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Did the Christians lie about Jesus Resurrection? Jesus did not die by Crucifiction!

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posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



Waaay off topic my friend....

Creationism and evolution co-exist... Christians just have to move the idea back a few billion years... evolution is a slow process.... Not instantaineous as the bible suggests.


I totally agree about it being off topic, I suggested we not start a while ago because it's a massive rabbit trail. And I completely disagree with Liberal Christians, evolution is inconsistent with Genesis 3. There couldn't be billions of years of death and natural selection if death was a result of the fall from Genesis 3.




posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 



There was no war in heaven ( in my humble opinion)...


Do you think the angels kicked out went peacefully? It doesn't say they were politely asked to leave friend.



You're missing the point here...

Why would they do anything to get themselves kicked out of "heaven"...?

This of course is "assuming" Angels are beings of "higher intelligence"... perhaps even an evolved being....

This is a book written by man in an attempt to discribe something they do not understand...

Its illogical that an "angel" would disobey or do anything to "piss off" the one who "can kill the body and the soul"...




posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



This is truth... but its not "another place"... you return to the physical world for another go... because said person has not learned what it takes to live as God wants...


If that were the case Jesus never would have had to die for our sins, He could have stayed on the throne. And secondly, how can i pay off my sin debt to the Father is I reincarnate and add new sins to my former life's sins? You already stated a man cannot be perfect to inherit eternal life himself.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



Why would they do anything to get themselves kicked out of "heaven"...?


Rebellion. Following their leader Lucifer. And He was kicked out because of pride.

"I will be like the Most High"

I don't really know why. It doesn't matter to me really. I can't fathom why Eve would be deceived by the serpent either when her and Adam were clothed in light and walked in the garden with Jesus every day and He only gave them 1 rule.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



If that were the case Jesus never would have had to die for our sins


He didn't have to die for our sins... It was the fathers will... He didn't want to die for anything... he wanted to live and continue on... But this wasn't to be...

He knew he had to die to return... OR... His words meant nothing... nor does the prophecy...

In his words there was Life... litterally... he gave the knowledge of life after death... and proof of it... that is what makes HIS words so powerful...


He could have stayed on the throne.


It was not his kingdom...


And secondly, how can i pay off my sin debt to the Father is I reincarnate and add new sins to my former life's sins?


You owe him everything and nothing... At birth your sins from your previous life are resolved save the worst ones... which will manifest within your lifetime... or even at birth depending on what YOU deserve... that is up to him...


You already stated a man cannot be perfect to inherit eternal life himself.


No i said perfection is attainable... and we already have eternal life...it is Gods Gift...

WE always have and always will...


edit on 10-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 



Why would they do anything to get themselves kicked out of "heaven"...?


Rebellion. Following their leader Lucifer. And He was kicked out because of pride.

"I will be like the Most High"

I don't really know why. It doesn't matter to me really. I can't fathom why Eve would be deceived by the serpent either when her and Adam were clothed in light and walked in the garden with Jesus every day and He only gave them 1 rule.


See what i mean... it makes no sense...

Now logically... IF satan exists, he has a job his creator gave him... he is the deciever and his position is to test us... as he did Jesus

Tempt us to turn from the creator... correct?


edit on 10-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 



Waaay off topic my friend....

Creationism and evolution co-exist... Christians just have to move the idea back a few billion years... evolution is a slow process.... Not instantaineous as the bible suggests.


I totally agree about it being off topic, I suggested we not start a while ago because it's a massive rabbit trail. And I completely disagree with Liberal Christians, evolution is inconsistent with Genesis 3. There couldn't be billions of years of death and natural selection if death was a result of the fall from Genesis 3.


It just all goes to show that Christians could not hold an organzed Forum discussion on anything without breaking into every excuse under the Sun to drift off discussion's target theme, generally with the intentions of derailing the entire theme.

Christians are inherently destructive of logic and order, and maintain an extreme level of ignorance and trumped up non-sense from organized religion's marrage to Satan.

Such disorder shows these are illiterate Beasts, the PAC of the anti-Christs. imho

Else, if there were intelligent people, staying on topic would be first nature.


Perhaps it is time for the US to ban religion because it promotes what appears to be total non-sense. imho

The Christian Religion makes the US society stupid, and drolls out pure illiterate concepts not worthy of being considered intelligent.


edit on 10-4-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Time for the US to ban religion




posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



If that were the case Jesus never would have had to die for our sins


It was the fathers will... He didn't want to die for anything... he wanted to live and continue on... But this wasn't to be...


