowley, and he just embellished the story slightly to make it more exciting?

I still find it highly dubious that an entity called Aiwass dictated the Law of Thelema and not that Crowley wrote it himself.

Specially taking what you've said in to account, that Crowley would have been well versed in knowledge of the Bible and books like the book of the dead. This combined with his knowledge of Buddhism would have given him a fine platform to write the book of the law, i would imagine.
rice n peace.
Lag



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by ThinkingCap
 


I doubt that Crowley had a puppet master or a group who manipulated him. People like him, in my experience, are self-directed and even as they push the envelope of civilization they push their own envelopes, and there is usually nobody around who can keep up with them. From what I've read about Rose she gave a lot of her energy up after their child died, and led a probably nonexciting life after that, except for the drinking (although I may of course be totally wrong).

[en.wikipedia.org... Rose's wikipedia entry], which has some data about the background of the writing of the Book of the Law.
edit on 17-4-2012 by Aleister because: link



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by Lagrimas



Perhaps just opportunism or inspired by synchronicity, take your pick, when his wife recognises Horus in the stele and Crowley becomes intrigued by the 666 exhibit number. He seems to have attempted to understand Egyptian religion in conjunction with biblical tradition, as did the Theosophists and Masons of his day, not to mention the Egyptologists...thus you see a curious merging of the likes of the Book of the Dead and Book of Revelations into one.
reply to post by Kantzveldt
 


Yes I think this is a good take on the situation.
Perhaps there's some truth to the story of how the stele and book were revealed to Crowley, and he just embellished the story slightly to make it more exciting?

I still find it highly dubious that an entity called Aiwass dictated the Law of Thelema and not that Crowley wrote it himself.

Specially taking what you've said in to account, that Crowley would have been well versed in knowledge of the Bible and books like the book of the dead. This combined with his knowledge of Buddhism would have given him a fine platform to write the book of the law, i would imagine.
rice n peace.
Lag




An entitity called Aiwass dictating to Crowley is of course highly dubious, reminiscent of Moroni dictating golden tablets to Joseph Smith founder of the Mormons, outright fraud in my opinion, but there were obviously people around prepared to believe in these direct revelations, and those who would take advantage.


Crowley was of course well read and connected to the Theosophists of his day, to understand his approach to Egyptology, Gerald Massey needs to be looked at, in particular the 'Natural Genesis' published 1883 and Egypt 'Light of the World' published 1907


Natural Genesis


ANCIENT EGYPT...Light of the World




It may have been a million years ago
The Light was kindled in the Old Dark Land
With which the illumined Scrolls are all aglow,
That Egypt gave us her mummied hand:
This was the secret of that subtle smile
Inscrutable upon the Sphinx's face,
Now told from sea to sea, from isle to isle;
The revelation of the Old Dark Race;
Theirs was the wisdom of the Bee and Bird,
Ant, Tortoise, Beaver, working human-wise;
The ancient darkness spake with Egypt's Word;
Hers was the primal message of the skies:
The Heavens are telling nightly of her glory,
And for all time Earth echoes her great story.




That's the basis for Crowley's syncretism, Massey laid down the foundations which he adopted. It can be seen also in those works that numerology was an aspect of these 'revelations', thus Crowley latching onto a piece of numerology in conjunction with an image of Horus i don't find surprising for the mindset of the period amongst his circle.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 07:45 AM
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That is some first rate research you have done, bravo and stars and flags for your effort alone.

I personally am a fan of Crowley and I have been a student of mysticism for most of my life (about 30 of my 44 years). Crowley set some important ground work and brought together a fantastic amount of research and insight himself.

You want to be a prophet and speak to spirits and travel the astral void? Make it your life's work. Visualize it, believe it, emotionally invest yourself in it and the universe will make it happen. I think this is what Crowley did, of course he and many others. What I see in Crowley's writings he manifested his own experiences as we all do.

It comes in inspiration, it comes in meditations, information and concepts slap your brain like a solid ray of light and you are now aware. Divine inspiration, access to spiritual entities who whisper in your ear or bull# you just made up? Who can say? But Crowley did great things in the name of metaphysics and I am glad that he did.
edit on 17-4-2012 by sdocpublishing because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 07:46 AM
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Originally posted by Kantzveldt


An entitity called Aiwass dictating to Crowley is of course highly dubious, reminiscent of Moroni dictating golden tablets to Joseph Smith founder of the Mormons, outright fraud in my opinion, but there were obviously people around prepared to believe in these direct revelations, and those who would take advantage.


This is absolutely true, but it is important to remember that Crowley did not consider Aiwass an "entity". Rather, he saw Aiwass as (in Golden Dawn speak), his own Higher Genius, or the divine spark within himself. Communication with that hidden part of ourselves is known, traditionally, as the "Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel", and is the task of the Minor Adept in the Outer College.

As Crowley himself noted in his diaries and commentaries, it is convenient to consider the HGA as separate being for ceremonial purposes, but there's no reason to believe that it actually is separate in reality.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 



I guess then a simple anagram 'As i saw' or 'As i was' or 'I was as' or 'i saw as' , suggests the inspiration for Aiwass.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by Lagrimas
 


Looked up Rose Kelly. Seems Aleister had her committed to an asylum in '11 for "alcohol dementia", and when she was released, ended up marrying a doctor Gromley. (PO'd about being silenced to an institution?



