The Origins of Aleister Crowley's Thelema, and the possibility that its an elaborate hoax.

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posted on Apr, 20 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by AuranVector
 


Devil worship? Pan, maybe. A wise man (ya, a wise guy) I know or read or something said that the best occultists and conscisousness adherents/students love Crowley, and the worst occultists and consciousness adherents/students love Crowley. For some, stupid is as stupid perceives, and Crowley would likely have kicked them out of his place with the two boots on his feet and a grin on his face.
edit on 20-4-2012 by Aleister because: comma




posted on Apr, 20 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by Aleister
reply to post by AuranVector
 


Devil worship? Pan, maybe. A wise man (ya, a wise guy) I know or read or something said that the best occultists and conscisousness adherents/students love Crowley, and the worst occultists and consciousness adherents/students love Crowley. For some, stupid is as stupid perceives, and Crowley would likely have kicked them out of his place with the two boots on his feet and a grin on his face.
edit on 20-4-2012 by Aleister because: comma


Yes, when Christianity took over the old gods were turned into "devils" -- the goat-footed, horned Pan fit the bill nicely.

Which is why I said:

Devil worship? That depends on how you define "devil". One person's devil can be another person's god.

Crowley loved to shock people -- it was the perennial adolescent in him. And he especially loved to tweak the noses of Christians.

III:51 “With my Hawk’s head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross.”

I find this line very interesting. As you know, Horus was the Hawk or Falcon headed god, son of Isis & Osiris (usually). Among other things, sky god Horus was also the god of war & hunting. One of the stories about Horus is that his left eye (the Moon) had been gouged out.

So here we have the old god, Horus, giving the injury he suffered to the new God, Jesus.



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 06:34 AM
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reply to post by AuranVector
 


Yep, Crowley had the fun gene. And his writings seem to contain the kind of deep multi-layered information you talk about, and what better way to do that is use the God memes to double-back and bite the memers. Is there a college class on AC's writings? If not, of course, there should be. If anyone at Oxford listening?



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by lokdog
reply to post by AliceBlackman
 


Why does my true will have to make me cry?


Actually you might just get a huge belly laugh, with the feeling of knowing...but most I believe have denied themselves and their path for so long that the epiphany will release huge emotion, usually manifest by tears.



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by AliceBlackman

Originally posted by lokdog
reply to post by AliceBlackman
 


Why does my true will have to make me cry?


Actually you might just get a huge belly laugh, with the feeling of knowing...but most I believe have denied themselves and their path for so long that the epiphany will release huge emotion, usually manifest by tears.



Perhaps it would be to find the innocent intelligence that looked at the world when you were young, before it was moulded by your environment into conformity, correctness, repression, religious and cultural indoctrination, etc - all those fun things that we have to compromise ourselves with because we are a social animal.
Those things are't necessarily wrong, but they can lead us down paths we wouldn't choose and that leave our original nature untapped. If we could have a vision of how to start again and fresh, we should take that opportunity.
Putting it in those terms (my interpretation only), It has similarities to zen's focus on finding your original nature, before you were a 'self'.
That's what the Great Work means to me anyway.



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by delusion
 


yes the Fool is in the process of self actualisation.

Know naught! All ways are lawful to innocense. Pure folly is the key to initiation. Silence breaks into rapture. Be neither man nor woman, but both in one. Be silent, babe in the egg of blue, that thoust mayest grow to bear the lance and grail! Wander alone and sing! In the King's palace his daughter awaits thee.

www.flickr.com...



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by Aleister
reply to post by AuranVector
 


Yep, Crowley had the fun gene. And his writings seem to contain the kind of deep multi-layered information you talk about, and what better way to do that is use the God memes to double-back and bite the memers. Is there a college class on AC's writings? If not, of course, there should be. If anyone at Oxford listening?



Aleister: “Is there a college class on AC's writings? If not, of course, there should be. If anyone at Oxford listening?”

Your mentioning Oxford reminded me of an odd coincidence I experienced:

More than 20 years ago, I was in Cambridge, England (as a tourist). I fell in love with Cambridge – it’s a charming town with an English “village” feel. The various University buildings are beautiful – neatly kept grounds, magnificent architecture. If only ….

(IMHO Cambridge had more charm than Oxford. Oxford had a colder, more “citified” vibe.)

So I was in a Cambridge boutique (many interesting restaurants & boutiques there) looking for some souvenir. I chose two copies of colored lithographs. The originals must have been early Victorian (I’m guessing by the women’s clothing). These prints did not have any particular meaning to me at the time. I just thought they would look good on my walls.

One is entitled “The Great Court, Trinity College” and the other is “Trinity Hall from the Garden”.

Fast forward some years and I discover that Trinity College at Cambridge was Aleister Crowley’s old school.

It’s one of those oddball coincidences, like the number 11. (There are 30+ colleges at Cambridge.)