What did Jesus say to the apostles minutes after He had transformed a whore into an evangelist with one conversation?

"Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of Him that sent me, and to finish His work."

Or how about this:

"For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine own will, but the will of Him that sent Me."


Which words of Jesus did you mean when you told people to only believe and trust what He said in the Bible. I'm having a hard time finding one's you agree with when you post.



He could have stayed on the throne.


It was not his kingdom...


"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."



And secondly, how can i pay off my sin debt to the Father is I reincarnate and add new sins to my former life's sins?
[

You owe him everything and nothing... At birth your sins from your previous life are resolved save the worst ones... which will manifest within your lifetime... or even at birth depending on what YOU deserve... that is up to him...


Almost right, I owe Him everything and HE owes me nothing. Sorry, I have seen firsthand what countries the believe in reincarnation and karma do. When Christians go into these nations they see squalor everywhere, children eating from garbage cans, no one will help a soul out because they think if they are having a difficult life they are working off karma from a past life and do not want to interfere with another person's ascension.

It's absolutely disgusting. Christians go into those places and help people, not New Agers and Bhuddists and Hindus.



You already stated a man cannot be perfect to inherit eternal life himself.


No i said perfection is attainable... and we already have eternal life...it is Gods Gift...

WE always have and always will...



When I say eternal life you know I'm not speaking in a general sense, so please don't answer me in a general sense. I know the spirit and soul live eternally. I meant the context Jesus used the term, to be eternally present with the Father in heaven. And if perfection is attainable Christ would have said that. He didn't attain it, HE was perfect sinless Lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world.

"No man comes to the Father but by Me."


edit on 10-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 



Why would they do anything to get themselves kicked out of "heaven"...?


Rebellion. Following their leader Lucifer. And He was kicked out because of pride.

"I will be like the Most High"

I don't really know why. It doesn't matter to me really. I can't fathom why Eve would be deceived by the serpent either when her and Adam were clothed in light and walked in the garden with Jesus every day and He only gave them 1 rule.


See what i mean... it makes no sense...


It doesn't make sense, neither does it make sense that Peter denied Christ, or that the Pharisees didn't see Him as the Messiah, it doesn't make sense that a Man raised Himself from the dead, if any of it made sense none of us would have FAITH. And without faith we cannot please God.


Now logically... IF satan exists, he has a job his creator gave him... he is the deciever and his position is to test us... as he did Jesus


That's not logical for one, that's a false dichotomy fallacy and for two just because God is always 100 steps ahead of satan's plans doesn't mean God gave him that job. It means He thwarts everything the devil does.


Tempt us to turn from the creator... correct?



I agree there, really to deceive us with temptations. But it's not the "job" God gave him like he is some sort of faithful servant always doing the Father's will like His Son Jesus. He hates God and hates you and I because we are created in God's image and likeness and we are thrilled to do his old job, praise and worship leader in heaven.


edit on 10-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 



It just all goes to show that Christians could not hold an organzed Forum discussion on anything without breaking into every excuse under the Sun to drift off discussion's target theme, generally with the intentions of derailing the entire theme.


Right... And to implement that means I state a few times that I don't want to address something that would take the thread off topic and to start a new thread with that new theme in mind.




Christians are inherently destructive of logic and order, and maintain an extreme level of ignorance and trumped up non-sense from organized religion's marrage to Satan.




You're constantly quoting Luciferians in this very thread. Are you all the way there dude?



edit on 10-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



What did Jesus say to the apostles minutes after He had transformed a whore into an evangelist with one conversation?

"Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of Him that sent me, and to finish His work."

Or how about this:

"For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine own will, but the will of Him that sent Me."


Which words of Jesus did you mean when you told people to only believe and trust what He said in the Bible. I'm having a hard time finding one's you agree with when you post.


I don't quote exclusively from the bible... as a matter of fact i try to avoid using it when posting unless its necessary... i prefer to use my own words.

You know he begged the father to "take this cup from me"...


Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."



Correct... thats what i said...


Almost right, I owe Him everything and HE owes me nothing. Sorry, I have seen firsthand what countries the believe in reincarnation and karma do. When Christians go into these nations they see squalor everywhere, children eating from garbage cans, no one will help a soul out because they think if they are having a difficult life they are working off karma from a past life and do not want to interfere with another person's ascension.


Rubbish...

The poor are all over the world not just in these "not christian" nations... It has nothing to do with working off their Karma... thats just a load.