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by Iconic
 


Haha a bit of independent research.
Love it.
Who knows maybe Rose decided she was going to spill the beans on the whole Hoax and Crowley found a way to silence her... Great stuff. Thanks for the input Iconic. Star for you.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by sdocpublishing
 


Just thought it would be worth mentioning that it's not a good idea to go traipsing around the astral plane untrained and on your own.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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Thanks for the information on the stele.
I've studied Crowley for decades now. I too am convinced he was a genius.

I think that a lot of people with Christian leanings get all hung up on that 666/beast stuff and I think, to Crowley, it was a bit of a multilayered joke.

I think he, being a moutaineer, identified with the tarot card 15 as his significator. Such a devil, with a side of male and female, chained to sexual identity as male/female, ect.

I don't think the stele had to be a hoax, but so what if it was? I think it was probably something that resonated with him that maybe resonated through TIME.

There are magickal things and they are even stranger than we can imagine. I don't think he went insane, I simply think he quit wanting anything. Hope he'd got to that point.

The man stood as a magician seeing the lines that invisibly connect the one.

Is Barbara Bush really his granddaughter?
I do think he was a spy though. IF he was not, someone missed a grand opportunity. There's lots about him no doubt we do not know.

To me 777 is one of the most insightful occult texts ever written.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 10:25 AM
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L,
You are very keyed in on the idea that Thelma is a "hoax" or a put on by Crowley.
Have you given any consideration to the idea that its not a hoax at least in the traditional concept of a hoax?

The idea that Crowley himself believed it to be revelation. In other words his "higher self" coaxed on by drug or alcohol did revel to him conections between information Crowley had learned over years and years. His subconcious mind builds this body of information and the setting of Cairo and all the other factors of his environment did infact cause it to flow from him in a rather firehose like manor. he didnt hoax anything but its not a spirit entity either.

Its not that there is anything magical about it per sey, its just the way in which Crowley packages it that gives it power. The basic information of Thelma is a combination of old mystery school information Crowley had already internalized.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by Lagrimas
 


First of all, star and flag for the research and well written post. Good job.


That said, I think you're over-thinking a few things. Specifically, times and places that you take as being more than just a coincidence. For example the moving of the Stele in 1902, his marriage to Rose in 1903, and his finding it in 1904. It sounds to me like you're taking "time stamped" instances and turning them into something more than what they are.

And then there's Baddicombe Gunn. You say that Crowley's association with him was "too close for comfort." I say that people travel within their circle of people who have a lot in common with each other. Birds of a feather. That's all that sounds like it is to me.

You seem to have good research skills so I would suggest the same thing another poster did and start getting in contact with the authors of the Wiki article you heavily referenced. It's no secret that anyone can go and edit articles there so I would double check the information for authenticity.Especially if you're going to keep making posts like this. You know as well as anyone that people here are going to be quick to call you out when they smell BS. You seem to deserve better than that so just make sure all your I's are dotted and T's are crossed.

Something else I want to mention that might help you see things in a different light so as to help you get to the bottom of this is that we all know Crowley was pretty much a self made man. He made his own life what it was. No one else pulled the strings. He's not the only one who was ever like this and he wont be the last. In this day and age though people like him, who march to the beat of their own drummer, and getting to be found very few and far between. Perhaps this is why it's getting harder and harder to understand people like him.

If I were you I would imagine your own life kind of like his in that you do your own thing regardless of what other people say or do. Put yourself in his shoes and see through his eyes for a bit. If you do you might find that when people live the life of people like Crowley that things just fall into place. I wouldn't recommend the amount drugs and reckless sexual abandon that he did, very few people can do what he did and live to tell about it, just will your own version of what you think your life should be by doing whatever it takes to make it so.

("Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law". That's what I take it mean at least.)

If you do or imagine that kind of life you'll find that it gets easier to do whatever it takes as time goes by. It's just like anything else in that the longer you do something the better you get at it. And I think that's the main reason why, 100 years after the fact, we can send probes to Saturn and figure out how big our galaxy his, but we still can't get a firm grip on whether Crowley was a fraud or not. It's that way I think because Crowley was one of the best at what he did. And that, simply put, is the fact that he made his own life by whatever means it took. People, for the most part, don't do that anymore. For all of the mans faults, you gotta give him that.

So was he a fraud or was he genuine? He was both IMO. If deceiving people got him what he wanted out of life then that is what he would do. And I far as I can tell nobody got hurt by those actions. Either confused or awakened....but not hurt. He didn't do it all the time of course, if that were the case he would've been found out a long time ago. People may not be on his level, but they're not stupid. The fact remains though, and I think it's self-evident based on the outcome of his life, that the ends justified the means. And the ends in this case is that he will go down in history as possibly the most influential occultist there ever was and also as somebody that no one could ever fully figure out.Those two will always go hand in hand because his intentions were genuine but he had to bend the rules from time to time to make those intentions reality.

When you can do what he did and produce a good, solid outcome, then you're a magician of the highest order. That's my take on it at least.






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