The Origins of Aleister Crowley's Thelema, and the possibility that its an elaborate hoax.

page: 4
78
<< 1  2  3    5  6 >>

log in

join

posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 10:47 AM
link   
reply to post by Cuervo
 


It is always refreshing to see One that begins to understand!

Love is the law, love under will.
F.A.




posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 10:50 AM
link   
I've never heard of any of these occult spells or magic ever actually working. Kinda makes it all works of fiction to myself like Harry Potter books.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 11:04 AM
link   

Originally posted by reficul
reply to post by Dimithae
 


DO WHAT YE WILL,BE IT THE WHOLE OF THE LAW. LOVE IS THE LAW.


This "phrase" is from the Book of Law itself. And, we are instructed in the Book not to change anything, even the style of a letter. And you do this!

The real quote is:


Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.


Liber AL vel Legis (220) 1:40

While you are quite correct is stating that understanding of this single line is of utmost importance, the "changing" of the text actually begins to mislead.

A wee ti to those who would call themselves Thelemites, or begin the study of Crowley. Read the Book of the Law. Understand it (as best as you can), leave nothing out. Invoke often.

Etharzi od Oma.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 11:18 AM
link   
reply to post by AnthraAndromda
 


i'm sorry but i do not follow thelema,i just study! and you are correct,my bad. not even supposed to be 'typing' these sacred words! just like the torah.not even a pen stroke should be changed!
i study many faiths from all over the globe,and sometimes things get all mixed up!
a lot to take in!



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 11:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by reficul
your research is impressive! i have many books by crowley,and i hate to say it but the man was brilliant,even though he went insane at the end. now this business about thelema is an actual working magickal force,as is christianity,judaism,hinduism and so forth.the book of the law is actually a beatifull piece of literature. yes this man crowley was a trickster,and wanted attention.but he was also well versed in many beliefs.
i think the golden dawn was a flop because of mathers,but isreal regarde tried to bring it back,and he did ok .now its just a boys club for rich guys to think they know more than you about the secrets of the universe!
i'm not sure if crowley tried to make a new religion just for a joke,i wouldn't put it past him! but the man knew his stuff! hiss book 777 is packed full of info on magical workings.his book the book of thoth is full of insight on the tarot.you have to give him that! and the stele he seen in the cairo museum is a little shady because of its number 666 which he refered to himself as the 'beast'. but you have to acknowlege the fact that the man knew his stuff!
gee, i thought i was the only one here that digs this stuff!
what is your thoughts on eliphas levi,jon dee,or even the key of solomon the king?
peace


Crowley did NOT go insane at the end. Where did you get that? Crowley was still a heroin addict and heavy drinker when he died. He was living alone and still functional.

Crowley had moments of brilliance and his books are considered standard textbooks in Western Magick, but I would not describe "The Book of the Law" as a beautiful piece of literature.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 11:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by isyeye
I only have a minute due to being at work, but I would like to add a comment to this thread, and I'll try to come back to finish it later.

I've done rather alot of research on Crowley, his works, and Thelema. The hardest part about understanding Crowley is finding out what is legit information, and what was bs. While he did base much of his work on earlier known information, he was known to alter much of his systems to match his personal beliefs. With that being said, he also corrected many previous errors.

Crowley had alot of potential, but was too concerned with personal pleasures to find the meaning in his own work. On the surface, nothing is as it appear when you are dealing with most of the subjects he wrote about, and it takes a deeper understanding to grasp the hidden meaning. Crowley liked to bend the rules to be what he wanted, and never fully realized what he was dealing with.


There was an element of emotional or psychological immaturity in Crowley -- the perennial adolescent.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 11:49 AM
link   
reply to post by AuranVector
 


well i think anyone addicted to heroin must be slightly insane!

as for the book of the law,i'd like to think of it as enjoyable literature. to each there own!

i'm just pleasantly surprised so many people are so well versed on crowley.
most of the people i know only know the ozzy song 'mr. crowley'!!!
peace

'in order to dare we must know'
in order to will we must dare.
we must will to possess empire.
and to reign,we must be silent!'



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 12:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by Flother
...