More like the people are oppressed by their governments... Christians go into these nations preaching the book... when what they need is not religion.... they need the basic necessities that wealthier nations SHOULD provide... its not a religious problem its a government problem....


It's absolutely disgusting. Christians go into those places and help people, not New Agers and Bhuddists and Hindus.


And since when is this discussion about who is out to save the world anyways?

Most of those groups you mentioned realize that what will be will be...


When I say eternal life you know I'm not speaking in a general sense, so please don't answer me in a general sense. I know the spirit and soul live eternally. I meant the context Jesus used the term, to be eternally present with the Father in heaven. And if perfection is attainable Christ would have said that. He didn't attain it, HE was perfect sinless Lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world.


Did he not say "be perfect like your father in heaven is perfect"?

And again... HOW does his death take away the sin of the world?


It doesn't make sense, neither does it make sense that Peter denied Christ, or that the Pharisees didn't see Him as the Messiah, it doesn't make sense that a Man raised Himself from the dead, if any of it made sense none of us would have FAITH. And without faith we cannot please God.


So you admit the bible makes little sense in some cases so you stick to "faith"?

He didn't raise himself... God did... And not Jesus himself... your God in the flesh...

Peter denied him out of fear... that is obvious... some rock eh.

IF you read his words, his life gives faith... not his death.


That's not logical for one, that's a false dichotomy fallacy and for two just because God is always 100 steps ahead of satan's plans doesn't mean God gave him that job. It means He thwarts everything the devil does.


I guess thats faith too right?

also assuming "the devil" exists.... Not my thing honestly


I agree there, really to deceive us with temptations. But it's not the "job" God gave him like he is some sort of faithful servant always doing the Father's will like His Son Jesus. He hates God and hates you and I because we are created in God's image and likeness and we are thrilled to do his old job, praise and worship leader in heaven.


Speculation... the bible says very little about Satan or lucifer...

And if you look in the "satanic bible" you'll notice it says... Hes the churches best friend, because hes kept them in business.... for so many years...

Taking advantage of peoples fear of the unknown for conversion...

You only know God hates by the OT... and paul... I believe God is above such petty things... like hate, and jellousy....

You don't know that God hates satan either... or that he even exists....

Personally i believe he is a representation of the material world... nothing more.




posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 01:14 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I don't quote exclusively from the bible... as a matter of fact i try to avoid using it when posting unless its necessary...


Does "necessary" mean positionally supportive?


You know he begged the father to "take this cup from me"...


Study the Passover, it was the cup of wrath. His Father's will was for Him to die for the sins of the world, just as He says in Isaiah 52:7-53. And Jesus said numerous times He was there to do that, and had come to Jerusalem "for this hour".

And said He was there to do the will of His Father, and "to finish it". Then before giving up the ghost He said "It is finished!"



Correct... thats what i said..


I asked you what was the purpose for Him leaving His throne in heaven then. Then you said it wasn't His kingdom. Then I showed that He said it was His kingdom He came down from. Yes it was His kingdom, and it was His throne.

So why did He leave His throne if man could work out their own salvation apart from Him incarnating as a man to die?



Rubbish...


If you don't think so travel sometime to one of these nations. And I never denied there wasn't poor in other countries. I'm talking about the poor in countries dominated by reincarnation doctrine. Christians don't go over there with Jack Chick tracts and drop them over the land from airplane like Nazi propaganda.

We go there with blankets, food, water, clothing, medicine, we build shelters, schools, houses, lay water lines, et cetra, et ceta, et cetera. You have absolutely no clue whatsoever what you're talking about.



And since when is this discussion about who is out to save the world anyways?


It's not about saving the world, the context is what the doctrine of reincarnation does to the actions of the people who live in those nations. No one wants to help out a suffering person for fear of prolonging their ascension. and if one does help out it's inconsistent with their stated beliefs.

Giving these people a helping hand, showing them the hands and feet of Jesus Christ is the catalyst for them wanting to accept Christ. Seeing His love in His ambassadors.



Did he not say "be perfect like your father in heaven is perfect"?


Didn't we go over this already? He wasn't saying it's possible to be perfect. The man asked what he himself could or had to do to inherit eternal life (in heaven in the presence of God).

Apart from the redeeming grace of God one does need to be perfect to inherit eternal life. (in heaven in the presence of God) I strongly suggest plan B. If you've never once made a mistake, keep it up till you die. Then you can bump Jesus off the throne when you get there.


And again... HOW does his death take away the sin of the world?