When I was very young I had read Crowley’s “Confessions…” – but dismissed Crowley as a nasty creep. I had no conscious memory that Crowley had attended Cambridge – muchless Trinity College.

But back to your question:

As for anyone in the “Oxbridge” crowd taking “The Book of the Law” seriously IN PUBLIC – he would be foolhardy to do so.

That’s not to say there aren’t closeted Thelemites at both universities, but I think for someone who needs to maintain a “respectable” façade for professional reasons, “coming out” would be a bad idea. I suspect neither University would be amused.

It would be much more acceptable to come out as a homosexual than a Thelemite.

Of course, I could be wrong. But I would really be surprised.

If any open discussion of Crowley & “The Book of the Law” were allowed in class, it would probably be only to debunk Crowley as a charlatan and the Liber Legis as a fraud.

As for Crowley's poetry, I don't think the Establishment Literati hold it in high esteem -- "Victorian purple prose".

I suspect the reason this thread has received so many Stars & Flags is because most just keyed in on the words “Crowley Hoax” and didn’t even bother to read the OP, much less the thread.
edit on 21-4-2012 by AuranVector because: to add info



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by AuranVector
 


When one mentions the word “Abrasax” there are oftentimes, conflicting views which arise. To some he was seen as a God, to others as a demon, and yet to others as an amalgamation of both.

Yes agreed, better anything than admit to Thelema...



posted on Apr, 23 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by Lagrimas
reply to post by TiM3LoRd
 


Understanding thelema is not easy. I'm sorry you felt it was a difficult read, there is no jargon really.
Thanks for trying.


What? Don't think for a second that your self appointed association with the Rosicrucians entitles you to determine what is and is not "jargon".

Nearly all of Crowley's work is jargon, intentionally confusing and misleading. Dupes such as yourself are the intended victim, and if any credit must be due to Crowley, it should be in his success in luring the desperately naive.



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 07:29 AM
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reply to post by Aleister
 


I for one would love to go back to uni and do a masters in Crowley.
Nice thought !



posted on Apr, 24 2012 @ 07:37 AM
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reply to post by yourignoranceisbliss
 


Well if you mean that there is a particular specialist language associated with studying Thelema then I agree somewhat, but these terminologies mainly rise out of Kabbalistic knowledge, and other religious/philosphy based forms of writing/knowledge.

As such in order to delve in to one of Crowleys books, it is crucial to first have a background knowledge in certain things. That is why the reading list for study in the A.'.A.'. is set out as it is, to give the aspirant the knowledge necessary to progress up through the ranks.

If you took the time to do the background reading on kabbala and the like, you would surely understand what Crowley was talking about in his books.
(your ignorance is obvious)
Rice n Peace.
edit on 24-4-2012 by Lagrimas because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 07:09 AM
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reply to post by AuranVector
 


This is somewhat true. In fact, ill admit that even if you read my thread in its entirety and are absolutely convinced Crowley did the hoax, then you are indeed falling folly to the sephira of knowledge, which if is not ballanced with wisdom is as useless as a hainz manual to someone whos never lifted a bonnet.

My 'story' relies on using half baked coincidences and circumstancial evidences, that can never conclusively prove or disprove the reception of the law or the provenance of the stele or the translations.

My intent was to cause a stir and I knew all this stuff and knew the story might get some flags, and i felt jolly and so I set a trap, mischievously, like ac would have. I performed my Will to gain flags and it felt good.

And, I still could be correct.
Just because someone knows much truth, doesn't mean they are always truthful.



posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 10:42 AM
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All occult ceremonies are made up by men: and still are. People still make ceremonies for druidry, paganism, probably satanism and everything else. The thing is that if you put magic into 2 categories
professionals and amateurs.You will find that the famous occultists would be classed as amateurs. It is like all other serious amateur magic long ceremonial and reminiscent of the rules from dungeons and dragons. Professional magic was like the traditional witchcraft or magic of the cunning folk: simple but powerful.These people were paid to do magic daily of all types. They had to do it and stay sane.

The ceremonial magic if done too much causes problems. This is why the Crowley's and such like generally went mad and at the end of their lives was quite miserable. It destroyed their lives. The modern day wiccan magic is more like that ceremonial than the traditional. I do not want people to be insulted by this. But some magic can be practiced more than others. The unstable elements that are added in ceremonial magic means that it is a stretch on people.

Also it should be noted that most famous occultists were part conman. It is simply easier to sell a ceremony if you say it came from somewhere mysterious. Remember all the old books and grimoires were wrote by someone.

I work as an occult consultant and have removed cursed from voodoo, witches, warlocks and just about every type. But the methods I use are simple. There is not really ceremony. Actually sometimes there ceremonies if badly made can make people more vulnerable.This is because most add volatile unstable elements.Then they get into the dungeon and dragon problem: how do I counter this. Also there is the possibility of the systems un-winnable situation. What do I do if he does the ceremony in the most powerful astrological event in a lifetime with perfect situations? Once built up in this system you would then lose. So people build in weaknesses into things.