In the mid-18th century, Sir Francis Dashwood inscribed the adage on a doorway of his abbey at Medmenham,[16] where it served as the motto of The Hellfire Club.[16] Rabelais' Abbey of Thelema has been referred to by later writers Sir Walter Besant and James Rice, in their novel The Monks of Thelema (1878), and C.R. Ashbee in his utopian romance The Building of Thelema (1910).



There you have it : the (not so) missing link between France and Britain, that explains how a thirty-something english guy somwhat fascinated with the raging occultesque trend that was plaguing western Europe and East-Coast at times find a way to later fulfill is taste for fame, power, big bad boy naughty beasts, and, last but not least, (not so) wild early XXth c. lil' hotties...
... Oh ! Did I mention the guy named Adolf Hitler that Mister Aleister Crowley felt good to welcom as his very personal Magick Child ?...


Crowley was aware of all kinds of things when he was young student at Cambridge -- including Yoga and other forms of mysticism.

He would have assumed that any well-educated Englishman would be aware of the references. Crowley was a huge snob & elitist.

Crowley welcomed Adolf Hitler as his "magickal childe"? Where did you get that?



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 12:17 PM
link   
This turd was brilliant in the sense that he gets a bunch of fools to follow him in awe. So yeah i guess he was brilliant



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 12:33 PM
link   
reply to post by lokdog
 


A suggestion to answer your own question on "magic" vs Magik.

Buy a note pad/journal
Write at the top, What is my true Will ?
Write any answer that pops into your head.
repeat until you write the answer that makes you cry.
this may take some time.

Once you know your will, then you can use it, that is Magik.
edit on 17-4-2012 by AliceBlackman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 01:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by Lagrimas
reply to post by The 5th
 


I think that what you are trying to say is that you believe Aleister Crowley to be a legendarily clever guy, who got delivered a gift from some 'entity' called Aiwass. A book, dictated from a GOD via a messenger, all because his [A.'.C.'.] wife had led him to a Stele (of revealing). in 1904.

A book which the Buddhist Gentleman would promote ravenously, while claiming to be confused about. Til the end.

I claim that it was all Crowley's big plan and game. A good one and one that's worth being a part of, but a humanly constructed Hoax nevertheless.

'


Well your right in the assumption that i think he was very intelligent, as he was, but you seem to be projecting your own thoughts about it on to my post.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 02:12 PM
link   
reply to post by Lagrimas
 


The only thing I have to offer is regarding your comment on the "smiley face" on the stele and your wondering if it is one of Crowely's jokes...

well, the iconographic "smiley face" only became a meme in the 1960's (or early 70's) so I would argue that it is not meant to be that... and of course the 'ol beast was full of it, as that is the nature of magik and such thingies...

and kudos on posting anything re: Robert A. Wilson because he ruined many perfectly normal lives ...thank whatever powers might exist.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 02:48 PM
link   
reply to post by AuranVector
 


Liber CCXX 31:
for these fools of men and their woes care not thou at all! they feel little;what is, is balanced by weak joys;but ye are my chosen ones'



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 02:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by Aleister
reply to post by ThinkingCap
 


I doubt that Crowley had a puppet master or a group who manipulated him. People like him, in my experience, are self-directed and even as they push the envelope of civilization they push their own envelopes, and there is usually nobody around who can keep up with them. From what I've read about Rose she gave a lot of her energy up after their child died, and led a probably nonexciting life after that, except for the drinking (although I may of course be totally wrong).

[en.wikipedia.org... Rose's wikipedia entry], which has some data about the background of the writing of the Book of the Law.
edit on 17-4-2012 by Aleister because: link


As I recall, Rose turned into a full-blown alcoholic and was eventually institutionalized. I can't remember if she was institutionalized before or after Crowley divorced her. I don't have the time right now to go thru my books.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 03:26 PM
link   
Crowley was.......Crowley. Not many like him, good or bad. It's also true that just about everything he says is a rip from someone else. "No new thing under the sun" and all that. What he did was consolidate a decent amount of occult theory and thought that was pan-cultural and pan-religious. He learned from everything, read everything and tried everything(for his day).