What did the people have to do in the brass serpent account to live from the serpent bites? Jesus told the Pharisee that was a picture of Him.



So you admit the bible makes little sense in some cases so you stick to "faith"?


Did it make sense to Abraham for God to tell him to sacrifice his son of the promise? Nope. That's why his faith counted for righteousness. God had already promised him Issac would birth a great nation of people. Abraham knew if he killed him God would have to raise him from the dead. Abraham trusted God's promise to him earlier.


He didn't raise himself... God did... And not Jesus himself... your God in the flesh...


I said that on purpose. Depends on which verse you read:

The Father: (Rom 6:4, Acts 3:26, I Thes 1:10)
The Son: (John 2:19-21, 10:17-18),
The Spirit: (Rom 8:11) or
God: (Heb 13:20,Acts13:30,17:31)

Trinity +1


Peter denied him out of fear... that is obvious... some rock eh.


I'm not Catholic bro. In the Greek Jesus calls Peter a "petras", a feminine name meaning a tiny pebble. And Jesus said HE (Jesus) would build HIS (Jesus) church.



Speculation... the bible says very little about Satan or lucifer...


It's not speculation, Lucifer isn't faithfully doing the will of God at all times.


And if you look in the "satanic bible"


Why? Jesus already said he is the "father of lies".
So whatever that book says take the opposite position.


Taking advantage of peoples fear of the unknown for conversion.


God's goodness leads us to repentance.


You only know God hates by the OT... and paul... I believe God is above such petty things...


Impossible for Him to be Holy and Righteous and NOT hate sin and wickedness.


You don't know that God hates satan either... or that he even exists....


Get saved someday and start radically serving Jesus Christ, you'll find out how real he is very quickly.



edit on 11-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Does "necessary" mean positionally supportive?


I would not post it if it wasn't...


Study the Passover, it was the cup of wrath. His Father's will was for Him to die for the sins of the world, just as He says in Isaiah 52:7-53. And Jesus said numerous times He was there to do that, and had come to Jerusalem "for this hour".

And said He was there to do the will of His Father, and "to finish it". Then before giving up the ghost He said "It is finished!"


Whos Wrath?

I know the passover story... And as i've said it WAS the Fathers will that he die.... Im saying that dying is NOT what he wanted to do... he only excepted that it was necessary...


I asked you what was the purpose for Him leaving His throne in heaven then. Then you said it wasn't His kingdom. Then I showed that He said it was His kingdom He came down from. Yes it was His kingdom, and it was His throne.


I misunderstood... I thought you meant his throne on earth...


So why did He leave His throne if man could work out their own salvation apart from Him incarnating as a man to die?


As i've said, it was necessary... The people were lost... attempting to adhear to impossible man made rules... He needed to clairify Gods rules once and for all... which never changed in the first place... They were simply misunderstood... as they still are to this day...

His death was only necessary because he had to return... but his life was the important part... Not his death...


If you don't think so travel sometime to one of these nations. And I never denied there wasn't poor in other countries. I'm talking about the poor in countries dominated by reincarnation doctrine. Christians don't go over there with Jack Chick tracts and drop them over the land from airplane like Nazi propaganda.

We go there with blankets, food, water, clothing, medicine, we build shelters, schools, houses, lay water lines, et cetra, et ceta, et cetera. You have absolutely no clue whatsoever what you're talking about.


Im not denying that Christians go on missions and help other countries... But this idea that the state of their country is because of what you call "reincarnation doctrine" is nonsense...

That same doctrine you speak of also says we should help our fellow man... It says nothing about not helping someone because you'll prevent their ascension...

That my friend... is straight Bullsh!t...

This compassion happens when one feels sorry with someone, and one feels an urge to help.
The near enemy is pity, which keeps other at a distance, and does not urge one to help.
The opposite is wanting others to suffer, or cruelty.
A result which one needs to avoid is sentimentality.
Compassion thus refers to an unselfish, de-tached emotion which gives one a sense of urgency in wanting to help others. From a Buddhist perspective, helping others to reduce their physical or mental suffering is very good, but the ultimate goal is to extinguish all suffering by stopping the process of rebirth and the suffering that automatically comes with living by reaching enlightenment


It's not about saving the world, the context is what the doctrine of reincarnation does to the actions of the people who live in those nations. No one wants to help out a suffering person for fear of prolonging their ascension. and if one does help out it's inconsistent with their stated beliefs.


Please refer to the above post for an answer to said BS...