I could write ceremonies until the cow comes home. But would only do if they served an actual purpose.What I do not understand is the trust people put in Crowley a man of known bad character. Why would you want to trust doing a ceremony designed by Alisteir Crowley: a child abusing satanist, and trust that he did not build a trap in? I would say think twice before doing any ceremony designed by anyone you do not trust.

Crowley was a noted bad man and such people lie and many worse things.



edit on 20-3-2013 by werewolf99 because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-3-2013 by werewolf99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by AuranVector

Originally posted by Aleister
reply to post by AuranVector
 


Yep, Crowley had the fun gene. And his writings seem to contain the kind of deep multi-layered information you talk about, and what better way to do that is use the God memes to double-back and bite the memers. Is there a college class on AC's writings? If not, of course, there should be. If anyone at Oxford listening?



Aleister: “Is there a college class on AC's writings? If not, of course, there should be. If anyone at Oxford listening?”

Your mentioning Oxford reminded me of an odd coincidence I experienced:

More than 20 years ago, I was in Cambridge, England (as a tourist). I fell in love with Cambridge – it’s a charming town with an English “village” feel. The various University buildings are beautiful – neatly kept grounds, magnificent architecture. If only ….

(IMHO Cambridge had more charm than Oxford. Oxford had a colder, more “citified” vibe.)

So I was in a Cambridge boutique (many interesting restaurants & boutiques there) looking for some souvenir. I chose two copies of colored lithographs. The originals must have been early Victorian (I’m guessing by the women’s clothing). These prints did not have any particular meaning to me at the time. I just thought they would look good on my walls.

One is entitled “The Great Court, Trinity College” and the other is “Trinity Hall from the Garden”.

Fast forward some years and I discover that Trinity College at Cambridge was Aleister Crowley’s old school.

It’s one of those oddball coincidences, like the number 11. (There are 30+ colleges at Cambridge.)

When I was very young I had read Crowley’s “Confessions…” – but dismissed Crowley as a nasty creep. I had no conscious memory that Crowley had attended Cambridge – muchless Trinity College.

But back to your question:

As for anyone in the “Oxbridge” crowd taking “The Book of the Law” seriously IN PUBLIC – he would be foolhardy to do so.

That’s not to say there aren’t closeted Thelemites at both universities, but I think for someone who needs to maintain a “respectable” façade for professional reasons, “coming out” would be a bad idea. I suspect neither University would be amused.

It would be much more acceptable to come out as a homosexual than a Thelemite.

Of course, I could be wrong. But I would really be surprised.

If any open discussion of Crowley & “The Book of the Law” were allowed in class, it would probably be only to debunk Crowley as a charlatan and the Liber Legis as a fraud.

As for Crowley's poetry, I don't think the Establishment Literati hold it in high esteem -- "Victorian purple prose".

I suspect the reason this thread has received so many Stars & Flags is because most just keyed in on the words “Crowley Hoax” and didn’t even bother to read the OP, much less the thread.
edit on 21-4-2012 by AuranVector because: to add info


Well firstly id like to thank EVERYONE that has contributed to this thread, including yourself.
I just came on ATS to start a new thread and saw my thread is right at the top of the list, which pleasantly surprised me! So thanks everyone for keeping it alive!!

I think your above comment about why it recieved stars end flags is slightly rude towards the broader ATS membership, people have in their replies clearly demonstrated an interest in this thread and its insights in to the origins of Thelema and its subsequent effect on the secret society Ordo Templi Orientis, through its acceptance of the book of the law.

I hope this thread did something which many other threads in secret society forum don't do and thats to discuss real relevant information that relates to a possible conspiracy within a secret society's main body of belief.


Happy spring Equinox/ thelemic new year to one and all. Invoke horus! And thanks again for taking the time to contribute.
Lag.

edit on 20-3-2013 by Lagrimas because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 06:23 PM
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Why end a popular thread? Once they start they generally run and run, so long as people want it to? I do think that it is true that some people love ceremony more than others. People should be careful before really just moving to another religion. Also to the people who think there should be Crowley courses. I would ask why? Does everything have to have a degree and course.The real problem is that some people like conplexity and believe that therefore it must be more powerful. There is one thing true and that is that Crowley would know that if people followed him he would be more powerful. This is the same reason many people design ceremonies and rituals today: so that the followers would give them power.

Also he is feared. This the true meaning of much voodoo ritual. The complex rituals an ceremonies are supposed scare the other people. Also anyone cursed: which usually to give them a power boost through your belief that they are more powerful than they are.If you remove that and much voodoo is not as powerful as one may suppose. I say this having lifted and cursed by voodood rituals. There was a particularly busy month: this stuff tends to happen in trends. A lot of curses on people seem to happen with the same types all at once. In many different places.

For instance there was a little while back a lot of people claiming chi vampirism was effecting them.I know this from people contacting me at the same time.

Just an opinion.





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