But this isn't just about the person, its about what he said. Is ANY of it original? No. But is it a hoax? No. I don't believe that he lead the life he did so that he could 'fool' people into thinking he was eccentric or worthy of attention, although he definitely craved it, that wasn't his end game. He really thought he was onto something, something he didn't have a full graps of himself.

Abrahadabra, for example wasn't his, unless he invented Aramaic and therefore the Phoenician Language...

from Lawrence Kushner's Im God, Your Not:



Rabbi Lawrence Kushner says, "The way you say 'I create' in Aramaic (a cognate of Hebrew and the language of both the Talmud and the Zohar) is avara. The way you say "I speak" is davara. And the way you say "I create as I speak" is avara k'davara--Abracadabra."


Words create reality, this is a central tenant of the Kabbalah. "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with god....." Words are the means by which the spiritual influences the physical. Words are the synthesis of number and quality.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 04:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by reficul
reply to post by AnthraAndromda
 


i'm sorry but i do not follow thelema,i just study! and you are correct,my bad. not even supposed to be 'typing' these sacred words! just like the torah.not even a pen stroke should be changed!
i study many faiths from all over the globe,and sometimes things get all mixed up!
a lot to take in!


And that is what is intresting; that typed versions are considered interpretations. So to be correct and all, here is the manuscript.
The Holograph Manuscript of Liber AL vel Legis

And for those too lazy, here are the direct links to the 93's






posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 05:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by AliceBlackman
reply to post by lokdog
 


A suggestion to answer your own question on "magic" vs Magik.

Buy a note pad/journal
Write at the top, What is my true Will ?
Write any answer that pops into your head.
repeat until you write the answer that makes you cry.
this may take some time.

Once you know your will, then you can use it, that is Magik.
edit on 17-4-2012 by AliceBlackman because: (no reason given)



Woud it be fair to say that Magick is simply a more theatrical form of Neuro Linguistic Programming (and therefore NLP is a less theatrical form of Magick)?

And Magick may be more powerful as a pschyo-therapeutic or psycho-manipulative tool in that it uses the power of imagination and memes drawn from tradition which are elaborated and embellished according to your fancy. Whether those traditions are correctly represented or are 'true' or or not is more or less irrelevant to getting results within your own mind.

What you say about writing until you discover your own true will sounds similar to Jed Mckenna's process of spiritual autolysis, which is the process of writing down ONE thing that is true.
It is in this process that one works through all that is false, until one is left with, literally, enlightenment.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 05:59 PM
link   
reply to post by The 5th
 


I didnt mean to put words in your mouth, and im not actually convinced that I did.
Im sorry if it seemed that way The 5th. Thanks for contributing.

You implied in your post that Crowley somehow struggled with the idea of Thelema, this is a notion that I've heard many times before.

I just find it highly suspect that someone would be at odds with something they had completely fabricated themselfes, which would be the case IF Crowley made the whole thing up himself, as I suspect he did.

Rn P
Lag



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 06:04 PM
link   


Rabbi Lawrence Kushner says, "The way you say 'I create' in Aramaic (a cognate of Hebrew and the language of both the Talmud and the Zohar) is avara. The way you say "I speak" is davara. And the way you say "I create as I speak" is avara k'davara--Abracadabra."
reply to post by InLightTend
 


Great stuff! Thanks for bringing valuable information to the Thread.
The heritage of Abrahadabra and its roots being Kabalistic is certainly no surprise, and it certainly lends to the notion of Crowley being the creator of the Law, it seems the Law was a well thought out manuscript.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 07:02 PM
link   
reply to post by Baddogma
 



and kudos on posting anything re: Robert A. Wilson because he ruined many perfectly normal lives ...thank whatever powers might exist.


Ah, a beautiful line about RAW. If anyone on this thread hasn't read Robert Anton Wilson's material, he was a giant in passing along "occult" data in well-written language. He loved Crowley, and features him in some of his books, and was able to pass along much of Crowley's teachings in, again, well-written and understandable language. Well, enough rambling about RAW for one post.



new topics
top topics
 
78
<< 1  2  3    5  6 >>

log in

join