Giving these people a helping hand, showing them the hands and feet of Jesus Christ is the catalyst for them wanting to accept Christ. Seeing His love in His ambassadors.


Again this isn't a religious problem... instead of going to the people why don't Christians try going to their leaders... See if THEY can see the love you represent through the money they make from exploiting their people... While you're at it you could give it a try here at home as well...


Didn't we go over this already? He wasn't saying it's possible to be perfect. The man asked what he himself could or had to do to inherit eternal life (in heaven in the presence of God).

Apart from the redeeming grace of God one does need to be perfect to inherit eternal life. (in heaven in the presence of God) I strongly suggest plan B. If you've never once made a mistake, keep it up till you die. Then you can bump Jesus off the throne when you get there.


one does not "inherit" eternal life... it is already given...

And i have no agenda of bumping anyone off of any throne... i am who i am... nothing more.


What did the people have to do in the brass serpent account to live from the serpent bites? Jesus told the Pharisee that was a picture of Him.


explain with references please... im sure we've been over this


I said that on purpose. Depends on which verse you read:

The Father:
The Son: (John 2:19-21, 10:17-18),
The Spirit: (Rom 8:11) or
God: (Heb 13:20,Acts13:30,17:31)

Trinity +1



(Rom 6:4, Acts 3:26, I Thes 1:10) (Rom 8:11) (Heb 13:20,Acts13:30,17:31)


John 2:19-21, 10:17-18...

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

His power was given to him... not his own...

Trinity fail...



It's not speculation, Lucifer isn't faithfully doing the will of God at all times.



And you know this... how?


Impossible for Him to be Holy and Righteous and NOT hate sin and wickedness.


He created the light and the dark... I believe God would be indifferent to sin and wickedness as you can clearly see all over the world...

Indifferent because either way... all will face him...


Get saved someday and start radically serving Jesus Christ, you'll find out how real he is very quickly.


No need...

All will be saved...


edit on 11-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



Whos Wrath?


The Father's. The Father placed all the sins of mankind on His Son and judged them right there at the cross. Think of the Abraham story with Issac, there was no angel of the Lord to stop Him from sacrificing His Son for us. Abraham was acting out prophecy.


And as i've said it WAS the Fathers will that he die.... Im saying that dying is NOT what he wanted to do...


He always desires to do the Father's will, and finish it. He said that was His "meat". If it was the Father's will it was also His will. That "cup" wasn't the cross.


I misunderstood... I thought you meant his throne on earth...


No worries, probably my fault.


But this idea that the state of their country is because of what you call "reincarnation doctrine" is nonsense...

That same doctrine you speak of also says we should help our fellow man... It says nothing about not helping someone because you'll prevent their ascension...


I also said that if anyone acts contrary to that, or does help a fellow person then their beliefs are internally inconsistent.


Please refer to the above post for an answer to said BS...


Calm down, I'm just attacking one of your idols, not you friend.


one does not "inherit" eternal life... it is already given..


Part one is right, part two is not. And I'm not talking as a matter of Physics, I'm talking about eternal life in God's Kingdom. I know all spirits are eternal and cannot be destroyed.


And i have no agenda of bumping anyone off of any throne... i am who i am... nothing more.


Rhetorical bro, it was an illustration. It's an impossibility anyways. That's why plan B is the only viable option.


explain with references please... im sure we've been over this


Book of Numbers chapter 21. Some info to note, brass is the Levitical symbol for judgment, remember silver is for blood? Snakes are the Levitical symbol for sin.

Then read John 3:14.


John 2:19-21, 10:17-18...


Acts wasn't written by Paul. It was written by the same dude that wrote Luke, Titus's brother. And most scholars say Hebrews wasn't either.


And you know this... how?


What did Jesus say? Lucifer doesn't do God's will. Example: If someone gets cancer, is it God's fault? God doesn't have cancer, how can He give someone something He doesn't have?


He created the light and the dark... I believe God would be indifferent to sin and wickedness as you can clearly see all over the world...


You cannot get diamonds unless coal is crushed, wine unless grapes are crushed, fine gold unless it's purified with fire.

Practical example: There is a certain disease where the victim cannot feel pain. That person must have someone with them 24/7 to watch them at all times because they could hurt themselves and never know it. Their parents pray nightly that God will show mercy and allow their child to feel pain.

And you're forgetting this dude satan and his demonic legion, they are the authors of all the pain and suffering, but God uses it to glorify Himself in all situations. Joseph had terrible things happen to him, and was he bitter? Nope, he said "what you meant for evil, God used for good." He saved an entire nation by allowing satan to have Joseph sent into slavery and taken from his father Issac.


No need...


All will not be saved, most will perish in eternal darkness, weeping and gnashing of teeth.

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Many choose the broad way, few the narrow.



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



The Father's. The Father placed all the sins of mankind on His Son and judged them right there at the cross. Think of the Abraham story with Issac, there was no angel of the Lord to stop Him from sacrificing His Son for us. Abraham was acting out prophecy.


Sounds like a licence to sin to me...

what was his judgement?


He always desires to do the Father's will, and finish it. He said that was His "meat". If it was the Father's will it was also His will. That "cup" wasn't the cross.


It can be clearly shown in both stories he did not want to die...

39And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

42Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

Not my will but thine be done... His will was not the same as the father... but he knew it wasn't his choice either way....


I also said that if anyone acts contrary to that, or does help a fellow person then their beliefs are internally inconsistent.


Point being religion has nothing to do with the state of poor countries.... You can't blame their issues on "reincarnation doctrine"...


Calm down, I'm just attacking one of your idols, not you friend.


Im perfectly calm... i was just emphasizing that line of thinking is incorrect... And i have no idols...


Acts wasn't written by Paul. It was written by the same dude that wrote Luke, Titus's brother. And most scholars say Hebrews wasn't either.


I know...

But i only needed the two from john to back my arguement...


What did Jesus say? Lucifer doesn't do God's will. Example: If someone gets cancer, is it God's fault? God doesn't have cancer, how can He give someone something He doesn't have?


So you believe that things like cancer arn't created by Gods will... but things like natural disasters are...

Lucifer gives people cancer?



You cannot get diamonds unless coal is crushed, wine unless grapes are crushed, fine gold unless it's purified with fire.

Practical example: There is a certain disease where the victim cannot feel pain. That person must have someone with them 24/7 to watch them at all times because they could hurt themselves and never know it. Their parents pray nightly that God will show mercy and allow their child to feel pain.


Allow their child to feel pain?


That is hardly practical...


And you're forgetting this dude satan and his demonic legion, they are the authors of all the pain and suffering, but God uses it to glorify Himself in all situations.


So you could say he has a job... following Gods orders...


All will not be saved, most will perish in eternal darkness, weeping and gnashing of teeth.


I disagree...

Evereyone will make the cut... not everyone will be happy with the result.....



"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."


Can't deny that... but there is no destruction.... only rebirth


Theres many paths up the mountain my friend... but one has the best result...

Perhaps the worst of souls are wiped clean... Maybe like a hard disk format... *shrug*


Sorry bro, you can't sell me on the "eternal destruction" thing... People damn themselves... but they get exactly what they deserve...


edit on 11-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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You all appear to be well off the thread's theme and appear to high jack and junk up the theme, as always.

One thing that one observes is that you don't even know the origin of religion is volcanic god issues, as Noah's problems were volcanic issues, and Moses was following Jethro and the Volcanic god of the Midianites.

When you can't even get the origin for god correct all else you tell is worthless dribble.

The Vatican screwed up issues like the Earth is Flat, and the Earth is the center of the Universe and threated to kill truth where it emerged.

You are not different in the failings to take note that the god of Moses was a Volcanic god of Jethro, a totally pagan origin for religion. And the Ark was some of the special effects learned from this Volcano worship.


Making most all your themes those of pagan nonsenese. Just like you can't deal with the issue that Jesus survived and was not god, you also can't deal with the original theme for Moses god and even try to call Jesus a pagan volcano god's name.

Igrnorance for you must be the supreme goal, as you worship extreme ignorance.

But science is replacing organized religions many lies as we speak, and there is nothing in the world that will hold back this greater truth. imho



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



And i have no idols...


You're missing the biggest one. SELF

We all have it, I have to cast mine to the floor daily and break it to pieces.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 



And i have no idols...


You're missing the biggest one. SELF

We all have it, I have to cast mine to the floor daily and break it to pieces.


Nuuuu... LOL

This is ALL i preach my friend... its true though every day is a battle....

Love is selfless... No idol there believe me...




posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Until you see it, it's still there.

We all have it. Me too friend, me too.

Pride isn't a virtue, it's a vice.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


Until you see it, it's still there.

We all have it. Me too friend, me too.

Pride isn't a virtue, it's a vice.


Do not speak to me as if im blind brother... No one can deny the existence of the self...

I do not make an idol of anything including myself...

I know the physical world is an illusion




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